Sunday, March 17, 2013

462: The Art Not to Be an Egoist 27

Is the willingness to wage war an intrinsic feature of human nature, in other words, where there are men there is war?

The answer is simple.  The answer is NO. All swans are white. Is that statement true? No, for I have found a black swan.

One day or another in history every people on this earth goes to war. Is this statement true? The answer is NO. There are about  a 70 peoples on this earth that use no violence, nor ever fought a war.

Yet there is the theory that it is in our genes to be aggressive. Such theorists always point at nature where male animals fight for and defend their females.

Then there is the territory theory. When early men were nomads they easily could avoid each other, but as we became farmers we developed land as our property that had to be defended.

And there always is enough aggression. With the "survival of the fittest" in hand some claim that aggression therefore prevailed in evolution.

Comparisons with the animal kingdom are popular but lack real proof. And the selfish gen at war to proliferate itself as much as possible, leads to peculiar questions.

Are the deepest drives for modern wars like Iraq, Afganistan, Libya at the end motivated by the drive of human nature to proliferate its genes?

Sure, almost all people are capable of aggression against others and many are also willing to use violence. But this is still far from a predisposition to war. 

War, and that is the whole point, is not particularly just the expansion of aggression with greater resources. An aggressive person is not  inevitably or by definition also a violent person.

Some turn their aggression for instance against themselves and become depressive. Others show it with mean looks, mean or angry remarks. 

And most of the time is our aggression against people in our immediate environment and not against nations. In that sense it shows that aggression is hardly enough drive to go to war against a people, that you not even know personally.

in other words, war is not just the escalation of a biologically dark side of human nature. No aggressive drive and no genetic fitness strategy is forcing us to attack our neighboring countries.

But if this all is true, then why are their yet wars in this world. First we may conclude that not a single war can be justified by saying: "Ah well, that is human nature. We can't help it."

The Swizz professor of ethology,  Jürg Helbling, of the university of Luzern gives us this explanation:
"The biological hardware and the biologically determined predisposition of man to violent behavior allows violent but also peaceful behavior, and it depends on the social and cultural software, how people actually behave."

War is not the unavoidable consequence of our human nature. Maybe you should listen more carefully to the propaganda…sorry, of course, we call it political opinions.

Then you learn the truth, for the mother of all wars is not the pursuit of evil and not the ruthless pursuing of  interests. It is the fear for our life and the perceived threat to our self-esteem.

And then, 20 September 2001, I hear US President George W. Bush. During a televised address to a joint session of congress, 

he stated that, "our 'war on terror' begins with al-Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated."

What is he installing in our brains? FEAR…and it works….

