Wednesday, September 5, 2012

413: The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism - Introduction

In  my previous lectures I have demonstrated that the present idea of a free market is a utopia, based on a Randian misconception of the human condition and human nature.

Besides that, the beliefs of neo-liberalism are based on a complete misconception of the ideas of Adam Smith and at this moment, due to all this narrow mindedness and wishful thinking, 

we face one of the biggest financial and economic crises in history. Resent history has been the clash of the systems: Communism versus Capitalism.

And while large crowds were cheering, the Berlin Wall fell on November 9, 1989. It became the symbol of the collapse of communism as a feasible social and economic system and the apparent victory of capitalism.

Now, about 25 years later, we must conclude that this was a Pyrrhus victory, that capitalism has not brought the solid and secure economy, which is beneficial to the common interest.

So, we have to face the question: "What next?" How should our world look like? Who owns what and how is it justified? How should the limited wealth of this earth be shared and distributed?

To give you a recent example…. The North Pole. Who in the world would be interested in that lump of ice except some scientists and adventurers?

But the situation has changed. To be honest, people smell  money there because of gas and oil. Suddenly maps are deployed, pencil and ruler at hand and states are confronted with the question: Who owns the North Pole and why?

So, What next? That is the question I want to investigate and analyze in this project. The first half will be an analysis of the questionable ethical characteristics and effects of the free market in our life.

The second half will deal with human nature, with the basic question, related to the idea "Greed is good". We have to answer the question what we really are.

Are we what Aristotle suggested, beings guided by virtues or like  Thomas Hobbes (….) thought: "Homo homini lupus", predators among predators, each one for himself?

In this context we love dichotomies and we have a number of them: are we basically egoistic or altruistic beings? Are we basically individualistic or social beings? 

Are we independent individuals, fighting for our autonomy or do we long for belonging to a group? Are we basically ratio or emotion driven?

In 1996 the pharmacists supplied about 80 million standard daily doses of antidepressants. In a period of 15 years this has increased with 230% ! 

Today 259 million SDD of antidepressants  are supplied. And here I am talking only about figures,which apply to the Netherlands only!

"We are all sickened by the current economic system. While produce, consume and enjoy are the holy trinity of the neoliberal belief,

 there comes just less valuable from our hands and we feel emptier, sadder and lonelier than ever.", to quote the Belgian professor of clinical psychotherapy. Paul Verhaeghe.

My desk is littered with newspaper clippings. All dealing with different aspects of the collapse of capitalism. Let me quote a banker, a VIP among Dutch bankers.

The headline of the article: "Ethics among bankers is hard to find." Subheading: "The banking industry has become an industry where you can do anything as long as there is no rule that forbids it."

According to George Möller (64), author of the book "Waardenloos (Without values)" (2012), it is about time that such condemnable attitude changes. 

The first economists such as Adam Smith, were economists with morality. In their form of free capitalism was assumed that the people were friendly virtuous and that it was the silent hand of God that eventually guided our actions.

They closed transactions in the confidence that  both parties involved benefited from then. That increased prosperity. 

In the second half of the 20th century, economics disguised itself in a cloud of mathematical models and assumed the attitude of being equal to natural science. 

People like Milton Friedman and Paul Samuelson built models for monetary gain. Transactions are concluded because they made money for you . That someone else is harmed - or even being ripped off - is not seen as immoral as long as it is not prohibited.

And this has led to our present situation. In many political debates we are no longer treated as human beings, but simply as costs. It's about time that we rethink our position.

