Monday, June 14, 2010

261 : Feminist Political Philosophy

As usual all political philosophers we are discussing here are men just like we discovered in our project on 100 philosophers, that there were only two women philosophers.

We have put things in balance by doing a project on Women Philosophers and today again we bring back some balance by paying attention to Feminist Political philosophy.

Feminist political philosophy is an area of philosophy focused on understanding and critiquing the way political philosophy is usually construed,

often without any attention to feminist concerns, and to articulating how political theory might be reconstructed in a way that advances feminist concerns.

feminist political philosophy focuses most directly on understanding ways in which collective life can be improved. This project involves understanding the ways in which power emerges and is used or misused in public life.

In fact women had a great impact on the political organization of society in the period 1840 -1920 which focused on improving the political, educational, and economic system primarily for middle-class women.

A second wave of feminist activity emerges in the 1960s: a new feminist consciousness that emerged through women's solidarity movements and new forms of reflection that uncovered sexist attitudes and impediments throughout the whole of society.

Till the 1980s feminist political philosophy mirrored the traditional structures by splitting up in liberal feminism, socialist feminism, Marxist and radical feminism.

Since the collapse of the communist regimes are these old categories much less relevant. Along with political philosophy more broadly, more feminist political philosophers began to turn to the meaning and interpretation of civil society, the public sphere, and democracy itself.

Liberal feminism still is strong. It discusses the distinction of the private and public sphere. An example: It has criminalized violence against women, which previously, in marital relations, hadn't been considered a crime.

They showed how the private/public split served to uphold male domination of women by rendering power relations within the household as “natural” and immune from political regulation.

“Women and men are divided by gender, made into the sexes as we know them, by the requirements of its dominant form, heterosexuality,

which institutionalizes male sexual dominance and female sexual submission. If this is true, sexuality is the linchpin of gender inequality” (MacKinnon 1989) Words from a radical feminist.

As Amy Allen puts it, “Unlike liberal feminists, who view power as a positive social resource that ought to be fairly distributed,

and feminist phenomenologists, who understand domination in terms of a tension between transcendence and immanence,

radical feminists tend to understand power in terms of dyadic relations of dominance/subordination, often understood on analogy with the relationship between master and slave.”

There are several more developments in feminist political philosophy like maternal feminism, agonisitc feminism and performative feminism.

"In sum, feminist political philosophy is a still evolving field of thought that has much to offer mainstream political philosophy.

In the past two decades it has come to exert a stronger influence over mainstream political theorizing, raising objections that mainstream philosophers have had to address, though not always very convincingly.

And in its newest developments it promises to go even further." says Noƫlle McAfee at the end of her article in the You should read it. And also