The Discussion

[13:23] herman Bergson: Thank you ^_^
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: Bush is insane Id say, an agressive war starter, the first thing he did when he came to power whas to start mass execution of prisoners
[13:24] herman Bergson: \/
[13:24] herman Bergson: peace
[13:24] Gemma Allen: it will never be over
[13:24] Gemma Allen: :-)
[13:24] herman Bergson: yes will
[13:24] Gemma Allen: i doubt it
[13:24] Gemma Allen: according to bush
[13:25] herman Bergson: it all depends on the willingness of all people on earth to coopereate....
[13:25] Gemma Allen: all terrorist organizations
[13:25] Gemma Allen: must go
[13:25] herman Bergson: manage their aggression...
[13:25] .: Beertje :.: i think there will be more war..not about oil..but about water
[13:25] Gemma Allen: and a terrorist is often in the eyes of the beholder
[13:25] herman Bergson: there may be wars in the near future...
[13:26] Gemma Allen: a terrorist can become prim minister
[13:26] Merlin: Yes Beertje, water will become a big issue soon for some people
[13:26] herman Bergson: but our question is...
[13:26] Gemma Allen: president
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: the danger of fighting back is that it might lead and did lead to more terror, like the Subway bombs in london
[13:26] herman Bergson: is mankind a bunch of egoists or is it a colony of cooperative beings...
[13:26] Gemma Allen: both i think
[13:26] herman Bergson: what will prevail in the long run??? THAT is the question
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: but the tricky part is we still need to stop those terrorists cause they are totally insane
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: vary dangerous people
[13:27] Gemma Allen: again who is really a terrorist
[13:27] herman Bergson: Bejiita...
[13:27] Merlin: Well, you know my views about the long term prospects for mankind
[13:27] herman Bergson: We are not talking about such details...:-)
[13:27] herman Bergson: we know how our world looks like
[13:28] herman Bergson: we are talking about human nature and its future
[13:28] Gemma Allen: with hope
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: well i just hope that it is as u say that we are all sort of good on the insode
[13:28] Gemma Allen: i stil think the best thing for mankind would be invasion by aliens
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: I am 100 %
[13:28] Bejiita Imako:
[13:28] herman Bergson: Just to give you some idea...
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: hehe ok
[13:28] Gemma Allen: we would be together fast!!
[13:29] herman Bergson: the number of people killed in wars has decreased during the centuries
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: aha
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: right direction at least
[13:29] .: Beertje :.: 1 life is still too much
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: u cant value a life indeed
[13:30] herman Bergson: when everybody would think so Beertje we are on the right track
[13:30] herman Bergson: and many more people think so nowadays
[13:31] herman Bergson: Due to the internet the proliferation of knowledge and information is so big....
[13:31] herman Bergson: We all know that education is the key
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:31] .: Beertje :.: how to make a bomb...yes
[13:32] herman Bergson: a coin has always two sides indeed Beertje
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: powerful medium, thats why china censor it so hard and north korea totally blocks it so the people cant learn that he is really a bad guy and what is really happening in the worrld
[13:32] herman Bergson: but you need only one fool to make a bomb while the majority of peole love to learn better things
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: information is the power of freedom
[13:33] .: Beertje :.: one fool started ww2..
[13:33] Lizzy Pleides: true Bejita
[13:33] herman Bergson: no Beertje..that is historically incorrect...
[13:33] Lizzy Pleides: we had many fools in history
[13:33] Gemma AllenGemma Allen GIGGLES!!
[13:33] Gemma Allen: ...LOL...
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: also with devices like my galaxy S3 i have acess to valuable information wherever I go, so i can keep myself always updated
[13:33] MerlinMerlin laughs
[13:34] .: Beertje :.: smiles
[13:34] Merlin: Are you being sponsored Bejiita?
[13:34] herman Bergson: Is that why your hair is always upright Bejiita...?
[13:34] herman Bergson: totally updated? :-)
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hahaha no, just think it is the best one cause I'm so happy with it
[13:34] Lizzy Pleides: lol
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hahaha
[13:35] .: Beertje :.: i think there always be fools..not only in the past but always
[13:35] herman Bergson: You all didn't looked impressed by my explanation why there is war?
[13:35] herman Bergson: Was it that obvious to you all? ^_^
[13:36] Gemma Allen: i think so
[13:36] Gemma Allen: :-)
[13:36] Bejiita Imako:
[13:36] herman Bergson grins
[13:36] Merlin: I came across some extracts from The Naked Ape book today
[13:36] herman Bergson: I know I have a smart class :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :.: i have to read it over I guess
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: hehe yes u have
[13:37] .: Beertje :.: hmm..i'm not one of them..
[13:37] Merlin: Desmond Morris says some things about human conflicts
[13:37] herman Bergson: Desmond Morris, Merlin?
[13:37] Merlin: Yes :)
[13:37] herman Bergson: then keep in mind....
[13:37] herman Bergson: on the one hand there is aggression in the individual..
[13:38] herman Bergson: and on the other hand there is collective aggression: war
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:38] herman Bergson: and then, how an author tries to link these two
[13:39] herman Bergson: My conclusion is that we are manipulated into a war by a ruling class that wants to protect its interests..or even EGO
[13:39] Gemma Allen: there you go
[13:39] Gemma Allen: exactly
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: aaa very much possible
