Tuesday, December 10, 2019

816; A Call in the Desert.....

Some economists were like a calling in the desert. In the last three decades of the  20th century we have seen the "victory" of the market economy.
The collapse of the communist systems was only an extra reinforcement to continue on the road of neoliberalism, endless economic growth and consumerism.
Those who were calling in the desert, were heard but mainly ignored. One of them was Amartya Sen.
Amartya Kumar Sen, born 3 November 1933, is an Indian economist and philosopher, who since 1972 has taught and worked in the United Kingdom and the United States.
He stimulated the study of the "welfare economy", that is to say an economy that looks beyond the operation of the market to also investigate the phenomenon of poverty and the concept of "need".
Two ideas from Sen had a broad relevance and both contributed to him winning the Nobel Prize for economic in 1998. 
The first idea consists of the combination of economics and ethics. Sen had observed a curious contradiction: 
many people, who are not poor, are nevertheless interested in the problem of poverty and its approach, 
not because they think it is more productive to tackle poverty, but because poverty is wrong. In other words, individuals often behave ethically by not putting their self-interest first.
In his book "On Ethics and Economics" (1987), Sen cites the well-known game "Prisoners" Dilemma, which Richard Dawkins also discusses in "The Selfish Gene". 
Sen writes that cooperation may be preferable in the evolutionary context, but in the industrial or commercial environment, 
the selfish strategy is theoretically the one that most benefits the individual from that person's point of view. 
But in practice various cooperation strategies are always developed because people have opinions about the rights of other people in addition to their own rights.
They have a sense of community and they want to hold on to that. In other words, people have a generally ethical view of life that is not purely selfish.
He believed that this discovery has consequences for the economic organization of society, the tax system, financial assistance to the poor and the recognition of social needs.
This is strongly against neoliberal philosophies. Take Ayn Rand...what does she hear here....ALTRUISM. That can't be.
Ayn Rand rejects altruism, the view that self-sacrifice is the moral ideal. She argues that the ultimate moral value, for each human individual, is his or her own well-being. 
Since selfishness as she understands it is serious, rational, principled concern with one's own well-being, 
it turns out to be a prerequisite for the attainment of the ultimate moral value. For this reason, Rand believes that selfishness is a virtue.
Or take Charles Murray. Murray, working at the American Enterprise Institute, a right-wing think tank in Washington, D.C., wrote a controversial but well-documented book entitled "Losing Ground" in 1984. 
Murray feels more akin to "popular wisdom" than to the wisdom of intellectuals and social scientists. 
Folk wisdom has three main theses: people respond to positive . 
People do not work particularly hard by themselves and are not particularly moral - in the absence of corrective influences, 
they will avoid working and behave in an amoral manner; people must be responsible for their actions, 
whether they are also responsible in some ultimate philosophical or biochemical sense cannot be a topic of discussion if a society is to function.
This kind of thinking has overshadowed Sen and others, is favorite among lawmakers and has made the market economy a "success".
If I speak for my own country, the Netherlands, the result is after 30 years of liberals in our government, an increasing breakdown of the social sector.
All institutions, that are based on mutual solidarity, on the will to spread and share the costs, based on income,
like healthcare, police and security, education, elderly care, youth Services, show today the right-wing orthodoxy from 1975-1990 as a dead end.
We must recreate post-war society with its social solidity and the strongest shoulders that want to bear the heaviest burdens, 
not out of nostalgia but because this was the more civilized time with social and moral progress that came to an end when the mini-Middle Ages of selfishness, greed and hypocrisy started.
Thank you for your attention....

The Discussion

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:24] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:24] herman Bergson: P.S. Social solidity should be social solidarity :-))
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you think we can go back to social solidarity?
[13:25] Max Chatnoir is offline.
[13:25] herman Bergson: I don't know Beertje
[13:25] PearlsOh: You can't have social solidarity when you have globalism
[13:25] PearlsOh: they work against each other
[13:26] herman Bergson: Maybe so indeed PearlsOh
[13:26] Al Michigan: i heard say  ppl only choosing for their own advantage are easier to govern as ppl that are supporting each other.
[13:26] herman Bergson: You really think so Al???
[13:27] Al Michigan: yes, because ppl only choosing these options are more predictable!