The Discusion

[13:19] herman Bergson: So that is your homework ㋡
[13:20] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)
[13:20] You decline New Releases & MM Board item from A group member named Spinnetje Jewell.
[13:20] Abraxas Nagy: ah
[13:20] ZANICIA Chau: oooh!
[13:20] herman Bergson: It is very revealing.... an eye opener
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: oki
[13:20] herman Bergson: just like our women philosophers were
[13:21] herman Bergson: if you have any questions or remark...feel free
[13:21] Bruce Mowbray: Feminism has had a profound effect on theology - as well as political thought.
[13:21] Gemma Cleanslate: could not connect to the second one
[13:22] ZANICIA Chau: Crumbs!....That's Brit for wow!
[13:22] herman Bergson: the link to that one is at the end of the Stanford article too
[13:22] Bruce Mowbray: The "tension between transcendent and immanent" is very powerful.
[13:22] Gemma Cleanslate: ok will check stanford
[13:22] Abraxas Nagy: yep me to
[13:23] herman Bergson: To be honest Bruce ...I have no idea what that means ㋡
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: aa yes have them up now
[13:23] Repose Lionheart: I'm very skeptical of culturally induced imbalances in power relationships...guess I'm a radical feminist at heart ㋡
[13:23] Bruce Mowbray: Transcendent "male" God vs. immanent experiential divinity.
[13:23] Lena Sigall: what caused men to have more power in society than women.... rather than the reverse?
[13:23] Gemma Cleanslate: that is good
[13:23] Gemma Cleanslate: size and strength
[13:24] herman Bergson: Well....that is one of the big contributions of uncover those power relations
[13:24] Gemma Cleanslate: and the belief that women were created to take care of them and the children
[13:24] herman Bergson: Oh that explains it quite well Bruce ..thanks
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes..God is a man... ㋡
[13:24] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)
[13:25] herman Bergson: very odd actually
[13:25] Bruce Mowbray: The [nonsensical] idea that God ordained women to be subservient to men.
[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
[13:25] Repose Lionheart: embedded in myth too...differences in understanding males and females go back to prehistorical (preliterate) times and are deeply embedding in us
[13:25] Abraxas Nagy: I'd say... it presumes human likeness
[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes.....that is what men wrote ㋡
[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: all the way back to that lost rib
[13:25] Lena Sigall: but why did those that originally formed current major religions have the desire to oppress women at all?
[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: unclean
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: aa yes dont get it
[13:26] Bruce Mowbray: Worse in "fundamentalist" traditions.
[13:26] herman Bergson: One of the reasons historically may be that women were the production unit to keep society alive, and the armies manned
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: like islam , women are a thing u can own and they are forbidden to do much other things than stand at the stove
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: tragic
[13:26] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: even forbidden to drive cars in ex saudi arabia
[13:26] herman Bergson: From our point of view it is bizarre indeed
[13:26] Repose Lionheart: yes
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
[13:27] Abraxas Nagy: mmm yes
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: from their women view is ok
[13:27] Bruce Mowbray: Happy to note that women did VERY well in the US elections on Tuesday.
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: and packed from head to toe so the actual human is totally invisible
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: yes lololol
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: well
[13:27] Lena Sigall: hasn't most of human life been under matriarchy, except for the past few thousand years?
[13:28] herman Bergson: I dont know Lena....
[13:28] Gemma Cleanslate: in the home and family i would agree
[13:28] Bruce Mowbray: I would say "respectful" of matriarchy rather than "under" it.
[13:28] Gemma Cleanslate: but outside the woman is not more
[13:28] herman Bergson: The fact is that our culture is now male dominated
[13:28] Gemma Cleanslate: not more then in the home
[13:29] Lena Sigall: but my point is, it couldn't be that men are naturally more dominant, if for a long time humans were matriarchal
[13:29] herman Bergson: and feminism uncovers this imbalance....basically on liberal grounds...
[13:29] herman Bergson: and with a claim of equality
[13:29] herman Bergson: and there we already have learnt
[13:30] Bruce Mowbray: Boys have to be taught to dominate -- and the current culture does a "good" job of teaching them.
[13:30] Makara Oh: What is the problem with having a culture that is male dominated? Would it be better the other way around?
[13:30] herman Bergson: No Maraka....
[13:30] Lena Sigall: oh man
[13:30] Lena Sigall: lol
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: equal is best
[13:30] Bruce Mowbray thinks, Balance is almost always better --the Aristotelian mean.
[13:30] herman Bergson: but it concerns here fundamental concepts of ethics...
[13:30] Makara Oh: Isn't i a bit like utopia?
[13:31] herman Bergson: like equality, freedom, the right to your own life
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:31] herman Bergson: I dont think it is utopia...
[13:31] herman Bergson: Look at violence within the marriage...
[13:32] Makara Oh: Was it Rousseau or de Tocqueville who claimed the position of the master is worse than the one f the slave?
