Welcome. I am happy to see you all again. It is been a long and in particular a very warm summer. I'll sing when the autumn leaves fall.
Today we'll start a new project. For me it is an essential one, because it is dealing with my personal philosophical convictions, which I have developed over the years.
Don't expect me to bring you the final and ultimate truth or the answer about the meaning of life. It is just my personal truth and meaning, in which you possibly may find some meaning and truth yourself.
The subject is MATERIALISM. To make it clear in advance, it is not about the lust for property, fancy cars, a lot of money etc. It is about what exists.
It is quite a shock to run into an article during research with the title "Why Materialism Is A Dead-End" by Bernardo Kastrup.
OMG! And this author even happens to be a fellow countryman of mine. Is he right? Shouldn't I just cancel this project?
What is going on here? I can tell you. It happened some 50 years ago. I was a philosophy student at the university and thought I had "discovered" a brilliant thought.
Just imagine......you try to think about thinking. How can I think about my thoughts? For that, I need a proper tool, but the only tool I have is my thinking.
So, I found myself in the situation that I am holding a ruler in my hand which length I try to measure with the ruler that I hold in my hand..
In other words, in some way, I am trapped, trapped in my own mind. There exists only one thing, I can be certain of, and that is MY mind.
However, my philosophical "epiphany" was already some 300 years old at least. You could George Berkley (1685 -1753), an Irish bishop and philosopher designate as the creator of this line of thinking
He formulated a theory he called "immaterialism", later referred to as "subjective idealism" by others. This theory denies the existence of material substance
and instead contends that familiar objects like tables and chairs are ideas perceived by the mind and, as a result, cannot exist without being perceived.
The whole point of this idealism is this. The philosophical question is: what really exists and how can I be sure of it? Do stones, apples, houses, and computers really exist?
Can we say with 100% certainty that these objects exist? No, says the idealist. When we see a stone, what really exists is our sensory perception of a stone.
We only are aware of the sensory perception of something, which we then call a stone. That there really exists a stone, is in fact a conclusion of an inference based on sensory perceptions.
Ergo, the only thing we can know for certain is inside our heads in our consciousness. In other words, actually, we are trapped inside our heads and never can be sure, that there exists something real outside our personal heads.
If you take this theory to the extreme, you end up with solipsism. This is the philosophical idea that only one's mind is sure to exist.
As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind.
However, the fact that we are able to doubt everything, which leaves us only with the awareness of our consciousness and a "cogito, ergo sum" , doesn't mean that that is our reality.
That is the point I am going to make. Was I happy to run into the article "Why Idealism is Bonkers" by Frank Visser. another fellow countryman, who criticizes the idealism of Bernardo Kastrup.
In other words, let's dig into the theme of the philosophy most people don't like: Materialism.
Thank you for your attention....It is good to be back ^_^
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
The Discussion
[13:14] Thank you for your attention....It is good to be back ^_^
[13:15] herman Bergson: Still there??? ^_^
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes digesting
[13:15] herman Bergson: Was it too heavy?
[13:16] oola Neruda: need more info... examples
[13:16] herman Bergson: ok
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks a bit different from what I thought
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): not exist outside the mind....seems very lonely to me
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): before me I have my computer. I can see the rainbow colors of the keyboard. I can fel the keya as I type. I can feel warm air from the cooling exhausts and the texture of the plastic casing. if I lift the machine I feel its weight. hard to think it and everything around me is just an illusion would
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same as a door opening. If i go beside i walk smack right into the wall and hurt myself
[13:17] herman Bergson: No no...Bejiita..it is not an illusion
[13:17] herman Bergson: it is about the epistemological question: What can I know 100% certain.....
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:18] herman Bergson: That is what philosophers want to see answered....
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): drop a rock on your toe, it feels realy real
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed OUCH
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very beertje
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i do that often
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): qith things
[13:18] herman Bergson: That was an answer from a philosopher to Berkley, Beertje
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): like soap bar in the shower
[13:18] herman Bergson: lol
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a classic
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:19] herman Bergson: Just dont shower Gemma :-)
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): awk
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a very dangerous one
[13:19] herman Bergson: :-))
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:19] herman Bergson: But ok...give me a minute to explain
[[13:19] bergfrau Apfelbaum: If you throw a stone at your head, I can feel that there is a stone :-)
[[13:20] oola Neruda: would it help to ask if someone else experiences the same conclusion as you .... like... is the light on or off
[13:20] herman Bergson: yes Bergie, but you don't feel a stone....you have the sensation of being hit
[13:20] herman Bergson: intersubjectivity, oola...interesting aspect
[13:21] herman Bergson: but this still isn't the core issue here
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however one thing I know is both sound and color is just something our mind creates. from air vibrations and a certain spectrum of EM. We could as well see in the radio spectrum or the gamma spectrum (which would be bad cause gamma rays kill all life)
[13:21] herman Bergson: focus.....
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh dear
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but different animals see in diffferent spectrum thats fact
[13:22] herman Bergson: the core issue is knowledge.....
[13:22] bergfrau Apfelbaum: the blood tells me it was a stone. or something hard whose name is "stone"
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:22] herman Bergson: the question...what can I KNOW with 100% certainty
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that will be the issue i guess
[13:22] herman Bergson: for instance.....I see an apple.....
[13:23] herman Bergson: every normal human being would say...look...an apple
[13:23] herman Bergson: but philosophers aren't normal human beings :-))
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i see an apple. i eat an apple i taste an apple ㋡
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is normal?