[13:27] herman Bergson: By looking only for your own advantage, might create a lot of enemies and jealous people for you
[13:27] Al Michigan: and easier to manipulate by tax reforming
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Herman
[13:28] PearlsOh: if you lure with with money or the promise of money, capitalism has worn down the ethics/spirit of western countries, it's become its own form of communism, chase money, be a debt slave and work like cattle in the global economy.
[13:29] Al Michigan: yeah!
[13:29] herman Bergson: I still believe that we have to share our resources  with eachother....related to the income you have and what you can afford
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:29] Al Michigan: yeah, i think  so too
[13:30] Al Michigan: but within a group that ism solidair with each other
[13:30] herman Bergson: A problem might be the increasing gap between the rich and the poor an d the fact that the rich control everything...and thence want to keep what they have
[13:30] PearlsOh: I will share but only with people who want the same future as me.  It's a mind game and guilt gaslighting to socially pressure people to share with people who are hostile or opposition of some sort.
[13:32] herman Bergson: It is our democratic system that should help to find a balance in that PearlsOh
[13:32] Al Michigan: yeah , like in holland i have to give money to ppl looking to me with eyes full off hate.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Why would they hate you Al?
[13:33] Al Michigan: no idea, but i am white...
[13:33] Al Michigan: and i  do not look like a total looser.
[13:33] herman Bergson: And those hateful weren't white?
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why should they hate you then?
[13:33] Al Michigan: indeed.
[13:33] Al Michigan: why?
[13:34] herman Bergson: Guess you were in Amsterdam? :-))
[13:34] Al Michigan: more or less, yes
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): with one leg in A'dam?
[13:34] PearlsOh: democracy is a product of sorts though, it's socially engineered by Media, people just buy the lasted garbage they're fed by media and social engineering
[13:34] Al Michigan: i live 10 minutes walk from adam, if i open the window, i hear its traffic
[13:35] herman Bergson: the media are a problem indeed PearsOh
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i live in the Netherlands too, but I haver never seen hate in the eyes of ppl
[13:35] herman Bergson: Neither have I, Beertje...and I am white...you have a nice tan :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I'm as white as a milkbottle
[13:36] herman Bergson: ^_^
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:36] PearlsOh: I don't live in Holland, but I lived in a black suburb for 15 years and with out fail I got called a White  C*nt " in the street about once a week and held up trying to get home at night...  that's hatred
[13:37] herman Bergson: but to get back to the media....the US is governed by Twitter these days for instance
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for obvious reason
[13:37] Al Michigan: indeed, the reasons are obvious
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): White  C*nt " ..what do you mean by that?
[13:37] herman Bergson: Doesn't sound good, PearlsOh
[13:38] herman Bergson: Beertje  :-))))
[13:38] herman Bergson:it meaqns:  Wit kutwijf
[13:38] PearlsOh: mind of I swear, Beertje.. c*nt = cunt
[13:38] PearlsOh: white cunt
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ah ok, we have those too
[13:38] PearlsOh: it was disgusting
[13:38] PearlsOh: hatred
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to me it souds like racism + sexual harassment
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 0 hate yes
[13:38] herman Bergson: yes I can imagine
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): =
[13:39] PearlsOh: racism, men got called it too
[13:39] herman Bergson: But the question here is..is it a minority or a majority phenomenon in your country?
[13:40] herman Bergson: I mean...in the Netherlands we have such individuals too
[13:40] PearlsOh: So why would I support them?  Or want to share with them, and don't say it was only a few of them, it was constant for years and even little kids did it.
[13:40] Al Michigan: yeah , a lot!!
[13:40] Jenny Core (jenny.kaos) is offline.
[13:40] CB Axel: Blacks have a different history in the US than in Europe.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Not really CB
[13:40] Al Michigan: so, herman , why are they acting the same way?
[13:40] Al Michigan: in holland
[13:40] herman Bergson: The black people here from Suriname are also former slaves
[13:41] Al Michigan: but this is also appliieng to white ppl in holland
[13:41] PearlsOh: yeh the common thing is that blacks and whites do not get along, no matter how much the globalists try to force us, we will never get along, because both races are being manipulated
[13:41] CB Axel: Really? Africans were kidnapped from their homelands and forced to live in the Netherlands as farm animals?
[13:41] Al Michigan: no never, herman, so why  are they acting full off hate.