The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you ^_^
[13:22] Lizzy Pleides: Thank you Herman!
[13:22] Bejiita Imako:
[13:22] Kime Babenco: Thanks Professor Herman
[13:22] Umae Ying: shudder
[13:22] Qwark Allen: i`ve been seeing a lot of information about this bankers
[13:22] Qwark Allen: and seems they are the same ones since 19th century
[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes me too....
[13:22] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:22] Gemma Allen: i had a book to recommend to you but have to find it
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: I use to say, before in time the banks were for us, now we are for the banks and their fat wallets
[13:22] Qwark Allen: warburg, rothshield, etc
[13:23] herman Bergson: I wouldn't say so Qwark....
[13:23] Qwark Allen: its the ones that owns the federal reserve bank also
[13:23] herman Bergson: A lot has changed....
[13:23] Qwark Allen: and the IMF and the world bank etc
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes...banks have had always political influence, if you mean that, Qwark
[13:23] Tessa Zalivstok: so let me summarize
[13:23] Tessa Zalivstok: greed is bad
[13:23] Gemma Allen: actually at this point the IMF can help
[13:24] Gemma Allen: but is not
[13:24] Tessa Zalivstok: money would be much better if we didn't have it
[13:24] Qwark Allen: all this banks belong to the same persons
[13:24] druth Vlodovic: one of the big changes is that the idea of having concern for others is considered reprehensible in business
[13:24] Debbie Dee: The deeper problem is that we all expect our investments to do well, and are not concerned with how.
[13:24] Tessa Zalivstok: we'd joyously give away our goods
[13:24] herman Bergson: I'll get to that in the next lecture Qwark ^_^
[13:24] Qwark Allen: its them that dictate how the world flow
[13:24] herman Bergson: Exactly Debbie
[13:24] Tessa Zalivstok: there would be no oil, no banks and no anti depressants?
[13:25] Mick Nerido: a lot of the problem if from globalization, it's like the wild west between nation state, everyone out to beat the other.
[13:25] Qwark Allen: i found it fun to know, that the warburg brothers loaned money to the allies and to germany also in both world wars
[13:25] Kime Babenco: Bak in the years, I guess 1950, there has been a small book that described communism as a farm where eventually arrive capitalism in... I guess you high time to rewrite that book about capitalism as well...
[13:25] Tessa Zalivstok: oh and we would have absolutely nothing to do with people outside out borders
[13:25] Qwark Allen: was them also that loaned the money for the russian revolution
[13:25] druth Vlodovic: play a game of "risk" and you can see part of the problem, as resources accumulate you have more power to accumulate resources
[13:26] Tessa Zalivstok: we wouldn't need resources
[13:26] herman Bergson: George Orwell, Animal Farm
[13:26] Tessa Zalivstok: especially oil and gas
[13:26] Qwark Allen: was the same ones that are responsible for the 9/11
[13:26] Kime Babenco: Yes, Herman ;-)
[13:26] Debbie Dee: So, Herman - you need to get us thinking clearly about our moral values - since we are complicit in the activities of bankers and big business.
[13:26] Qwark Allen: i`ll say if we want to change the world, we got to get rid of all this greedy bankers
[13:26] Tessa Zalivstok: I agree
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:26] Gemma Allen: who will take their place
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Debbie that is my intention :-))
[13:27] Gemma Allen: :-)
[13:27] Tessa Zalivstok: since in this world there's no money we wouldn't need them
[13:27] Debbie Dee: we got to change ourselves, and then the big bankers.
[13:27] Qwark Allen: get them in jail, confiscate their trillions of dollars
[13:27] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:27] Tessa Zalivstok: hehe
[13:27] Kime Babenco: I think we are social humans when we need it, but a-social when we don't need
[13:27] Mick Nerido: China and India will be next super powers, perhaps Eastern philosophy will come to the fore...
[13:27] Tessa Zalivstok: but who would build this jail?
[13:27] Tessa Zalivstok: it'd have to be a big one
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: yes like in Startrek, and then they have all resources to make these huge ships cause there are no cost in making and developing them
