Thursday, May 21, 2015

585: God takes a vacation...

First of all an announcement. This will be the last lecture of this semester. The next lecture will be on Tuesday September 1.
Main reason is that RL will be and is already disturbing my peace of mind, because we are in the middle of the proces of selling our house and moving to another part of the country.
Besides I think we all really need a good vacation, which will allow me to prepare new projects for The Philosophy Class.
This announcement can not be qualified as evil, that happens to you. Unpleasant perhaps but not evil.
At least this is what we have learnt about evil: it only makes sense to call something evil when there is intentional action to harm another person involved.
The believe, that storms, hurricanes and earthquakes or a cholera epidemic are real evil, makes only sense,
when you believe that there is an intelligent agent behind its natural causes. This however is only for people with some kind of animistic believe system.
Or for those who believe in this Old Testament revenging god of christianity. You should watch Richard Dawkins on Youtube in his crusade against this kind of believe.
Now that I am talking about him, let me conclude this project with the classic “Problem of Evil”. It is wasted on secular listeners,
But keep in mind that a fast majority of the world population still believes in some god , who is directly involved with their personal lives.
It all boils down to this: The existence of evil and suffering in our world seems to pose a serious challenge to belief in the existence of a perfect God
If God were all-knowing, it seems that God would know about all of the horrible things that happen in our world. 
If God were all-powerful, God would be able to do something about all of the evil and suffering. Furthermore, if God were morally perfect, then surely God would want to do something about it.
 And yet we find that our world is filled with countless instances of evil and suffering.  
These facts about evil and suffering seem to conflict with the orthodox theist claim that there exists a perfectly good God.
The problem is this: When you claim that statement  A and B are both true, but their content is evidently contradictory then one of the two HAS to be false.
This problem we have to face when we say (A) God exists and (B) Evil exists. We first have to ask what is meant by EVIL and what is meant by GOD.
What we mean by evil is at this moment rather clear for us. At  least, independent of any believe system,
any intentional action to harm another person may be called evil.
What is meant by god we learn from all kinds of sources, but it is something like god means an all-powerful, all-knowing-all-moral, all-good being, which is related to human existence.
Even more, this being with these qualities is the very creator of human existence, in which we suffer a lot of evil.
I guess, you already see it coming: If evil and suffering exist, then God is either not omnipotent, not omniscient, or not perfectly good.
Or we could formulate in Dawkinsian wordings: Putting the point more bluntly, if God exists, he is either impotent, ignorant or wicked. 
Or in yet another way: suppose I have my gun pointed at a lunatic who is at the verge of slaughtering dozens of people.
The only way to stop him is to shoot him, but not only the imminent slaughter also the shooting of the criminal is harming a person.
What should god do? He can not allow the slaughter, nor can he let me shoot the criminal. Ok…the right solution is that he stops us both,
thus showing us his all-moral, all-powerful qualities. The very moment I’ll see this happen in our world I’l be more religious and devoted to god than the pope himself.
Thank you all for this wonderful year again and your persisting interests in philosophical issues…..
I hope to see you all again the first of September  after you have enjoyed a wonderful time.

The Discussion

Daruma Boa claps
Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): claps too
Daruma Boa: thank U herman
Bejiita Imako:
Daruma Boa: for your
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): dankjewel Herman
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): still no graduation
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Bejiita Imako: hahaah
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): phoo
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): back again in september to try again
herman Bergson: Yoiu did well this year yoo Gemma...I agree....
Bejiita Imako: good luck with the moving Herman
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): well missed more classes
CB Axel: Hmmm. I have a Tiny cap and gown somewhere in my inventory.
bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
bergfrau Apfelbaum: and ty herman!! for your great job!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
herman Bergson: you're welcome Bergie ^_^
CB Axel: I do appreciate coming here. It's the only time I do any thinking at all.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol CB
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): that is terrible
herman Bergson: This have been 12 projects so far...I have to find new inspiration.....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): wow yes
Bejiita Imako:
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): look in Amsterdam
Bejiita Imako: I have to go there someday
Daruma Boa: ja there is enough inspiration
herman Bergson: Any suggestions for themes?
Daruma Boa: ja i could send you some I guess.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): will have to think
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
Daruma Boa: Must have a look in my papers^^
herman Bergson: Plz do....