[13:42] PearlsOh: and sold to slavers by blacks in Africa,  when you just blame Whites in America you don't tell the full story.
[13:42] PearlsOh: it is lying by omission
[13:42] CB Axel: That's true, PearlsOh.
[13:42] PearlsOh: and that is social engineering
[13:42] PearlsOh: as it is fed to you all by media
[13:42] PearlsOh: which you obey
[13:42] herman Bergson: They were kidnapped from their homelands and live like farm animals in Suriname
[13:42] PearlsOh: It's happened to all races
[13:43] PearlsOh: this black slavery thing is out of propertion, false and biased media propaganda
[13:43] Al Michigan: take white ppl! the first slaves n usa where white europeans.
[13:43] PearlsOh: and still the guilt hasn't made blacks and whites get a long
[13:43] Al Michigan: indeed!
[13:44] Al Michigan: also if you was born  in those times as a white boy on land off the noble classes, you was their property  your whole life||!!!
[13:44] PearlsOh: because it is false and people underneath, their instinct, they know they're being condescended too and manipulated
[13:44] Al Michigan: you was never  1  minute off your life free.
[13:45] herman Bergson: To be true...this race thing is a weird issue....
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree
[13:45] herman Bergson: we people only differ for 0.1% in DNA from each other.....
[13:45] PearlsOh: it is an dit is taboo to challenge the narrative, and it needs it, it's good you let it be spoken about here
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there are no races even we look different
[13:45] PearlsOh: yes there are races..
[13:45] herman Bergson: there actually are no races...just some physiological differences
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just skin color
[13:46] Al Michigan: sure there are races!!!
[13:46] herman Bergson: No Al....not based on DNA research
[13:46] PearlsOh: no, that's just more lies you've all bought and only since WW2
[13:46] herman Bergson: that shows that we are a huge mix of a lot of origins
[13:46] CB Axel: Cut people open and we're all the same.
[13:46] Al Michigan: But we do not  know much about DNA!, most dna we have , we do not even know what it is doing!!!
[13:46] herman Bergson: Indeed CB
[13:47] Al Michigan: cb axel, that is also not true!
[13:47] Al Michigan: there is a hug different between a monkey  and an ape.
[13:47] CB Axel: How many people have you seen cut open? Where are the differences?
[13:47] Al Michigan: wrong line. there is huge difference between a ape and a human
[13:47] herman Bergson: We are talking about homo Sapiens here Al :-)
[13:47] herman Bergson: quite a mean ape himself ^_^
[13:47] CB Axel: I said people.
[13:47] Al Michigan: what about jews then?
[13:48] PearlsOh: Who told you all this?  There are differences, different races have different diseases, physical assets and fails
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw7FhU-G1_Q )
[13:48] Al Michigan: if all ppl are the same,  it would mean jews are no humans.
[13:48] herman Bergson: What about them, Al.....DNA differs for 0.1% like all other men
[13:48] CB Axel: Good point, PearlsOh
[13:48] Al Michigan: well you can be jewish, only if some dna patterns  were given to  you  along the lines of the women.
[13:49] CB Axel: I don't follow that, AI. If we are all the same then we are all human.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): religion is not a race cause its not genetic
[13:49] PearlsOh: Anyway races and if it is easier for you to understand it as cultures, then fine..  do not get along, are you wanting to keep forcing us, keep the wars going to fund some globalist monsters,
[13:49] herman Bergson: Good point Bejiita
[13:49] Al Michigan: jews are ppl. humans, just like us, but there are dna differences
[13:50] Al Michigan: but that doesn't mean anything.
[13:50] Al Michigan: we do not know  much about dna
[13:50] herman Bergson: Right PearlsOh...it is better to talk about CULTURES....and power politics.....and the fight for resources like oil etc
[13:50] Al Michigan: yes pearl is right!
[13:50] Laila Schuman: YES
[13:50] PearlsOh: Why Herman, race and culture are same thing
[13:50] PearlsOh: race isn't a dirty wird
[13:51] herman Bergson: It is biologically not defendable...
[13:51] PearlsOh: we need to desensitized from the propaganda and fear in us it's caused and talk about our races
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: what is fearful about it?
[13:52] Al Michigan: yeah tell me!