[13:27] druth Vlodovic: we'd need to have a less law-based legal system, currently anything that isn't illegal is good,as was said, but this is because we gave up our moral right to think to "rule of law"
[13:27] Qwark Allen: china and india will perish before that
[13:27] Qwark Allen: they are already in a trap, they can`t escape
[13:27] Lizzy Pleides: we shouldn't regard things only as black or white (bad or good) Tessa, there's a way between too
[13:27] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:27] Gemma Allen: china is up and coming with the money
[13:28] Qwark Allen: china GDP is a fake
[13:28] Gemma Allen: they are getting like the rest of us
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: basically if u want to make something u just do it
[13:28] Tessa Zalivstok: yep
[13:28] Tessa Zalivstok: no laws
[13:28] Gemma Allen: they are investing in africa!!!!!
[13:28] Tessa Zalivstok: that'd keep the bankers straight
[13:28] Gemma Allen: big time!!!
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: now for ex the road service, roads are bad and railroads need to upgrade
[13:28] herman Bergson: smiles....
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: all i hear is cant be done , no money for that
[13:28] Debbie Dee: Yes they are - buying mines down here in South Africa.
[13:28] Qwark Allen: thats not a investment, cause africa is not benefiting with it
[13:28] Tessa Zalivstok: I think we should abolish travel
[13:29] Gemma Allen: actually they are in some countries
[13:29] Kime Babenco: Investing in Africa (China) but those who work there are at slave conditions !
[13:29] Tessa Zalivstok: we'd just get to the borders and have to deal with foreigners
[13:29] herman Bergson: A lot of ideas ....!
[13:29] Lizzy Pleides: we need laws and moral people
[13:29] herman Bergson: I think we already have the solution here.... ^_^
[13:29] Tessa Zalivstok: isn't that globalisation?
[13:29] Debbie Dee: I think I am going to move into SL permanently ';)
[13:29] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:29] Gemma Allen: it is
[13:29] herman Bergson: Globalization is indeed one of the big problems here
[13:29] Tessa Zalivstok: doesn't SL depend on electricity?
[13:29] Tessa Zalivstok: isn't that oil and gas
[13:29] druth Vlodovic: laws replace morality, and the need for it, but without them good and bad are subjective
[13:29] Gemma Allen: actually what we need is a good invasion of aliens to remind us the whole world is important
[13:29] herman Bergson: Yes it does Tessa
[13:29] Tessa Zalivstok: ah well.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: So we are the slaves of the RL world
[13:30] Gemma Allen: outer space aliens that is
[13:30] Debbie Dee: Globalization is killing diversity, and species.
[13:30] Tessa Zalivstok: Oh yes
[13:30] Tessa Zalivstok: that's why we should all stay at home
[13:30] Mick Nerido: we need to recognize we are all part of one community on planet earth...
[13:30] Tessa Zalivstok: that'd be the answer
[13:30] Kime Babenco: What is globalization ? Coca Cola in every corner of the world ? Or do you mean bringing PEOPLE closer together in mind and ideas ?
[13:30] Umae Ying: laws.... vs. deregulation
[13:30] Tessa Zalivstok: after all we just meet foreigners
[13:31] Umae Ying: the deregulating is why the bankers and wall street are getting away with this
[13:31] herman Bergson: Well, my friends ^_^
[13:31] Qwark Allen:
[13:31] herman Bergson: Thank you for such an enthusiast  response....
[13:31] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:31] Gemma Allen: we see where we are going with this
[13:31] Qwark Allen:
[13:31] Gemma Allen: big discussions
[13:31] druth Vlodovic: replacing laws with no laws is a dangerous path we are already on, I wish I did have an answer
[13:31] Qwark Allen: watch this 2 videos to have a idea what is going on on the world
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:32] Gemma Allen: i doubt it :-0
[13:32] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma ...I guess this will become a heavy project.....
[13:32] Umae Ying: LOOPHOLES
[13:32] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:32] Umae Ying: so itis legal
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: interesting for sure
[13:32] Bejiita Imako:
[13:32] herman Bergson: Let me ask your attention for some homework.....PLZ
[13:32] Mick Nerido: it's always messy when there is a paradigma shift
[13:32] Gemma Allen: oho
[13:33] Gemma Allen: homework
[13:33] Debbie Dee: homework ?
[13:33] Annie Brightstar: Ooooh homework
[13:33] herman Bergson: Behind me is a graphic...

