Wednesday, March 11, 2015

571: Is Intelligent Design an answer?

If  ontological arguments for the existence of a god don’t work out that well, we need another approach, more contemporary. Intelligent Design theory is such an attempt.
Intelligent design (ID) is an anti-evolution belief asserting that naturalistic explanations of some biological entities 
are not possible and such entities can only be explained by intelligent causes. 
A naturalistic worldview holds the hypothesis that the natural world is a closed system in the sense that nothing that is not a part of the natural world affects it.
As such, naturalism implies that there are no supernatural entities, such as gods, angels, demons, ghosts, or other spirits, or at least none that actually exercises its power to affect the natural world.
However, advocates of ID maintain that their belief is scientific too and provides empirical proof for the existence of a god or super-intelligent aliens. 
ID maintains, that evolution  and natural selection is wrong and therefor Intelligent Design is right. One example from Michael Behe, author of Darwin's Black Box (1996), Associate Professor of Biochemistry at Lehigh University
His argument hinges on the notion of "irreducibly complex systems," systems that could not function if they were missing just one of their many parts. 
”Irreducibly complex systems ... cannot evolve in a Darwinian fashion," he says, because natural selection works on small mutations in just one component at a time. 
He then leaps to the conclusion that intelligent design must be responsible for these irreducibly complex systems.
Typical for ID reasoning is, that rather than provide positive evidence for their own position, they mainly try to find weaknesses in natural selection.
But there is another more serious questionable point of view. ID  protagonists say….it is either evolution (which is wrong) or Intelligent Design.
We all understand the statement “It is either red OR  green”. We know it can not be both at the same time, so red excluded green and visa versa.
This dichotomy Intelligent Design versus evolution and natural selection also refers to such a dichotomy, but in this care it is a logical  fallacy. Why should they be mutual exclusive?
There is no evidence of design beyond what some people perceive there to be. In addition, given that we have evolved with an innate ability to recognize patterns, 
it is expected that we will find design all around us, but nothing suggests that anything about it was designed in any way. 
The "appearance of design implies a designer" is an argument from incredulity. The person making the claim, that something looks designed and so can not have come about from evolution, 
is relying on their own lack of imagination and understanding of evolutionary process, rather than it being an inherent fault in the theory. 
The reasoning is something like this. 
I can’t imagine or have not imagined how the world can be the result of a random process of evolution; thence evolution is not true.
What is not said here is the assumption, that if the world is the result of a random evolutionary process, then we could imagine  or would have imagined why this is the case.
However, if a state of affairs is impossible to imagine, it doesn't follow that it is false; it may only mean that imagination is limited. 
Moreover, if no one has yet managed to imagine how a state of affairs is possible, it doesn't follow that no one will ever be able to.
Last but not least there is the question of the relation between the Designer and our reality and the question who designed the Designer
or the question “What was the Designer doing before he actually designed the world” and last but not least,
what kind of designer designs a world where your child dies young of leukemia and you yourself can get the most horrible diseases yourself?
Thank you again….the floor is yours.. ^_^