[13:52] herman Bergson: DNA research has shown that we all come from Africa, to begin with....
[13:52] PearlsOh: no everyone agrees with that herman, I am my own race.. you can't ever take that from me, I will never be another race or no race.
[13:52] Al Michigan: i do not believe that herman
[13:52] herman Bergson: The human DNA is form ONE source....
[13:52] Laila Schuman: yes
[13:52] PearlsOh: that we need to soften it to culture, that people are scared it is racist to talk about race
[13:52] CB Axel: My race is human. I am of the human race, and that's it.
[13:52] PearlsOh: how can it be?
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: the problem starts when you want to use your race "to get something out of it"
[13:53] herman Bergson: No PearlOh...it is not about racism....because racism isn't a biological but a cultural phenomenon
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: thats where the fear is rooted
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:54] herman Bergson: So it is politics, Ciska....culture
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: its in the end about power
[13:54] Al Michigan: if i cut open a pig, i smell  a human. If i cut open a monkey i smell some thing completely different and it looks different as well, so there ain't no link between an ape and a human.
[13:54] CB Axel: So you don't believe in evolution?
[13:54] PearlsOh: saying your one global race is racism, you are, and I don't know if you realize ti or not, but racially demeaning everyone who is their actual race.
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): have you ever opened a monkey All?
[13:54] PearlsOh: very good point Al
[13:54] herman Bergson: I guess you don't acceptDarwins findings, Al?
[13:55] Al Michigan: no i do not accept one word off his theories.
[13:55] PearlsOh: This is propaganda after ww2 this globalist hype
[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: well why not be your race - as long as you do not want to get something extrra out of it Pearl? i'm sure no one cares.
[13:55] CB Axel: Evolution is post WW2 propaganda?
[13:55] Laila Schuman: do you actually know his theories, AI
[13:56] herman Bergson: Indeed Ciska....
[13:56] Laila Schuman: and data to counteract them
[13:56] herman Bergson: It is like claiming I am a Dutchman, you are a German or Austrian....
[13:56] PearlsOh: this spin on I tis yes, this isn't science it is globalist propaganda, of course we're not all the same one race, look at the differences..
[13:56] Al Michigan: yes, they prove how one bird became an eagle and the other an owl. they do not explain how we  humans started to be here.
[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: well of course there is science
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: you do not have to be interessted in it
[13:57] PearlsOh: who's science?
[13:57] Laila Schuman: and dinosaurs became birds
[13:57] herman Bergson: we're not of the same culture, I'd say PearlsOh :-)
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: and is must not threaten you
[13:57] PearlsOh: it's like the global warming science, there's scientists on both sides of argument, but one side is shunned and silenced,
[13:57] CB Axel: What science are you looking at?
[13:57] Al Michigan: but see, in this era, science is broken down ,
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if I listen to you all, I think it's hard to live together and take care to each other
[13:57] PearlsOh: that's not how science is supposed to work
[13:57] Al Michigan: no one can believe them anymore.
[13:58] Laila Schuman: are you (anyone) actually friends with a person of another race?
[13:58] Laila Schuman: and what did you learn... or not.... in that friendship
[13:58] Ciska Riverstone: how is science supposed to work? -all of our history science differentiated and by that brought progress...
[13:58] herman Bergson: Look at it from the other side, Beeertje....we are able to have a decent conversation here yet
[13:59] Al Michigan: our government is actually saying to   study groups that do research for the government, what the outcomes must be!!! just like when one Adolf told the scientist to prove the whites were superior.
[13:59] PearlsOh: scroll back to my post on living in a black suburb for 15 years, Laila
[13:59] Laila Schuman: or the oil and gas companies that said there was no climate change
[13:59] Laila Schuman: follow the money
[14:00] Laila Schuman: I trust you, Pearl
[14:00] CB Axel: So, those people who called you a white cunt were your friends? How well did you know them?
[14:00] PearlsOh: exactly follow the money to the carbon taxes and solar industries.
[14:00] PearlsOh: I didn't know them, they did it based off my skin
[14:00] PearlsOh: in street
[14:01] Al Michigan: yeah  why are all the meteorologist telling another story? why  are they sinced? why do you never their point of view?
[14:01] CB Axel: Laila asked if you had friends of another race.
[14:01] Al Michigan: i had a girlfriend, she was black.