[13:32] herman Bergson: Now we do something against it...due to feminist action
[13:32] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
much, it is much appreciated!
[13:32] Repose Lionheart: power imbalances are as limiting to those who are powerful as to those who are powerless...
[13:32] Lena Sigall: sexism is bad for men too... see how gay men are treated
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: hmm its wired first people get together cause of love and next moment they try killing each other
[13:33] Abraxas Nagy: right
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: strange
[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: it is more ownership issues i think than love
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita...some people change their mind
[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: it is mine and no one cant touch it
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: ah yes
[13:34] herman Bergson: I would say so too Gemma
[13:35] herman Bergson: and this equality issue is specific ally a feminist issue....
[13:35] Gemma Cleanslate: case here just two weeks ago man left court after being told to stay away from wife (third time!!!) went and shot her in her home
[13:35] Bruce Mowbray: In monotheistic religions, God ordains husbands to "own" their wives.
[13:35] CONNIE Eichel: oh :/
[13:35] Gemma Cleanslate: oh yes
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: heard about that yes
[13:35] herman Bergson: bu tin the position of the woman in our culture this inequality is very clear ....
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: crazy
[13:35] Repose Lionheart: yes, what is being striven for is very practical, not utopian at all
[13:35] Gemma Cleanslate: economically also
[13:36] Repose Lionheart: that women not be shot in their homes...
[13:36] Bruce Mowbray: Bringing equality to the labor force doubles its size.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Yes Bruce ㋡
[13:36] Repose Lionheart: and increases economice efficiency
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: a yes
[13:37] Bruce Mowbray nods.
[13:37] Lena Sigall: why are women still paid less for the same work?
[13:37] Gemma Cleanslate: very good question
[13:37] Repose Lionheart: same with recial integrations of workforces
[13:37] Repose Lionheart: racial*
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: and here we have a good example not only about women but people from other countries immigrating here to sweden,
[13:37] Bruce Mowbray thinks, THAT's GOT to change.
[13:37] Gemma Cleanslate: that is why feminists are still so active
[13:37] herman Bergson: I have no idea.... it is illogical..
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: engineers cant get better jobs than sweeping floors and so
[13:37] Lena Sigall: there's been like no progress in the US in 20 years or something :/
[13:37] Gemma Cleanslate: oh i think there has been
[13:37] Lena Sigall: why is progress so slow?
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: really strange
[13:38] Repose Lionheart: some of it is structural...some of it is bias
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:38] herman Bergson: The slowness is a subjective onbservation.....
[13:38] Bruce Mowbray thinks: Human nature doesn't like to rock the boat.
[13:39] herman Bergson: Some processes took a hundred years to achieve a success...
[13:39] Repose Lionheart: too few places protect women's careers (seniority and such like) when they get pregnant, for instance
[13:39] Lena Sigall: that's too long
[13:39] Lena Sigall: all women should go on strike!
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:39] Gemma Cleanslate: lol
[13:39] herman Bergson: I have no idea whether it took too long or not....
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: read many stories like , CG to the baby- U ARE FIRED!
[13:39] Repose Lionheart: yes!
[13:39] Abraxas Nagy: ╔╗╔═╦╗
[13:39] Abraxas Nagy: ║╚╣║║╚╗
[13:39] Abraxas Nagy: ╚═╩═╩═╝
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: terrible
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray: Good point, Lena -- the Lysistrata (sp?)
[13:40] herman Bergson: Yes....the wifes of Sparta...
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray nods.
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray: No more sex for your guys!
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: ahhha
[13:40] herman Bergson: Fact is that social changes take a long time...
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray: you guys.
[13:40] Abraxas Nagy: huh?
[13:40] Repose Lionheart: yep, recall that
[13:40] Abraxas Nagy: no way
[13:41] Lena Sigall: and women pay the consequences in the meantime?
[13:41] Repose Lionheart: yes, Prof
[13:41] Lena Sigall: that's wrong
[13:41] herman Bergson: maybe the old generation must die first before the new ideas set roots
[13:41] Repose Lionheart: women who resist change are part of the problem, too
[13:41] herman Bergson: and such generation after generation
[13:41] Bruce Mowbray: I think men, in general, are VERY insecure -- and that's why they dominate.
[13:41] Repose Lionheart: it is a people problem
[13:41] Repose Lionheart: as they all are :(
[13:42] Lena Sigall: women treat each other badly
[13:42] herman Bergson: These are unwarranted generalizations.....
[13:42] Lena Sigall: like bullying in the workplace
[13:42] Repose Lionheart: how so, Prof?
[13:43] herman Bergson: Because some women treat other women badly....
[13:43] Gemma Cleanslate: it begins in the home , and then the school
[13:43] herman e nuances
[13:44] Bruce Mowbray: Yet, some facts - like wage disparity - can be demonstrated to be true.
[13:44] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)
[13:44] herman Bergson: Even saying 'it is vert common" brings up a lot of questions...