The Discussion

Bejiita Imako: hmm indeed, dont believe in ID either
Daruma Boa claps
herman Bergson: I had to mention it because they fight atheism with a lot of energy
Bejiita Imako: who would create disease and such by will , unless it is a bug in their design that is not possible to correct
Bejiita Imako: a mistake in their design
Daruma Boa: but imagination is limited I do not think that...
herman Bergson: They went at least 50 time to court in the US to get ID in the educational program
CB Axel: It drives me crazy that people want ID taught in schools.
Bejiita Imako: dont make sense indeed
herman Bergson: But the most remarkable I find is that kind of reasoning....
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why fight the atheism? aren't we free to believe what we want?
CB Axel: Keep it in church school!
Daruma Boa: Sorry I guess I missed something. What is ID
Daruma Boa: Identity card?^^
herman Bergson: When you see something complex, it necessarily presupposes a designer....
CB Axel: In the US we have freedom of religion as long as that religion is Christian. :(
herman Bergson: Intelligent Design....
Bejiita Imako: ID , the idea that aliens made us, not evolution
Daruma Boa: ahh ok . thxs herman
herman Bergson: yes indeed CB....
herman Bergson: for that Designer is always and only the Christian god.....never Allah or Krishna or Brahman
Bejiita Imako: Prometheus movie is good example of ID, but this designer then tries wipe us out again
herman Bergson: Ahhh I watch that one twice now Bejiita....
Daruma Boa: the christians made a better marketing...
CB Axel: So the God in Prometheus is Shiva?
Daruma Boa: that was brutal power in the dark ages
herman Bergson: No...some aliens :-)
herman Bergson: But ID never has come up with a scientific explanation for the existence of this designer....
herman Bergson: and assuming the existence of the designer is a real leap of faith
Daruma Boa: ;-)
Bejiita Imako: closest we can get to this I think is what comes out of LHC when it runs at full power
herman Bergson: besides....on Facebook someone has shown us the origine of the world...:-)
Bejiita Imako: we can se building blocks but no designer
CB Axel: I'm looking forward to that, Bejiita.
Bejiita Imako: me to
herman Bergson: Gustav Courbet's L'Origine du Monde :-))
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is LHC?
Bejiita Imako: they are in start up phase
CB Axel: Large Hadron Collider.
herman Bergson whispers: and what do we see there Bejiita?
Bejiita Imako: more power, better detectors, i really hope something unexpected and big comes out
Bejiita Imako: that explain some stuff to me
Bejiita Imako: like why cant anything go faster then light, does dark matter exist, what is it
Bejiita Imako: and so
Bejiita Imako: but chasing alien designers i think we can forget
herman Bergson: oh dear....hard stuff!
herman Bergson: But all explanations will be within the laws of physics....
Bejiita Imako: hard stuff indeed, makes my head spin when i think of it until i find out why cause it doesn’t make sense
Bejiita Imako: yet it is so
Bejiita Imako: wanna know why
herman Bergson: Keep us informed Bejiita :-)
Bejiita Imako: I will
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if we look at the universe , it is sooo large, why should anybody create us so tiny, we are in fact nothing
herman Bergson: next time I'll discuss the question whether we can prove the non existence of something and of course in particular a god...
herman Bergson: To play with, Beertje ^_^
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
herman Bergson: Lat night I watched the movie Dark Skies (2013)
Bejiita Imako: ok
herman Bergson: The plot is really that a normal family is invaded by aliens....just to be used for experiments ....and at the end to abduct a child
herman Bergson: The Greys are they called....those aliens.....
herman Bergson: Why do we come up with such stories...?
Bejiita Imako: cause there have een questions all time, are we alone and are they friendly or hostile
herman Bergson: All debate, especially among atheists is that the existence/non existence of a god is already assumed
Bejiita Imako: if there are other intelligent life
Bejiita Imako: in movies aliens are often hostile since it makes for a more interesting film,
Bejiita Imako: thats how it works
herman Bergson: Nobody asks the question...where did we get this god idea...?
herman Bergson: Some neuroscientific research is working on it, I have read tho
herman Bergson: Well if we cant make anything fo the existence of a god or designer...
herman Bergson whispers: let's see next Thursday if we can make something of the non existence :-)
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe in very early times when people count’s answer things they saw, they must have been thinking that there was a powerful force that made the thunder or something like that
Bejiita Imako: ah lets start up LHC and find out what we can
Bejiita Imako: hehe
Bejiita Imako: thats the best tool iI have at my hands anyway
herman Bergson: that is a general approach of the question indeed Beertje....
Bejiita Imako: alien chasing seems well a bit to tricky
herman Bergson: But the issue is that it seems so be so deeply entrenched in our cultures....
Bejiita Imako: SETI have not sound anything so far
Bejiita Imako: found
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it became a force of power over people
herman Bergson: The believers in a god are cheering Bejiita...
CB Axel: I remember reading that there is a part of our brain that makes us want to believe in a god.
Daruma Boa: No we only learned that over thousands of years
Bejiita Imako:
herman Bergson: Well...there has been research on religious thoughts....
Daruma Boa: But scientist found now - that the bible is really a fantastic story.
Daruma Boa: But it will be really hard to change in the world
Daruma Boa: A compete industry will break down.
herman Bergson: What I read was that when asked questions about belief the same brain areas as when asked about normal social activity were involved....
Daruma Boa: complete
CB Axel: I think the world is changing. I think every generation is becoming more skeptical about the existance of a god.
herman Bergson: I think so too CB....
Daruma Boa: and getting sceptic also in every thing in live. Straing with good, ending with media.
herman Bergson: The observation is pretty obvious....
Bejiita Imako: hope so, it just lead to war, well we have of course Putin destroying Ukraine at moment too
Daruma Boa: I hope peeps will not follow anything they get toldin the future
CB Axel: The believers are fighting that skepticism.
herman Bergson: when you go to the doctor you canbe treated....when you pray..that has no effect
Bejiita Imako: but IS and similar organizations would vanish at least
herman Bergson: yes Bejiita
CB Axel: They'd just find some other ideology to fight about.
herman Bergson: marxism and communism behave like religions
CB Axel: Exactly
CB Axel: And consumerism.
Daruma Boa: shopping for shoes also...
CB Axel: LOL
Bejiita Imako: ehehe
herman Bergson: and the free market
Daruma Boa: ja i really think that sometimes
Bejiita Imako:
herman Bergson: One last remark about fighting religion....:-)
Bejiita Imako: and Ayn Rand is the god
Bejiita Imako: lol
herman Bergson: In China the government takes measures to ban Western influences from education....
herman Bergson: Then someone remarked....but your Marxism isnt that a 100% Western ideology?
CB Axel: And then he was murdered, I'll bet.
herman Bergson: I liked this observation.....
herman Bergson: can't say that in China CB...:-)
herman Bergson: Is NOT funny ^_^
Bejiita Imako: china is a nasty place in general
CB Axel is glad she's not in China.
Bejiita Imako: not far from north Korea
CB Axel: The only good things about China are their cuisine and they only have one time zone. °͜°
Bejiita Imako: hehe
herman Bergson: Well...then let me invite you to SL and the lecture next Thursday :-))
Daruma Boa: and they have nice lamps...
herman Bergson: camps
herman Bergson: Thank you for your attention and participation ^_^
Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
Bejiita Imako: this was good
Daruma Boa: danke herman.
herman Bergson: Class dismissed
Daruma Boa: was leuk as always
CB Axel: Thank you, herman
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): zeker Daruma:)
Daruma Boa: ;-)
herman Bergson: To be honest...
Daruma Boa: so Thursday 1 hour earlier?
herman Bergson: the whole atheism is a kind of funny subject to me ...
herman Bergson: Yes Daruma....we stick to the SL time....
Daruma Boa: we must see the hole world a bit funnier
Daruma Boa: also with the bad things
Daruma Boa: we can not change everything
herman Bergson: indeed we should..I agree!
Daruma Boa: but we can be the light to do it better
Daruma Boa: *GIGGLES* :)~~~~
Bejiita Imako: yes¨
Bejiita Imako:
herman Bergson: yeah it is a slow process.....
Daruma Boa: so hope to see u Thursday again
Daruma Boa waves goodbye
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Daruma
herman Bergson: I'll be there at 1 PM SL-time Daruma :-))
Bejiita Imako: cu soon
Bejiita Imako: bye all

CB Axel: Bye, bye.

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