[13:33] herman Bergson: Does the term purchasing power mean anything to you?
[13:33] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:33] Mick Nerido: yes
[13:33] Umae Ying: no
[13:33] Debbie Dee: yep
[13:33] Annie Brightstar: yes
[13:33] Catt: eys
[13:33] herman Bergson: ok...there is a let me explain.....
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: i think so
[13:33] Catt: yes
[13:34] .: Beertje :.: no
[13:34] Kime Babenco: What is power ?
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: i think basically is how willing we are to buy stuff
[13:34] herman Bergson: with your income you can buy goods and services....a certain amount of it....
[13:34] Lizzy Pleides: Kaufkraft in german
[13:34] Debbie Dee: actually - no. purchasing power of what?
[13:34] Mick Nerido: how much your money can buy
[13:34] herman Bergson: that is your purchasing power (very much oversimplified)
[13:34] Debbie Dee: ok
[13:34] Gemma Allen: it would be nice if you could allow us to take a copy
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:35] herman Bergson: Now you get a raise of you might think that your purchaceing power increases...
[13:35] Kime Babenco: Power in the ability to buy something... you mean ?
[13:35] herman Bergson: However.....prices go up 6%.....
[13:35] herman Bergson: Yes Kim....
[13:35] Gemma Allen: this is exactly what is going on with all of us ..... raises are not equal to getting ahead with purchasing power
[13:35] herman Bergson: This means that your purchasing power actually DECREASES with 1%
[13:36] Tessa Zalivstok: yes but on average this rarely happens
[13:36] Gemma Allen: except for the top %
[13:36] Mick Nerido: inflation
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: aaa then i get it
[13:36] Gemma Allen: they are becoming an oligarchy here in the usa
[13:36] herman Bergson: Well..Gemma...I think that you already got the picture ^_^
[13:36] Tessa Zalivstok: wages and prices tend to inflate at roughly the same rate which is the rate of increase of broad money
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: how much my money can buy
[13:36] herman Bergson: No no..Tessa.....
[13:36] Tessa Zalivstok: so what is the point of this graph?
[13:36] Tessa Zalivstok: yes yes Herman
[13:36] Gemma Allen: no they dont
[13:37] herman Bergson: at this moment there are elections in the Netherlands....September 12
[13:37] Umae Ying: in massechusetts... big people in suits are getting raises of around 20-30% and the little guys are hardly getting a raise at all...
[13:37] Gemma Allen: look at the tp percent!! everyone else is losing ground!!!
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: i heard some horrible things now before in sweden
[13:37] Tessa Zalivstok: yes they do because they are in one sense expressions of the same function which is the amount of broad money
[13:37] herman Bergson: And all politicians do do anything else than debating about the purchasing power of the people....
[13:37] Lizzy Pleides: it seemes money is made for industries, Banks and the finance ministers and a few rich people
[13:37] herman Bergson: does is go up or does it decrease...
[13:37] Tessa Zalivstok: money is made for exchanging goods and services
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: a lot of high organizations leaders have used our tax money and had parties for millions
[13:37] Tessa Zalivstok: as a store of value
[13:37] herman Bergson: this is independent of inflation etc....
[13:37] Gemma Allen: the only ones getting ahead are the top 10%
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: here in sweden
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: no good at all
[13:38] Tessa Zalivstok: it's easier to carty round that sheep
[13:38] Catt: herman to which graphic are you referring?
[13:38] Gemma Allen: here in USA it is the top 1%
[13:38] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma....
[13:38] herman Bergson: And the homework is....
[13:38] Tessa Zalivstok: Herman could you explain the point of your graph?
[13:38] herman Bergson: How do you interpret this graphic...
[13:38] Tessa Zalivstok: I'm not sure you've had a chance to