[13:45] herman Bergson: Where is it common….social stratification...... in family or nor...etc
[13:45] Repose Lionheart: i would say, common in my experience, i think
[13:46] herman Bergson: it is the objective of philosophical discourse to reveal all such questions...not to use generalizations...
[13:46] Repose Lionheart: that would limit the context of the claim
[13:46] herman Bergson: That would be correct Repose....
[13:46] Bruce Mowbray: It is very common in America for women not to become Presidents and Governors.
[13:46] herman Bergson: then we can question your experience
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: we reveal many questions in the class always have
[13:47] Repose Lionheart: understood those limitations as implicit in what Lena said, me
[13:47] herman Bergson: Every generalization is subject to philosophical analysis
[13:47] Repose Lionheart: True, Prof ㋡
[13:47] herman Bergson: I am not addressing Lena personally here...
[13:47] Bruce Mowbray: Theological seminaries (Protestant) now have more female students than male.
[13:47] Repose Lionheart: ok ㋡
[13:47] herman Bergson: Just pointing at philosophical method
[13:47] Repose Lionheart: :))
[13:48] Repose Lionheart: Do they, Bruce?
[13:48] Repose Lionheart: Interesting
[13:48] Bruce Mowbray: yes!
[13:48] Repose Lionheart: That will make for changes 25 years down the road :)))
[13:48] Repose Lionheart: hehe
[13:49] Bruce Mowbray: I think it reflects a basic change in our mythos.
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: yes, i agree ㋡
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: think, the Alien movies :))
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: hehe
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: silly example
[13:49] herman Bergson: Well.... there may be a relation with feminist ethics here....
[13:49] herman Bergson: Care ethics...
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: oh!
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: Care ethics
[13:49] Bruce Mowbray: This of AVATAR.
[13:49] Repose Lionheart: like the sound of that
[13:49] Bruce Mowbray: Think.
[13:50] Repose Lionheart: ㋡ Bruce
[13:50] herman Bergson: The feminist philosophers have more understanding if interrelational care and its meaning than male philosophers had in the past...
[13:50] Bruce Mowbray: The natural ethics of caring and unity of all things.
[13:50] Gemma Cleanslate: that is natural
[13:50] Repose Lionheart: oh, interesting
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:50] herman Bergson: Yes... and religion a about care too
[13:50] Repose Lionheart: oh
[13:51] Repose Lionheart: yes it should be
[13:51] herman Bergson: Yes repose....
[13:51] herman Bergson: You could compare it with vertical and horizontal thinking....
[13:51] Bruce Mowbray thinks: I hope no one brings up the priests molesting children. . ..
[13:51] herman Bergson: Like the Roman catholic church with all its conservatism is returning to vertical thinking...
[13:52] Bruce Mowbray thinks, Oh god -- here it comes.
[13:52] herman Bergson: where the horizontal thinking ..the care disappears behind its horizon
[13:52] ZANICIA Chau: way to put it!
[13:52] Bruce Mowbray: and the parisheners disappear from the churches.
[13:53] ZANICIA Chau: lol
[13:53] herman Bergson: Exactly Bruce....
[13:53] Repose Lionheart thinks Bruce is prescient
[13:53] Bruce Mowbray: fair is fair.
[13:53] Repose Lionheart: ㋡
[13:53] Repose Lionheart: Yes, Prof
[13:54] herman Bergson: We are a little off target now....
[13:54] Bruce Mowbray: All claims to sexist domination have mythical sub-texts.
[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: ok have to get going now
[13:54] herman Bergson: In general you can say that feminist political philosophy is a valueable contribution to philosophical discourse...
[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: see you Tuesday I hope
[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)
[13:54] Abraxas Nagy: c ya Gemma
[13:55] Bejiita Imako: cu gemma
[13:55] Repose Lionheart: true, myth lies at the base of all human activity...even in our times
[13:55] Gemma Cleanslate: soon i hope ab
[13:55] Zinzi Serevi: bye bye Gemma
[13:55] Bruce Mowbray: a very valuable contribution to philosophical discourse.
[13:55] ZANICIA Chau: bye
[13:55] Abraxas Nagy: yep
[13:55] herman Bergson: Well Gemma is almost no problem...
[13:55] Repose Lionheart: bye, Gemma ㋡
[13:55] herman Bergson: Ok..may I thank you all for your attention and participation again...
[13:55] Bruce Mowbray: [`·.] APPLAUSE!! [.·´]
[13:55] Abraxas Nagy: thank YOU again herman
[13:55] Bejiita Imako: interesting as usual :)
[13:55] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ㋡
[13:55] Lena Sigall: thanks herman
[13:56] Zinzi Serevi: thank you proff
[13:56] Repose Lionheart: Oh, thank you, Professor!
[13:56] ZANICIA Chau: thanks professor...wonderful again
[13:56] Abraxas Nagy: as always food for thought
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: ok gtg to a birthday party now
[13:56] Lena Sigall: see you all next time
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: but cu soon
[13:56] CONNIE Eichel: great class :)
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: :)
[13:56] CONNIE Eichel: hope i can join next one
[13:56] ZANICIA Chau: goodbye all
[13:56] Loo Zeta is sorry I came late, son was hogging computer
[13:56] herman Bergson: Read the articles....Begin with stanford and you'll be completely informed on this subject
[13:56] ZANICIA Chau: ty
[13:56] Repose Lionheart: Yes, Prof ㋡
[13:56] Abraxas Nagy: see you all nextime friends
[13:57] Zinzi Serevi: bye Abrax
[[13:57] Zinzi Serevi: bye everyone..:)
[13:57] herman Bergson: By Abraxas
[13:57] CONNIE Eichel: bye z
[13:57] Repose Lionheart poofs

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