[14:01] Al Michigan: sinced=  silenced?
[14:01] Laila Schuman: better than following the money to deaths caused by the affects that climate change will bring.... check out the frequency of hurricanes, tornados and fires...... lately..... would rather get the carbon tax.... that is money given to the PEOPLE..... and paid by the polluters
[14:02] CB Axel: I've heard plenty of meteorologists say there is climate change.
[14:02] Al Michigan: cannot be.
[14:02] Laila Schuman: what cannot be AL
[14:02] herman Bergson: I guess we are a little bit off topic now :-)
[14:02] PearlsOh: I have had, but I moved in the white flight, now I am in a white area and safe again, is that wrong?  And Asking personal questions as if I have had friends of other races is just that tired old thing of making it personal to attack me not my argument
[14:02] Al Michigan: in holland the temperatures are measured by the KNMI
[14:02] PearlsOh: and not a nice game
[14:03] Al Michigan: they replaced their  observation points for temperatures and all, these places give a rise in temperatures off 2 degrees just because the other  location, did they tell  this to every one|?
[14:03] Al Michigan: no!
[14:03] Laila Schuman: is it the color of the skin that makes someone dangerous... or is it being sidelined when they try to get a job and support their family... living in poverty.... and with no end in sight... maybe that is what we should fear... not color
[14:04] Laila Schuman: AL.... no....
[14:04] herman Bergson: Indeed Laila.....
[14:04] herman Bergson: But as I said...too much off topic
[14:04] CB Axel: Asking if you have friends of other races is not an attack.
[14:04] herman Bergson: Time to thank you all again for your great contributions to our debate
[14:05] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[14:05] Ciska Riverstone: thanx everyone
[14:05] Al Michigan: well i have had a black girlfriend for 10 years. i
[14:05] Laila Schuman: my husband works for the long term EPA... we KNOW the scientists who are studying Climate Change.... and he understands the scientific processes, vocabulary, intensity of examination.... and how , if you don't tell the truth in your reports you lose your reputation totally
[14:05] herman Bergson: I know we could go on forever....but I think we almost saved the world today
[14:05] PearlsOh: I know cuz there are no whites in poverty?    That's another falsehood, there are many white people in poverty.  Where I lived in the 80's and 90's a huge city the majority of it was impoverished white suburbs, with an inner city and one side of river well to do.
[14:05] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman. I need to go. See you next week.
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well cu all next time I hope
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[14:05] Laila Schuman: because the other scientists are savvy enough to understand what you write
[14:06] Al Michigan: unless we killed each other!
[14:06] herman Bergson: be  well CB:-)
[14:06] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) is online.
[14:06] herman Bergson: No killing in my class Al ! :-)
[14:06] Laila Schuman: oh come on Pearl.... you are fishing for reasons to disagree
[14:06] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Bejiita :-)
[14:06] PearlsOh: CB it is it is an attempt tp make it personal to and make the argument about me and not my idea
[14:06] Al Michigan: huh,... grrrrr!
[14:07] Al Michigan: yes! that s an old tric.
[14:07] herman Bergson: Sorry Al :-))
[14:07] PearlsOh: no Laila I am telling you a fact about the demographics of of my old city
[14:07] Laila Schuman: Chicago?
[14:07] Laila Schuman: New York?
[14:07] herman Bergson: In the US just like here there os poverty among the whole population...
[14:07] Laila Schuman: i have friends who are black....some i chat with daily
[14:08] Al Michigan: most blacks i know have more money as me.
[14:08] Ciska Riverstone: https://ncase.me/trust/
[14:08] Laila Schuman: it is our history that makes people afraid... back and forth....
[14:08] Al Michigan: i do not believe that.
[14:08] Ciska Riverstone: take care everyone
[14:08] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Ciska
[14:08] herman Bergson: See you, Ciska :-)
[14:08] Al Michigan: 50 years ago, black and white were better together as now. who had pitched us  against each other?????
[14:09] Laila Schuman: slave owners.... biased sheriffs.... ignorant ....i won't name them...but they are ignorant
[14:09] herman Bergson: Interesting question Al!
[14:09] Laila Schuman: Steve Bannon for one
[14:09] PearlsOh: yes, who is behind it all
[14:09] Al Michigan: sooo not!!!!!