[13:38] Kime Babenco: Politicians run from one election to another.. that's why they don't do very much... only spreading popular ideas...
[13:39] herman Bergson: Tessa..the homework is that YOU explain the point of that graphic....^_^
[13:39] Gemma Allen: :-)
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: aaa ok
[13:39] Tessa Zalivstok: well
[13:39] Debbie Dee: Good one herman.
[13:39] Gemma AllenGemma Allen GIGGLES!!
[13:39] Gemma Allen: ...LOL...
[13:39] Gemma Allen: it is already done Herman
[13:39] Kime Babenco: I will try
[13:39] druth Vlodovic: what is the source of the graph?
[13:40] Tessa Zalivstok: unless you can give us a geographical and temporal frame I dont think it's explainable
[13:40] Gemma Allen: Make sure you re reading it properly
[13:40] herman Bergson: Anyone who has an idea about its interpretation, write it in a notecard and send it to me ....would be fun ^_^
[13:40] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:40] Gemma Allen: what is the source
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: i think i grasp it
[13:40] herman Bergson: The graphic applies only to the Netherlands...sorry Tessa ..I should have mentioned that
[13:40] Gemma Allen: is it global?? or a country graph
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:40] Gemma Allen: ah ok
[13:40] Catt: ok see it now, the whole room hadn't loaded for me
[13:40] Tessa Zalivstok: Herman all it says it that people with money can buy more than people without money
[13:40] Kime Babenco: It would be around here all week ?
[13:40] Tessa Zalivstok: next?
[13:40] Gemma Allen: our graph here is worse !!!!!!
[13:41] Gemma Allen: Herman
[13:41] herman Bergson: But I guess that it could be a global phenomenon
[13:41] Gemma Allen: make it copy for us
[13:41] Gemma Allen: we can bring it to inventory
[13:41] herman Bergson: as sec
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes can be handy to have
[13:41] Kime Babenco: Yes
[13:41] Bejiita Imako:
[13:41] Debbie Dee: I think it says that the low earners purchasing power is erode, and the top earners purchasing power is growing
[13:41] Debbie Dee: the rich are getting richer - doh!
[13:41] Gemma Allen: ok got it
[13:41] herman Bergson: should be able to take a copy of the graphic now
[13:42] druth Vlodovic: it says that the ability to buy as a percentage of what you could buy last year has changed, with some people being able to buy more and some less
[13:42] herman Bergson: Exactly Druth
[13:42] Tessa Zalivstok: there is no time line here Herman
[13:42] Kime Babenco: I haven'y
[13:42] Kime Babenco: t
[13:42] Tessa Zalivstok: minus ten per cent of what when where?
[13:42] druth Vlodovic: I assume the numbers at top and bottom are percentage points?
[13:42] Tessa Zalivstok: meaningless as it stands
[13:43] Gemma Allen: no it isnt
[13:43] herman Bergson: The black line, Tessa can be regarded as an index
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: as i get it the graph say that all but the ones with highest income have had increasing purchasing power and all others have weakend
[13:43] Annie Brightstar: Over what time scale
[13:43] Tessa Zalivstok: Herman if there's no time line it makes no sense
[13:43] Debbie Dee: Perfectly constructed graph - I agree with Bajita
[13:43] Kime Babenco: Ot says 2011
[13:43] herman Bergson: One year....only 2011 related to previous years
[13:44] Debbie Dee: it has a time point - 21011
[13:44] Tessa Zalivstok: percent of what?
[13:44] Annie Brightstar: Has it gone up 10% in a year
[13:44] Tessa Zalivstok: widgets?
[13:44] Annie Brightstar: or a millenium
[13:44] Tessa Zalivstok: bottles of milk?
[13:44] herman Bergson: You could read it as a real raise in salary Tessa
[13:44] herman Bergson: or a decrease of salary
[13:44] Tessa Zalivstok: herman raises in salary aren't raises in purchasing power
[13:44] Tessa Zalivstok: they night be
[13:45] Annie Brightstar: But over what period Herman
[13:45] Tessa Zalivstok: but not here
[13:45] herman Bergson: that is what I explained before
[13:45] Tessa Zalivstok: you have to talk about productivity of labor if you talk about the possibility of raising real wages
[13:45] herman Bergson: this is an increase /decrease of purchasing power..independent of inflation or raises in salary...
