Vesalius was only descriptive and analytical in his anatomical work. One of the first who did systematic empirical research was the British physician William Harvey (1578 -1657).
Harvey made his first discovery when he estimated the amount of blood that passes through the heart every half hour.
According to the generally accepted theory of Galen, the liver was the source of the blood, which was then carried to all parts of the body,
after which it did not return to the heart. This meant that the blood had to be continuously produced and supplied by the liver.
Harvey calculated that in one day the liver had to make 270 kilograms of blood, based on Galenus' theory. A bit of a weird theory.
Harvey argued that the only option was for the blood to flow back to the heart so that it could be pumped again without having to be produced by the liver. This meant that the blood had to move in a cycle.
What we see at work here is an empirical cycle: Harvey deduced a prediction from Galen's theory, which turned out to be incorrect.
He then posited a new theory, the consequences of which he tested more successfully, after which Harvey further refined his circulatory theory
by including and explaining the operation and function of the valves in the veins, and then testing again, and so on.
The empirical cycle has already been encountered in other disciplines discussed here, beginning with fifteenth-century philology, linguistics, art theory,
and musicology, followed by sixteenth-century astronomy and mechanics, and seventeenth-century medicine youngest offshoot on the tree.
This was also the period that the microscopic world was discovered. Antoni van Leeuwenhoek 1632 - 1724) made the most powerful microscopes.
Raised in Delft, Dutch Republic, van Leeuwenhoek originally worked as a draper in his youth and founded his own shop in 1654,
but today he is regarded to be the first microbiologist. He put everything under his microscope and published a lot about his findings, one of which was the spermatozoon.
This led to all kinds of new theories and discoveries. The Dutch physician Reinier de Graaf (1641 - 1673) discovered ovulation and suggested that a fetus originates from a fusion of sperm and egg.
A lot was discovered in those days, but yet it didn't produce theories about the principles and patterns on which the functioning of the human body was based.
Newtonian theories about force, mass and pressure became popular in medical theory. Illness and health were nothing else than the absence or presence of hydrostatic balance.
Not a fruitful approach to disease and health. From the nineteenth century, medical practices were tested, improved and tested again. The empirical cycle was back as a research method.
But the implementation and testing of medical treatments did not mean that they could also be reduced to a set of theoretical principles that apply to the functioning of the human body as a whole.
But fortunately, we know a lot of all kinds of details so that we are able to protect ourselves against a COVID pandemic (more or less.
Thank you for your attention.....
The Discussion
[13:22] herman Bergson: What is additionally was thinking....
[13:22] herman Bergson: We do not understand the human body as a whole...
[13:22] herman Bergson: this can be demostrated by the fact that a. a lot of medication has unwanted side effects
[13:23] herman Bergson: and b. a lot of medication only deals with the symptoms of something not with the cause
[13:23] herman Bergson: Something to think about...
[13:23] Thank you for your attention.....
[13:23]
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:24] oola Neruda: being part of a conversation about...'what is life?... how can you define what is alive
[13:24] oola Neruda: are viruses alive?
[13:24] oola Neruda: the definition of life seems to be can they reproduce
[13:24] herman Bergson: A modern trend in medicine is Evidence based Medicine...
[13:25] oola Neruda: but covid "thingies" do not reproduce...
[13:25] herman Bergson: living cells reproduce viruses
[13:25] oola Neruda: they stick to the host... and cause it to morph... to do the reproduction for it
[13:26] oola Neruda: very strange stuff
[13:26] herman Bergson: We only look at treatments that work...
[13:26] herman Bergson: but only in a pragmatic way
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): viruses are weird yes
[13:27] oola Neruda: and the covid ones are more strange
[13:27] herman Bergson: yes...they don't live....
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but its just like a computer virus and why those are also called viruses, they are just code and need something to process it
[13:27] oola Neruda: yes
[13:27] oola Neruda: !!!!!!
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in case of us DNS, in case of computer malicious DNA
[13:27] herman Bergson: From an evolutionary point of view....how do they make sense...what is its purpose, other than to make us ill?
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): NONONONO now im drunk again
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for us its DNA, for computer 1 and 0s
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): both with harm in mind
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): pppfff too much party yesterday i think, im still sluggish
[13:28] oola Neruda: good analogy, PP
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa thats why they are called VIRUSES in a computer also, they damage and replicate
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just the same way
[13:29] oola Neruda: !!!!!
[13:29] herman Bergson: in that sense they are similar indeed
[13:30] herman Bergson: But computer viruses are intentional.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: human viruses aren't...they are just there
[13:30] herman Bergson: for what reason?
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes but they almost always cause harm to us
[13:30] oola Neruda: how did they evolve?
[13:31] herman Bergson: I really don't know oola
[13:31] herman Bergson: We have to look into that question to find out
[13:31] oola Neruda: and the answers are really elusive
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed and yes what is the purpose to replicate non living DNA? is it natures self regulating process by killing off organisms?
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its very strange
[13:32] herman Bergson: Crossed my mind too Bejiita
[13:32] herman Bergson: is it part of our ecology that now and then populations are decimated?