Daruma Boa: will do
herman Bergson: One I am thinking about is Free issue these days
CB Axel: We could look at the moral issues involved with either caring for the earth or completely trashing this planet and moving Mars.
herman Bergson: Would be great Daruma
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): that would bring up the idea of god again
Bejiita Imako:
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): who lets us practice free will
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): in his goodness
CB Axel: Not necessarily, Gemma.
Daruma Boa: can i send it on facebook or better here on sl?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah yes
herman Bergson: No facebook plz :-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
CB Axel: I can see free will being determined by the physics of the universe.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): or voice
Daruma Boa: oki
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): could be a good one then
herman Bergson: This class will never be in voice Gemma :-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): I know
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): that is what i said
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): no voice
Daruma Boa: would be too loud^^^
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): and
herman Bergson: would wake the people...!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): no facebook
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): and no graduation
CB Axel: lol
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but góód classes Gemma
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yep
herman Bergson: Yes Gemma...a Spartan tradition here...^_^
Bejiita Imako:
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): the first few projects were a lot easier
CB Axel: There. I have my mortarboard.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a what CB?
herman Bergson: mortarboard? Is that what it is called CB?
CB Axel: Graduation hat in the US.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i think my favourite was the women
herman Bergson: Yes that was a nice one, Gemma...loved it too....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): of course
herman Bergson smiles
herman Bergson: Simone de Beauvoir is still on the wall here :-))
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): she was interesting
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): they all were
herman Bergson: I see that the Problem of Evil didn’t impress you that much :-)
Bejiita Imako: hehe
Daruma Boa: *GIGGLES* :)~~~~
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): was too short
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): we did nto take any field trips
herman Bergson: I had to bring it up.....
CB Axel: Well, since we all seem to be atheists here, we aren't too worried about evil, I guess.
Bejiita Imako: evil is an issue nowadays however for sure
herman Bergson: Indeed CB....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it has always been an issue
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): just different aspects of it
herman Bergson: I just brought it to your attention from a cultural perspective....
CB Axel: Evil, Bejiita, or just the stupidity of man?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): in various times
herman Bergson: If you want to have fun...check out Dawkins on Youtube....
herman Bergson: hilarious....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i saw soem of his stuff
Bejiita Imako: i d say IS and Boko haram are 2 big evils right now
herman Bergson: total waste of time....
Bejiita Imako: hehe ok
CB Axel: Sure, Bejiita. But did you hear about the recents shootings down in Texas?
herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita, they are...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): heard someone i meant to remember the name
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): on tv
Bejiita Imako: aaa yes heard that :(
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): similar to dawkins
herman Bergson: yes our Dutchie Wilders was there too for a speech :-))
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ahha
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): of course there are some here who cannot distinguish between radicals and all muslims
herman Bergson: He is the political leader of the anti islam party with 20 or more seats in parliament
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): tsk that many??
herman Bergson: hasnt achieved a thing so far....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): isnt that good
herman Bergson: yes...from the 150
herman Bergson: He has a bog mouth about islam and islamisation of the Netherlands....but that is all
CB Axel: That was at a competition to draw a picture of Mohammad sponsored by an anti-Muslim group. They were deliberately trying to provoke Muslims, so when there was violence they were able to say it's because Islam is a violent religion.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yep
CB Axel: Who were the evil ones there? The shooters or the jerks that provoked them?
CB Axel: Or both?
herman Bergson: In Austria they have legislation now which obliges imams for instance to speak the german language...
herman Bergson: been accredited by an Austrian committee....things like that
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): both and IS is now saying they ordered it which I don’t believe for one minute
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): they take credit for everything
herman Bergson: The biggest problem with islam and greatest threat to our culture is that we have a separation between state and religion....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh dear.... Austria
herman Bergson: Islamic countries have not....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): exactly
CB Axel nods
CB Axel: The US also does not despite what our constitution says.
herman Bergson: What we achieved since the Enlightenment is threatened by this alien culture....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh I think we do
herman Bergson: Indeed CB....!
Bejiita Imako: heard that Iran have banned "devil hairstyles" (punker hair and similar ) and tattoos since its against islam
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): there is and will never be a state religion
Daruma Boa: luckily gemma
Bejiita Imako: when power and religion mix problems arise
herman Bergson: No that will not happen in the US...I agree Gemma...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): some may try hard to change that
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but never
herman Bergson: But politics an religion in the US are culturally strongly intertwined
CB Axel: Tatoos are forbidden in Judaism, too, but Jews don't try to make others follow their beliefs.
herman Bergson: When a president says.....hand on the bible...So help me god almighty...