[13:46] herman Bergson: they are all used in the calculation of these percentages
[13:46] Tessa Zalivstok: you see that would be rubbish if it was true
[13:46] Tessa Zalivstok: thistory shows us clearly that as labor productivity rises then real wages rise along with it and real purchasing power
[13:46] Tessa Zalivstok: thats just a fact
[13:47] herman Bergson: believe me Tessa ...these are real figures calculated by the Dutch institute of statistics...
[13:47] druth Vlodovic: lol,you obviously know little about manufacturing tessa
[13:47] druth Vlodovic: productivity per worker tends to raise every year
[13:47] herman Bergson: I just ask..what does the graphic tell you..
[13:47] druth Vlodovic: but wages are currently frozen in many plants
[13:47] Debbie Dee: Herman, the graph is clear to me. Thanks.
[13:47] Tessa Zalivstok: yes but of what over what period of time
[13:48] Catt: wages are often frozen in many sectors
[13:48] herman Bergson: True Druth...
[13:48] Tessa Zalivstok: makes zero sense
[13:48] Kime Babenco: Prices rice when for some reason, for example a bad harvest, but never falll the year next when harvest is good again
[13:48] herman Bergson: One year...2011
[13:48] Debbie Dee: the time period is one year - 2011
[13:48] herman Bergson: in relation to 2012
[13:48] Annie Brightstar: Druth I know that I sit here in front of a computer and have a house and holidays abroad
[13:48] Tessa Zalivstok: oh so what
[13:48] herman Bergson: or the previous year
[13:48] Tessa Zalivstok: I can show you graphs over 30 years where all of those would go up
[13:48] Tessa Zalivstok: lots of them
[13:48] Tessa Zalivstok: more than otherwise
[13:48] Annie Brightstar: and I know that around 1900 the average life expectancy of my family was 40 years
[13:49] Tessa Zalivstok: way more than otherwise
[13:49] Annie Brightstar: and you try to tell me things are getting worse
[13:49] herman Bergson: Everyone may enjoy the graphic the way he or she likes...
[13:49] Qwark Allen: will get much worst when china economy collapses
[13:49] herman Bergson: my question is just: what does the graphic tell you
[13:49] Catt: So Tessa, are you suggesting that looking at just 1 year doesn't give us a big enough scope for the argument?
[13:49] herman Bergson: To some maybe nothing ^_^
[13:49] herman Bergson: that is ok
[13:50] Tessa Zalivstok: I can show you graphs that clearly demonstrate that over the past thirty hears in South Eest Asia every one of those deciles would show a real growth of hundreds of per cent
[13:50] Tessa Zalivstok: thousnads of per cent
[13:50] llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
[13:50] Tessa Zalivstok: what do you say to that Herman
[13:50] druth Vlodovic: compare the same graphs to ontario during the same period
[13:50] Tessa Zalivstok: and btw it's fuelled by oil and gas
[13:51] Tessa Zalivstok: and financed by evil bankers
[13:51] Tessa Zalivstok: Herman I would like you to address my question
[13:51] Lizzy Pleides: statistics are always useful for those who pay it
[13:51] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:51] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:51] Kime Babenco: My grandfather told me his father bought a house for what would now be equal as 250 US$... that was in 1920...
[13:51] herman Bergson: Tessa ..I do say nothing about the graphic....I leave it to anyone who has some idea about it
[13:52] Tessa Zalivstok: hw do you explain that in S E Asia and in many other places every one of those deciles has gone up by hundreds of per cent in the past thrity years?
[13:52] Catt: smiles at herman
[13:52] Gemma Allen: because they started from no where !!!
[13:52] Tessa Zalivstok: well?
[13:52] druth Vlodovic: outsourcing from western countries
[13:52] Gemma Allen: catching up
[13:52] herman Bergson: I am a philosopher...not an economist....:-))
[13:52] Umae Ying: yes because you start from zero
[13:52] Gemma Allen: right
[13:53] herman Bergson: And I love to keep it that way....
[13:53] Umae Ying: there is only up to go
[13:53] Tessa Zalivstok: because their productivity of labor has increased by multiples
[13:53] Gemma Allen: china is slowing down a bit now
