Wednesday, June 5, 2013

480: Yi Ching continued


A question, which now and then surfaces in my mind is: "What will be the future of The Philosophy Class?" Who can tell? There is only one answer: the Yi Ching. So I consulted it.

The result was a so called hexagram. I used coins as divination method. How that works isn't relevant at this moment. The outcome was:

                                        ____   ____
                                        ____   ____
                                        ____   ____
                                        ____   ____
                                        _________
                                        ____   ____

The name of this hexagram is Sze, The Army. Symbolic of: the mass of humanity. 

Sze indicates how, in the case which it supposes, with firmness and correctness, and a leader of age and experience, there will be good fortune and no error.
The JUDGEMENT tells you in which circumstance this sign is favourable or not. And it is: The army needs perseverance And a strong man. Good fortune without blame.

The IMAGE describes the powers of the two trigrams that depict your circumstance. And it says: In the middle of the earth is water: The image of the Army.Thus the superior man increases his masses by generosity toward the people.

Besides that every line gets an interpretation, where line one is the bottom line. The meaning of line 2 is: 

"The second line, undivided, shows  the leader  in the midst of the host. There will be good fortune and no error. The king has thrice conveyed to him the orders of his favour."

I don't know how you read this, but I read that through my perseverance and generosity to the people the class will flourish and prosper. Thus according to old Chinese wisdom.

The Yi Ching is old. The original name was Yi  or Zhouyi. During the Han Dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE) Ching was added to the name. From that time until the Confucian classics Yi is often translated with "change".

The oldest manuscript that has been found, albeit incomplete, dates back to the Warring States Period (475–221 BCE).

During the Warring States Period, the text was re-interpreted as a system of cosmology and philosophy that subsequently became intrinsic to Chinese culture. 

It centered on the ideas of the dynamic balance of opposites, the evolution of events as a process, and acceptance of the inevitability of change.

The subject-matter of the text may be briefly represented as consisting of sixty-four short essays, enigmatically and symbolically expressed, 

on important themes, mostly of a moral, social, and political character, and based on the same number of lineal figures, each made up of six lines, some of which are whole and the others divided.

The ancient Chinese were distinguished by a mathematical turn of mind. For, while the literature of all other nations begins with religious hymns and mythological lore of some kind, the oldest documents of the Chinese exhibit arithmetical devices.

Traditionally, the creation of the Yi Ching is attributed to the mythical emperor Fu Xi. (3322 BCE) He would supernaturally have obtained the  knowledge of the eight trigrams when he saw how water was dripping from the shell of a turtle.

And here we learn of the famous concepts of Yin and Yang. Yang means "bright," and Yin "dark." Yang is the principle of heaven, Yin is the principle of earth. 

Yang is the sun, Yin is the moon. Yang is, as we should say, positive; Yin is negative. Yang is, as the Chinese say, masculine and active. 

Yin is feminine and passive. The former is motion, the latter is rest. Yang is strong, rigid, lordlike; Yin is mild, pliable, submissive, wifelike. 

Yang was originally represented by a small, bright circle (o), Yin by a small, dark circle (•), but in their combinations these symbols were replaced by full and broken lines, " __  __"and "_____".

A group of three elementary lines is called "Kwa". Behind me you see a diagram of the 8 trigrams and their meanings.

All the things in the world,  man included, are thought to be
compounds of Yang and Yin elements. In this way the Chinese philosophy has become a theory of permutation, and the origin of all things is traced to a change in the combinations of Yang and Yin.