[13:39] Merlin: Well I think that was true of WW1
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: brainwashed
[13:39] herman Bergson: And that class does that by playing on our sentiment of fear...
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: or similar
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: and u can clearly see that with groups like al qaida
[13:40] herman Bergson: Sadam Hussein should have had weapons of mass destruction....
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: Jihad
[13:40] herman Bergson: he had oil.....that was the point
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: yes thats also a theory
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: Usa wanted the oil
[13:41] Gemma Allen: i am nto sure of that oil thing we have never benefited from the oil
[13:41] herman Bergson: He had taken Kuweit (oil)...that was the point
[13:41] Lizzy Pleides: of course herman, i agree
[13:41] Gemma Allen: in over 10 years now
[13:41] Gemma Allen: and we wont
[13:41] Merlin: I never thought Oil was a credible explanation for the Iraq war
[13:41] herman Bergson: No Gemma.....but Europe needed that oil
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: well every american are addicted to their cars and the entire society is circulation around it
[13:41] Gemma Allen: but we didn't care about that
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: u need a car to go from place to place cause great distances
[13:41] Merlin: Yes they are Bejiita
[13:41] Gemma Allen: i don't believer that part
[13:41] herman Bergson: th eUS gets its oil from Veneuela and Saoudi Arabia
[13:42] Merlin: Yes Bej, it is not even safe to walk out in the street there
[13:42] Gemma Allen: we are now supplying more of our own oil that never before
[13:42] Gemma Allen: here in the us
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: nope even here in sweden people drive like maniacs
[13:42] herman Bergson: yes indeed Gemma
[13:42] Gemma Allen: and now have mucho natural gass
[13:42] Gemma Allen: enough to export
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: id say we have gone from industrial through IT and now we live in the stress and consumption society
[13:43] herman Bergson: that broke down Bejiita....
[13:44] herman Bergson: ever growing consumption is no issue anymore
[13:44] Gemma Allen: well i wonder about that
[13:44] herman Bergson: they talk about consumer's thrust here.....
[13:44] Gemma Allen: agriculture for the world is becoming an issue
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: maybe a bit halted now however still everyone need the latest even of what they have works and when some new thing comes out they jump in the car and drive like maniacs to get it
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:44] Lizzy Pleides: we are all living in a system that forces us to consume
[13:45] Merlin: Galaxy S3?
[13:45] .: Beertje :.: lol Merlin
[13:45] herman Bergson: yes Lizzy....but in the Netherlands the consumer's trust is down....
[13:45] Merlin: (whatever that is)
[13:45] herman Bergson: it means...people dont buy new things anymore...
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: haha yes but ai boy things i expect them to last a while, i will not rush for the S4 now for ex
[13:45] herman Bergson: keep their money in their purse
[13:46] Lizzy Pleides: our taxsystem is based on consumption and economic growth
[13:46] Merlin: hehehe
[13:46] Gemma Allen: i think that wiol change
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: and my TV i ve had since i moved in and still works so shy throw it away
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: why
[13:46] Merlin: I know one reason.....
[13:46] Gemma Allen: well because there are such better ones now
[13:46] Merlin: Stop watching telly!
[13:46] Gemma Allen: adn they use less power too
[13:47] .: Beertje :.: my monitor broke...and I repaired it myself..for 5 euro..:)
[13:47] Gemma Allen: LOL
[13:47] .: Beertje :.: one can learn how to repair things
[13:47] Gemma Allen: good for you
[13:47] Lizzy Pleides: wow great beertje!
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: thats nice
[13:47] herman Bergson: wow Beertje :-)
[13:47] Lizzy Pleides: i bring you an old from me
[13:47] .: Beertje :.: grins
[13:47] herman Bergson: I guess that is why you look so good today...and that for only 5 euro :-))
[13:48] Gemma Allen: collects fixebles to mail to beertje
[13:48] herman Bergson: I'll mail you an old monitor myself Beertje :-)
[13:48] .: Beertje :.: smiles...condensators?..broke..they are build for 3 years..then the will brake down
[13:48] .: Beertje :.: i just put some new in.
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:48] Lizzy Pleides: that is true Beertje
[13:48] herman Bergson: Well
[13:49] herman Bergson: we are so far off subject now....
[13:49] Gemma Allen: i would break anything trying to fix it
[13:49] Merlin: Oh you mean electrical capacitors Beertje?
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: have never had condenser probs though but i have seen cases
[13:49] Lizzy Pleides: some LEDs are made for 1000 hours only
[13:49] herman Bergson: Next lecture will be on inexpensive monitor repair
[13:49] Gemma Allen: ok
[13:49] herman Bergson: presented by Beertje :-)
[13:49] Lizzy Pleides: Hahahaha.....    
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: my amplifer i've had very long even before i moved in and still run like a charm
[13:49] .: Beertje :.: lol
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: some really bog ones in there
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: big
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: however they can dry out
[13:49] herman Bergson: You can do it Beertje :-))
[13:50] .: Beertje :.: no:)
[13:50] herman Bergson: Anyway...thank you all again for your participation
[13:50] Merlin: You could do it on the Wednesda
[13:50] Gemma Allen: herman
[13:50] Gemma Allen: Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!!
[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: hehe this was great

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