[13:53] druth Vlodovic: which is why in much of the west things are getting tighter for the lower income brackets
[13:53] Gemma Allen: but still going
[13:53] Tessa Zalivstok: they used to produce 100 dollars per head
[13:53] Umae Ying: the secret is percentage....check percentage
[13:53] Kime Babenco: I don't live in USA , I only mentioned US$ so you would have an idea
[13:53] Catt: India is looking at Shanghai as a possible economic model
[13:53] Tessa Zalivstok: now they produce tens of thousands of dollars per head
[13:53] Tessa Zalivstok: simple
[13:53] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:53] Gemma Allen: we will finish the whole course in one day!!!
[13:53] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:53] Gemma Allen: time to go
[13:53] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:53] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:53] Lizzy Pleides: I must go off, night everybody
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: hahahah
[13:53] herman Bergson: Thank you Gemma....
[13:53] Gemma Allen: right
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: cu Lizzy
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: night
[13:53] Gemma Allen: yw
[13:53] Annie Brightstar: Night Lizzy
[13:53] druth Vlodovic: if one person produces ten thousand dollars a day and makes $100 is that a good thing?
[13:54] herman Bergson: and may I thank you all for your delightful participation...
[13:54] Qwark Allen: see you thursday
[13:54] druth Vlodovic: and why is that person's wages being frozen?
[13:54] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:54] Qwark Allen: ::::::::: * E * X * C * E * L * L * E * N * T  * ::::::::::
[13:54] Qwark Allen: start
[13:54] Qwark Allen: ¸¸.´ ¯¨.¸¸`** **´ ¸¸.¨¯` H E R MA N ´ ¯¨.¸¸`** **´ ¸¸.¨¯`
[13:54] herman Bergson: Thank you Qwark
[13:54] Umae Ying: that is better than making ten dollars a day and then getting ten cents more
[13:54] Debbie Dee: Bye lizzy
[13:54] Gemma Allen: see you thursday
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: well thats one thing, the bosses get bigger and bigger bonuses the workers doing all work nothing at all
[13:54] Gemma Allen: i hope
[13:54] .: Beertje :.: that was some start of the lectures :)))
[13:54] Debbie Dee: thanks a lot herman - nice to be back.
[13:54] druth Vlodovic: making ten cents more on ten dollars is a ten percent increase
[13:55] druth Vlodovic: a nice raise
[13:55] Kime Babenco: I am not sure Druth...
[13:55] druth Vlodovic: depending on inflation
[13:55] herman Bergson: Good to see you all again too :-))
[13:55] Bejiita Imako: ok cu all soon
[13:55] herman Bergson: Bye Bejiita
[13:55] druth Vlodovic: a fellow from Sudan told me that Canada is crazy, because here it takes more than one person to make enough money for two
[13:55] Debbie Dee: Bye fellow students - cu all on thursday
[13:55] druth Vlodovic: but back in his homeland one person makes enough for 20
[13:56] Kime Babenco: Only if you get lucky to become 100 years old, you live for 3,3 billion seconds... You lost almost 3600 by sitting here lol
[13:56] druth Vlodovic: from a straight dollar amount the person in Sudan makes less
[13:56] llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
[13:56] .: Beertje :.: have a goodnight all:) see you next thursday
[13:56] herman Bergson: Bye Beertje ^_^
[13:56] druth Vlodovic: ty for the lecture herman
[13:57] herman Bergson: My pleasure Druth
[13:57] .: Beertje :.: bye Herman:) and thank you
[13:57] druth Vlodovic: I'm glad your walls here are fireproof :)
[13:57] Kime Babenco: They have sharp dents there to bite coins in quarters
[13:57] Annie Brightstar: thank you Herman
[13:57] Kime Babenco: Thank you and bye Herman
[13:57] herman Bergson: You are welcome Annie
[13:58] Kime Babenco: Thursday back ?
[13:58] Catt: cheers herman, thanks!
[13:58] herman Bergson: thnx Catt... :-))
[13:58] Annie Brightstar: Good night
[13:59] herman Bergson: Bye Annie
[13:59] Tessa Zalivstok: good evening Herman
[13:59] herman Bergson: Bye Tessa ^_^
[14:00] Kime Babenco: Bye herman
[14:00] herman Bergson: Bye Kime
[14:01] herman Bergson: hmmm a good start and a lively class ^_^

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