The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you..:-))
[13:21] Gemma Allen: interesting
[13:21] Loo Zeta-Ah: thanks
[13:21] Sigmund Oppenbaum: So, Chinese Philosophy is based on a binary system?
[13:21] Lizzy Pleides: Thank you!
[13:22] Gemma Allen: the idea of the mathematical beginning
[13:22] herman Bergson: If you have any questions or remarks...the floor is yours ^_^
[13:22] Anne Tee Chu: great
[13:22] Gemma Allen: as the root of the philosophy
[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma...surprised me too
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: aaa
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: interesting
[13:23] .: Beertje :.: what a difference with our philosophy
[13:23] herman Bergson: But I was very pleased with my fortune as predicted by the Yi Ching :-)
[13:23] Gemma Allen: ah
[13:23] Loo Zeta-Ah: :)
[13:24] herman Bergson: Sze tells me that if I lead my army well all will be well :-)
[13:24] Gemma Allen: ah
[13:24] Anne Tee Chu: Isn't the I Ching more a religion as an philosophical way of life?
[13:24] .: Beertje :.: lucky you:)
[13:24] Gemma Allen: and i is military also
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes Anne....
[13:24] Gemma Allen: in structure
[13:24] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Does Sze know you are trying to lead Western army into battle with Chinese Philosophy?
[13:24] Sigmund Oppenbaum: :-)
[13:25] herman Bergson: the "problem" with this project is that it is about Non Western Philosophy....
[13:25] Anne Tee Chu: okeee I understand^^
[13:25] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:25] herman Bergson: but where we make a sharp distinction between theology and philosophy....
[13:25] Gemma Allen: different for sure
[13:25] Loo Zeta-Ah: yes all that we hold 'true' is not
[13:25] herman Bergson: Chinese philosophy doesn't.
[13:26] Anne Tee Chu: I think the same. Is it possible to make difference between these things?
[13:26] herman Bergson: but it would be too arrogant to just dismiss all Now Western Philosophy as plain theology
[13:26] Loo Zeta-Ah: It is a form of interpretation...?
[13:26] Anne Tee Chu: religion and philosophy
[13:26] Anne Tee Chu: also in the western land
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes Loo...
[13:26] herman Bergson: it is an interpretation of reality....
[13:26] Anne Tee Chu: it also is....
[13:27] Anne Tee Chu: always
[13:27] Anne Tee Chu: i mean
[13:27] herman Bergson: and the Chinese did it completely different ...
[13:27] herman Bergson: For us it is hard to understand...
[13:28] herman Bergson: But on the other hand...this philosophy..this Yi Ching dominated Chinese thinking for centuries...up to now even
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: it is a bit difference for sure
[13:28] Gemma Allen: well if we call it a good and the yin yang
[13:28] Gemma Allen: ”°º× √ιℓ ׺°”
[13:28] Loo Zeta-Ah: I have Monty Python going through my head... 'and now for something completely different'
[13:28] Gemma Allen: I sorry..
[13:28] Gemma Allen: oops I'm Sorry!
[13:28] Anne Tee Chu: I guess Chinese do not change thinking so often as we do^^
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: hahaha
[13:29] herman Bergson: well..one thing about the Yi Ching makes even sense for us....
[13:29] Loo Zeta-Ah: It is about balance
[13:29] Gemma Allen: that makes sense tho ... good and evil. dark and light
[13:29] Anne Tee Chu: and i do not know if changing fast is good for us
[13:29] Gemma Allen: as in the western philosophy
[13:29] herman Bergson: It was not just a divination tool in the sense that it would predict the future...
[13:29] herman Bergson: it was a counseling tool ...
[13:29] herman Bergson: You have a problem....
[13:29] herman Bergson: you ponder about it...
[13:30] herman Bergson: gather your ideas and conclusions...
[13:30] herman Bergson: then...you consult the Yi Ching...
[13:30] Gemma Allen: ”°º× √ιℓ ׺°”
[13:30] Gemma Allen: i like the yin yang because it is blended together into one light and dark good and
[13:30] Anne Tee Chu: like tarot
[13:30] Gemma Allen: oh gosh
[13:30] Gemma Allen: i am wearing a nice one
[13:30] herman Bergson: The texts are so enigmatic....
[13:30] Loo Zeta-Ah: yes I was thinking tarot
[13:30] herman Bergson: you study them...
[13:31] herman Bergson: the result may be that it brings you new ideas....makes you change your mind...
[13:31] Loo Zeta-Ah: pack of cards randomly mixed you use them to interpret
[13:31] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:31] Gemma Allen: qwark. is a reader of tarot
[13:31] Anne Tee Chu: yes just symbols to meditate over you can say
[13:31] herman Bergson: People do it with the bible too....
[13:31] Gemma Allen: if you ever want it read
[13:31] Anne Tee Chu: q is a tarot reader???
[13:31] Anne Tee Chu: cool
[13:31] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:31] Gemma Allen: he is
[13:31] herman Bergson: You ponder about a problem
[13:31] Anne Tee Chu: did not know that
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: aaa ok
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: cool
[13:32] .: Beertje :.: wow cool Gemma
[13:32] Gemma Allen: he has a set in sl also
[13:32] Anne Tee Chu: we should book a session with him^^
[13:32] herman Bergson: you pick up the bible and open it at a random page and point at a verse...