[13:32] herman Bergson: A self regulatory system of the earth
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when it gets tired of us drilling and mining in it i guess
[13:33] herman Bergson: it is only speculation....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like STOP DOING THAT IT ITCHES!
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BRRRRRRRRRRR! BLAM BLAM
[13:33] herman Bergson: yes...overpopulation...ok...throw in a deadly virus :-)
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): don't forget a chineslab
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or was it just us poking around where we should nopt poke around, like chinas ruthless handling of animals and hygiene
[13:34] herman Bergson: yes...creating viruses
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes they created a virus
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and didin't have it under control
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like in these doomsday films
[13:35] herman Bergson: you think COVID is a Chinese product, Beertje?
[13:35] oola Neruda: no
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bioweapon
[13:35] herman Bergson: you have fact checked that? :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it has elements that a virus doesn't have in nature
[13:36] herman Bergson: interesting... worth some homework
[13:37] herman Bergson: Do you have the source of that observation, Beertje?
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): not at the moment
[13:38] herman Bergson: it is an interesting feature of the virus,,,
[13:39] oola Neruda: makes me think of CRISPER
[13:39] herman Bergson: should at least be common knowledge now
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Crisper is dangerous I think
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes....you can do tricky things with it, it seems
[13:40] oola Neruda: it really can be
[13:40] herman Bergson: But here again you see the real problem.....
[13:40] herman Bergson: we know a lot details, but we have no general principle on which life is based...
[13:41] herman Bergson: so all those changes in details lead to unexpected and unwanted side-effects
[13:41] oola Neruda: the general answer is reproduction... but....?????
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): science is still wearing baby socks
[13:42] herman Bergson: the limits of human knowledge
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wish the LHC could be used for things like this
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): would be a trie discovery machine then
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:42] herman Bergson: the question of the future of knowledge Beertje, indeed
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we need something similar for this kind of science
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): will we ever know everything in detail?
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to get rid of these nasty viruses and deadly sicknesses
[13:43] herman Bergson: that you'll never know Beertje
[13:43] oola Neruda: I got the info about what is life...from a discussion between people i know... all scientists... with PHd's
[13:43] oola Neruda: and experience
[13:43] oola Neruda: they did not reach that decision without great thought
[13:44] herman Bergson: if we knew what life really is, we could reproduce it, I'd say
[13:45] oola Neruda: manipulate ... i think... reproduce...?????
[13:46] herman Bergson: we can manipulate already a lot...in agriculture and cattle breading it is common practice...
[13:46] oola Neruda: nods
[13:46] herman Bergson: Applying the heredity laws of Mendel for instance
[13:47] oola Neruda: but you are starting with living things... not ... just... "air"
[13:47] herman Bergson: indeed....
[13:47] herman Bergson: we can not make life, because we do not know what it is, on what principles it is based
[13:47] oola Neruda: nods
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:48] herman Bergson: that is the big difference between physics and medicine
[13:48] herman Bergson: the difference in knowledge
[13:48] oola Neruda: smiles.. back to computer viruses
[13:48] herman Bergson: they are well understood
[13:49] herman Bergson: just products of criminal intent
[13:50] herman Bergson: only man made biological viruses fall in that category too
[13:50] oola Neruda: so, how does the covid virus cause the host to do the dirty work of reproducing it
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the first ones were mostly pranks but today they are used in many ansty ways
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same as computer viruses, it gives the "CPU" bad instructions
[13:51] herman Bergson: I have read about the process, oola....microbiologists know how it works...that is why they can make vaccines
[13:51] oola Neruda: makes sence
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:51] herman Bergson: but it is all very complicated and meant for experts to understand it all
[13:52] herman Bergson: I only read such articles with great awe....
[13:52] herman Bergson: to read how much they can see and do on this micro levels
[13:52] oola Neruda: just thinking... if you pour acid on a person... the acid is not alive but it can cause the skin to...... whatever
[13:52] herman Bergson: beyond my understanding
[13:53] oola Neruda: may not be a parallel thought
[13:53] oola Neruda: but ... brings up questions
[[13:53] herman Bergson: the chemical reactions can be perfectly described by a chemist
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the acid want to react with something to go toward PH 7
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): = neutral like water
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats its desire, same with a strong base like sodium hydroxide
[13:54] herman Bergson: there...here is our chemist...
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also want to get to PH7 by forming salts and stuff with whatever it can react with
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im good at that also
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also interesting stuff
[13:55] herman Bergson: bejiita...my skinn begins already to hurt....
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no im not gonna dissolve u like a clogged drain! I want to make esters = tasty stuff u have in candy and drinks
[13:55] herman Bergson: So maybe we'd better end our discussion of today before more creepy things can come up :-))
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we made these at a lab in school and put in coffee
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 4yummy
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): remember, benzaldehyde = amaretto substance
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and Dr Pepper
[13:56] herman Bergson: So...thank you all again...next week last lectures before Xmas Holidays
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats one i really love, fav taste
[13:56] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa good again
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lets mix some benzaldehyde and enjoy it while we
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): * PLUPP *
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yummy
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i prefer water plaese
[13:57] herman Bergson: whiskey please ^_^
[13:57] bergfrau Apfelbaum: tyy Herman and class