[14:09] PearlsOh: globalists
[14:09] herman Bergson: and to what  purpose?????
[14:09] Al Michigan: it s not Bannon!
[14:09] Al Michigan: what about Obama?
[14:09] PearlsOh: to globalize us, take our identity, race, cultures and make us work cattle
[14:10] Al Michigan: what about the globalist  indeed!
[14:10] herman Bergson: that sound a little silly to me, Al
[14:10] Al Michigan: obama?
[14:10] Laila Schuman: he is doing this all over the world.... read Fuc*ed....
[14:10] herman Bergson: yes
[14:10] Al Michigan: i ll send you my reasoning!
[14:10] Al Michigan: but not tonight!
[14:10] Al Michigan: okay
[14:10] herman Bergson: ok...I am interested...
[14:10] Laila Schuman: about Cambridge Annylitical?
[14:10] Al Michigan: deal! i ll send you
[14:11] Laila Schuman: bannon is there from beginning to end
[14:11] PearlsOh: the "rigth wing" are only slower versions of the "left wing" it's all about globalizing us, right wing use money, left wing use social justice, both are dead ends
[14:11] herman Bergson: Can it be just ONE  person, Laila....or is it a movement in a culture
[14:11] Al Michigan: i agree pearl
[14:12] Laila Schuman: yes... it is the culture and money is smack in the middle of it
[14:12] herman Bergson: and what is the right end,, PearlsOh in your opinion?
[14:12] PearlsOh: resisting globalism
[14:12] Al Michigan: i agree
[14:12] PearlsOh: what are we all going to do when we have a one world government
[14:12] herman Bergson: ok...but I have to check what globalism really means
[14:13] PearlsOh: and it tells us to do something we don't like, how can we resist then
[14:13] Laila Schuman: it is a catch word... and distracting
[14:14] Laila Schuman: do most people have any real concept... in their deep emotional self.... what globalization means?
[14:14] herman Bergson: Oh..just to keep things clear....:-))))
[14:14] PearlsOh: no it's a real thing, Laila..  one world governments, one world people,  tho capitalism or communism, it's the same outcome in the end
[14:14] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....^_^
[14:14] PearlsOh: lol
[14:14] Al Michigan: it is about taking away the boaders, what a culture keeps together is this boarder! because ppl  organise as a unity, with their own rules, and they want a boarder! so taking away the walls it breaks the culture, after   that, every one will have just one choice,... to  only think about his own interest,  like during the ww2
[14:14] Laila Schuman: Steve Bannon thinks that
[14:14] herman Bergson: No...doesn't mean "shut up"...lol
[14:14] PearlsOh: I've stood up to leave so far.
[14:15] PearlsOh: yes and all industry globalized, how then do you complain about a bad product when there is only one company left making it
[14:15] herman Bergson: Do you really believe that some try to establish ONE government for the whole world. PearlsOh?
[14:15] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you herman and class!! ... .see you on Thursday :-)
[14:15] Al Michigan: well, i do.
[14:15] PearlsOh: yes, Herman
[14:16] PearlsOh: in some form this is where we seem to be heading
[14:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no thursday Bergie
[14:16] herman Bergson: No Class on Thursday Bergie!
[14:16] Laila Schuman: if nobody can get along... how can that happen
[14:16] Al Michigan: indeed Laila
[14:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's Sinterklaasavond:)
[14:16] Al Michigan: ah of course
[14:16] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ahh no Thursday! ok
[14:16] herman Bergson: We here in the EU already have to face a BREXIT, PearlsOh
[14:16] PearlsOh: that's what I've been trying to say, we don't get along when we're forced on each other.
[14:16] Al Michigan: indeed the brits are sooooo different
[14:17] PearlsOh: good luck with that, Herman,
[14:17] herman Bergson: Not my problem PearlsOh :-)
[14:17] bergfrau Apfelbaum: #°*** BABA ***°#
[14:17] herman Bergson: Bye Bergie
[14:17] Laila Schuman: I need to head out... have work to do.... be well all...
[14:17] Al Michigan: thanks!
[14:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Laila
[14:17] herman Bergson: be well Laila :-)
[14:18] Al Michigan: bye herman!
[14:18] herman Bergson: Bye Al :-)

[14:18] PearlsOh: Yeh bye everyone, see u next time