[13:32] Gemma Allen: you could
[13:32] Gemma Allen: he has done it
[13:32] Anne Tee Chu: good to know
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: tarot is interesting
[13:32] Loo Zeta-Ah: Well I don't I read scripture in context
[13:33] herman Bergson: No no...you just read the verse.....and try to combine it or relate it to the problem you are pondering about....
[13:33] Sigmund Oppenbaum: My concern would be that Tarot and random scripture leave little room for objective contemplation
[13:33] Loo Zeta-Ah: well you can :)
[13:34] herman Bergson: Objective contemplation......
[13:34] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Well, I don't know about scripture, it is much more varied than Tarot
[13:34] herman Bergson: What should that be Sigmund?
[13:34] Gemma Allen: well there are many more books in the scripture
[13:34] Lizzy Pleides: it seems to be a more associative way of thinking
[13:34] herman Bergson: I mean..where does the objectivity come from?
[13:35] Anne Tee Chu: yes lizzy
[13:35] Gemma Allen: it is more subjective
[13:35] Gemma Allen: tarot is
[13:35] herman Bergson: yes it is Lizzy...
[13:35] Anne Tee Chu: do we have objective?
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: true
[13:35] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Well, Professor, I would say that objective contemplation would be the ability to think precisely without the aid of any superstitious means
[13:35] Loo Zeta-Ah: and have to be placed in historical context.... like this.... where did it come from?
[13:35] herman Bergson: doesn't matter what you read or see...a verse or a tarot card.....it leads to rethinking your situation...with new (strange) input
[13:35] Gemma Allen: but that seems to be subjective tho
[13:36] Anne Tee Chu: why strange input?
[13:36] herman Bergson: Clear Sigmund....ok!
[13:36] Gemma Allen: when you contemplate you almost always become subjective
[13:36] Anne Tee Chu: i guess its what your mind tells you
[13:36] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Indeed, but is said input necessarily helpful when faced with a complicated problem?
[13:36] herman Bergson: I already thought you meant that.....
[13:36] Gemma Allen: that is what i mean
[13:36] Lizzy Pleides: normally i would say that real objectivity is impossible
[13:36] Gemma Allen: exactly
[13:37] Anne Tee Chu: your subconscious mind
[13:37] herman Bergson: Ok...let's get back to the brain.....
[13:37] herman Bergson: how does it operate...
[13:37] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Perfect objectivity is an ideal, I would say
[13:37] herman Bergson: we have two systems....
[13:38] herman Bergson: one controlled by the prefrontal cortex....and one controlled by the limbic system....to give a rough outline
[13:38] Loo Zeta-Ah: well there is autism that can give people objectivity
[13:38] herman Bergson: the first one we call rationality....the second intuition
[13:39] herman Bergson: 90% of our mental activity is intuitive....
[13:39] herman Bergson: afterwards we think it over
[13:39] herman Bergson: that is your objective contemplation Sigmund...
[13:39] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Indeed
[13:39] Anne Tee Chu: ^^
[13:40] herman Bergson: But as you know...it can get stuck in a circle...
[13:40] herman Bergson: always repeating the same arguments....
[13:40] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Uh-haa
[13:40] Gemma Allen: true why i call it more subjective
[13:40] Sigmund Oppenbaum: That is where the lucky dice comes in
[13:40] Gemma Allen: ,lol
[13:41] herman Bergson: and then such things like tarot or Yi Ching could disrupt that circle reasoning....with new input...
[13:41] Sigmund Oppenbaum: A very random one
[13:41] herman Bergson: but what I mean is only.....that it is a psychological trick...
[13:42] herman Bergson: just to make you look at the problem in another way...
[13:42] Anne Tee Chu: we often need tricks to train our brain
[13:42] Anne Tee Chu: train
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: stimulus
[13:42] Anne Tee Chu: or habits
[13:42] herman Bergson: and I think that thus the Yi Ching was used by the Chinese...
[13:42] Gemma Allen: ah
[13:42] herman Bergson: Not to predict factual things....
[13:42] Loo Zeta-Ah: Or people place blind faith in them to detriment also
[13:43] herman Bergson: but to make you think it over again with new ideas...
[13:43] Anne Tee Chu: my question is often what factual things are^^^
[13:43] Gemma Allen: very good
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes
[13:43] herman Bergson: Like my prediction of the future of this class.....
[13:43] Gemma Allen: and it must work it is very old and still used
[13:43] herman Bergson: in fact it isn't a prediction at all...
[13:44] Anne Tee Chu: mhh.....
[13:44] herman Bergson: I need to lead the troops...period :-)
[13:44] Gemma Allen: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:44] Bejiita Imako:
[13:44] herman Bergson: and of course :-))
[13:44] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Could it not be argued that such thought-circles could be overcome with patient, logical deliberation instead?
[13:44] Gemma Allen: have been doing that a long time
[13:44] Loo Zeta-AhLoo Zeta-Ah gets out sword to be warrior
[13:45] herman Bergson: Well Sigmund.....yes....but then you are already in Emotional cognitive therapy :-)