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very very true
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Beertje
[13:23] oola Neruda: through a glass darkly.... as they say
[13:24] herman Bergson: the philosopher says....no there isn't an apple.....you just have a visual experience in your mind which you describe by '''look...an apple
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): can you touch the apple?
[13:25] herman Bergson: Just close your eyes.....is the apple still there? No....then, how do you know there still is an apple?
[13:25] oola Neruda: I THINK the point is... is it real or just a figment of the imagination?
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): can you smell the apple?
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (closes my eyes and feels for the apple i know is beside computer) there it is
[13:25] herman Bergson: all leads to the same question Beertje....
[13:26] herman Bergson: Liker Descates said....I can doubt everything.....except my own mind
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so according to these philosophers we live in a dream?
[13:27] herman Bergson: Well...
[13:27] herman Bergson: not in a dream......
[13:27] herman Bergson: we live in consciousness...
[13:27] oola Neruda: well said
[13:27] herman Bergson: what really exists is consciousness
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): consciousness in an empty world
[13:28] oola Neruda: very well said.... but can we trust it
[13:28] herman Bergson: some take it so far that they claim that it is not just an individual consciousness....but an objective consciousness of which we are part of
[13:29] herman Bergson: You can imagine that this tends to religious thinking....
[13:29] herman Bergson: esse est percipi....existing is being seen....that was what Berkley said...
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if that is rue, why do we learn, work, live?
[13:30] herman Bergson: that is because we exist and we exist because we are seen by God...amen :-))
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): WE ARE THE BORG! ?
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like that?
[13:30] herman Bergson: Resistance is futile, Bejiita!
[[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a hive mind
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that analogy?
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i thought god didn't exist?
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sort of
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): how can we be seen by it/him/her?
[13:31] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Philosophers think differently.,,, and they try to find another theories. Actually it's like a game :-) and i like it
[13:31] herman Bergson: Specsavers Beertje :-))))
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its really interesting although a bit hard to grasp
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): loool
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): my daughter never spoke about that :))))
[13:31] herman Bergson: Very true Bergie....you hit the mark
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha
[13:32] herman Bergson: We are not talking about common sense thought here
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so many theories that cross over and under
[13:32] herman Bergson: the point is that we question common sense thoughts
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and run rings around themselves
[13:33] herman Bergson: yes Gemma, that shows that we don't understand a fricking thing about our existence :-))))
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yay
[13:33] herman Bergson: But we can give it a try still
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we do or this would not be over 1000 lectures
[13:34] herman Bergson: To be honest...I have a feeling I DO understand some things about existence and the meaning of it....
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:34] herman Bergson: That is what I mean by saying that this is a personal project...
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): don't you think that most people think that also?
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in each of their minds?
[13:35] herman Bergson: Guess you have to make a difference here Gemma....
[13:35] herman Bergson: one the one hand, I guess you are right....
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i guess we are going to examine Herman's mind and see if we agree or not
[13:36] herman Bergson: but if you put it in a philosophical context....a lot of people get lost by the complex questions
[13:36] herman Bergson: ~for instance...
[13:37] herman Bergson: 99% of the people don't care about the question....are you 100% sure that that stone exists...
[13:37] herman Bergson: and when the person says YES...then the philosopher says...
[13:37] herman Bergson: ok...what is your proof?
[13:38] herman Bergson: and then hell breaks loose :-))
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (throws stone at hermans head) BOINK! OUUUW!
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): y said OUW that means it exists!
[13:38] herman Bergson: told you!
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehehe
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well indeed
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we think all is real but
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mmm
[13:39] herman Bergson: well Bejiita...that is questionable....
[13:39] herman Bergson: a lot think God is real, paranormal phenomena are real, only science is real and so on
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): chasing bigfoot
[13:40] herman Bergson: so...the question....what is really real, is a real question
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): seeing bigfoot
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed herman
[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i think if you could explain everything logically, we would all go nuts. because the truth is so banal. for example two children playing with their globe..... i am a bit afraid to wonder if my lighter, which i desperately need, is really there?!
[13:40] herman Bergson: for instance
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah ok
[13:41] herman Bergson: Well, what do you think....do we have a nice theme here?
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i don't understand bergie
[13:41] oola Neruda: yes good theme
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we will see
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): vielleicht auf deutsch?
[13:42] herman Bergson: Bergie should stop smoking ^_^....problem solved
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: with such a question I question my whole (beautiful) life
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there you go!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): stop smoking
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: nein Beertje:-) das will ich so schaffen
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes mam:-) Gemma
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: soon!
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh, is already too late
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): drink wine instead
[13:43] oola Neruda: i was recently reading about this but cannot think of the names of the people involved nor their conclusions.... real life was hanging over my head and now I need to return to the book and read that part again....
[13:43] herman Bergson: Never mind Bergie, just enjoy life ^_^
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or more beer
[13:43] oola Neruda: they named some names of people who wrestled with this
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mmmm wine beer
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yum
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and more apples!
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): too early here for good apples
[13:44] herman Bergson: No vacation for your brains anymore!
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I have some granny smiths here. They are really tasty and fresh and also last long
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): darn
[13:50] herman Bergson: Well...I guess I tested your brains enough for today :-)
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting stuff
[13:50] herman Bergson: So...relax and enjoy