[13:46] herman Bergson: Or is it called Cognitive Therapy :-)
[13:46] Gemma Allen: i think that the Chinese philosophers were doing that all these centuries sigmund
[13:46] Gemma Allen: just as the western have
[13:46] Gemma Allen: and here we are
[13:46] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma....they were obsessed by preventing conflicts....and stimulated social stability
[13:47] Loo Zeta-Ah: I wonder if the Chinese have the same mental health issues.... must ask Vidz
[13:47] Gemma Allen: hmmm
[13:47] Gemma Allen: interesting thought
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: indeed
[13:47] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Tarot card reading was not ever received into mainstream Western Philosophical thinking, however
[13:47] herman Bergson: They have a different perspective on life...definitely
[13:48] Gemma Allen: no it has not
[13:48] Loo Zeta-Ah whispers: Apparently they are different, mental health is culturally dependant (Vidz Ah from RL)
[13:48] herman Bergson: Sigmund...it isn't philosophy at all neither is the Yi Ching...:-)
[13:48] herman Bergson: I never discussed the Tarot here :-)
[13:49] Anne Tee Chu: you should!
[13:49] Anne Tee Chu: ^^
[13:49] herman Bergson: But the Yo Ching is so interwoven with Chinese thinking and history....
[13:49] Gemma Allen: i don't think he considers it a philosophy
[13:49] herman Bergson: of course not Gemma :-))
[13:49] Anne Tee Chu: i think it is
[13:49] Gemma Allen: ;-)
[13:49] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Okay...
[13:49] herman Bergson: But it is fun...that I admit
[13:49] Loo Zeta-Ah: It is a way of life
[13:49] Sigmund Oppenbaum laughs
[13:50] Gemma Allen: qwak, considers it a tool i think
[13:50] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Okay, I do just want to understand :-)
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: a philosophical tool maybe
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: dont know
[13:50] herman Bergson: Yes I could see it as a tool too Gemma....no problem with that
[13:50] herman Bergson: But the problem with fortune telling is...that ...
[13:50] Gemma Allen: he believes in the readings
[13:50] Anne Tee Chu: philosophy is also a tool
[13:50] Anne Tee Chu: to understand life
[13:51] herman Bergson: when you believe in it it makes the world 100% deterministic
[13:51] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:51] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Philosophy is surely not at tool, Anne?
[13:51] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:51] herman Bergson: which leads to the problem of free will
[13:51] Anne Tee Chu: there is no free will^^
[13:51] Sigmund Oppenbaum: What is the Chinese view on free will?
[13:51] Loo Zeta-Ah: It is a tool to understand
[13:51] herman Bergson: if I can tell your fortune Gemma...what is your say in that...nothing anymore...
[13:52] herman Bergson: you are just a causal machine
[13:52] Gemma Allen: things change
[13:52] Gemma Allen: as soon as you use a tool things can change
[13:52] Anne Tee Chu: things have to change that is life
[13:52] Anne Tee Chu: also thinking has to change
[13:52] herman Bergson: I have to study on that question Sigmund :-)
[13:52] Gemma Allen: good question sigmund
[13:53] Sigmund Oppenbaum: I would be interested to know, Professor. It is a very serious Western preoccupation.
[13:53] Loo Zeta-Ah: Mmmm culturally Chinese are submissive into the greater food
[13:53] Loo Zeta-Ah: *good
[13:53] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Greater food?! LOL!
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: hahahaha
[13:53] Gemma AllenGemma Allen GIGGLES!!
[13:53] Gemma Allen: ...LOL...
[13:53] Gemma Allen: makes sense
[13:53] Loo Zeta-Ah: ohh my typos tonight I am tired
[13:53] herman Bergson: Chinese restaurants Loo?
[13:53] Gemma Allen: yum
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: loves asian stuff
[13:53] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Ha ha ha ha!
[13:53] Loo Zeta-Ah: mm yum
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: yummy
[13:53] herman Bergson: yeah....
[13:53] Loo Zeta-Ah: I love sweet and sour
[13:53] herman Bergson: Yes me too...
[13:54] Loo Zeta-Ah: ying and yang in a bowl
[13:54] Gemma Allen: i am into garlic chicken
[13:54] .: Beertje :.: ordering nr 148....
[13:54] .: Beertje :.: lol
[13:54] Vadaman: hihi
[13:54] Anne Tee Chu: ah to much additives in food^^^
[13:54] herman Bergson: Well I guess then I wish you all a nice Chinese meal today :-)
[13:54] Gemma Allen: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: additives indeed
[13:54] herman Bergson: and thank you for your participation :-)
[13:54] .: Beertje :.: yes nr 621...
[13:54] Vadaman: Thank you so much Herman.
[13:54] .: Beertje :.: ieks
[13:54] Gemma Allen: actually had the veggies yesterday
[13:54] Gemma Allen: stir fried
[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed
[13:54] Anne Tee Chu: have a lovely evening all
[13:54] Sigmund Oppenbaum: Thank you, Professor!
[13:54] Loo Zeta-Ah: thanks
[13:54] Lizzy Pleides: Thank you herman
[13:55] Gemma Allen: hope i can make it thursday
[13:55] Bejiita Imako: great as usual
[13:55] Bejiita Imako:







1 comment:

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    ReplyDelete