Bejiita Imako: IN GOD WE TRUST
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): however they are looking down on the Nigerian jews living there now too
Daruma Boa: a phrase
Daruma Boa: ^^^
Bejiita Imako: its a liiitle bit to much religion involved in US indeed
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): SOME are
herman Bergson: Ethiopian jews
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes I'm Sorry!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): you are right
Bejiita Imako: as saidd, its never good to mix start and religion
Bejiita Imako: state
herman Bergson: Culturally interesting for there are also a lot of old Coptic christians in Ethiopia
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
CB Axel: I'm with you on that, Bejiita.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): my philosophy says that the best thing that would bring all together would be a good alien invasion
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): from outerspace
CB Axel: LOL
Bejiita Imako: i really hope that that guy who wanted to shoot homosexuals since its against the bible never got anywhere
Daruma Boa: oh ha
Daruma Boa: what an idea
herman Bergson: I have thought about that often myself Gemma....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): nothing short of that i think
Daruma Boa: they get killed the aliens
Bejiita Imako: such dudes in politics spells disaster
Daruma Boa: peeps are too much afraid of things they don’t know
herman Bergson: That first yes, Daruma..unfortunately...
Bejiita Imako: ah
CB Axel: You'll have to narrow that down, Bejiita. There are too many here that feel that way for me to know who you mean. ;)
herman Bergson: But such avisit would discredit all religions one way or the other
Bejiita Imako: dont remember his name but what i read about him made me cringe
Bejiita Imako: and he was some politican candidate i think
CB Axel: Probably.
herman Bergson: Ted Cruz?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): no
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): he would’n to shoot anyone
herman Bergson: Who has the will of God on his side?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes he does he says
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i don’t even believe that he believes that
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but it sounds good to some
CB Axel: I follow @TheTweetOfGod on Twitter and today he said that he talks to Republicans and tells them to run for office for the fun of it.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   ,.·^*'´|'\            ,.·^*'´¯¯¯'`*^·,  ,/ |'`*^·-, 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   '|         |  \       ,·'       ,.·:*:·,         '`i   |          | 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   '|         |   |      ;          ':,:::,:·          ;   |          | 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   '|         |   :i - ·;i'`:,         ¯¯         ,·´|  '|          | 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):  '|         '´         '|'i   `*:~· - ~^*'´    |   |          '`*·-, 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   '|          ,.-:^:':'\:'`:;                   :;·:i  /`':^·.,        `'i 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   '|..,.:'´              '\| '`*^~·:-:·~^*'´'|/            '`::.., | 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):   '´:           ;:-·^*'´                              `'*^·:;-        :;·' 
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate):       `·;:·'´                                                      '`^·:;·´ 
CB Axel: Yes. God is on Twitter.
herman Bergson: Mankind will only make a step forward when it realizes the irrational foundations of their religions
CB Axel: So I guess he does exist.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): there are so many going to run the stage will be very very full
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bernie Sanders of Vermont would be a favourite of yours I think
CB Axel: I do like Bernie. °͜°
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): he is so so common sense!!!
bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman ty class :-) see you in September! have a good summer all!! *sun smile*
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): see you bergie
CB Axel: A Sanders/Warren ticket would be fun.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Bergie:)
Bejiita Imako: cu bergfrau
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): goodnight
herman Bergson: see yuo Bergie ^_*
bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye´s :-)
bergfrau Apfelbaum: wavewav
CB Axel: Bye, bergfrau. See you in September.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it will come fast watch!!
Bejiita Imako: good luck with moving now Herman
Bejiita Imako:
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
herman Bergson: Well we firsst need a serious buyer...:-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah
Bejiita Imako: that can bee a good idea
Bejiita Imako:
CB Axel: I hope your move is uneventful.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): dont break anything
Bejiita Imako: and not haunted with evils and miss happenings
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): anything even
Bejiita Imako:
herman Bergson: But the house was published with photos on the internet and someone wanted an appointment within ten minutes after posting it
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah nice
Bejiita Imako: aa ok
CB Axel: That's promising.
Bejiita Imako: yes
herman Bergson: tomoorw two visitors...Friday another one....
Daruma Boa: and may the force be with you^^^
Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): you are doing it yourselves???
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's a beautiful house:)
herman Bergson: yeah Daruma....!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): not a agent?
Daruma Boa: i will send u and notecard here on sl
herman Bergson: hehe...want to see my house?
Daruma Boa: concerning themes
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah nice
CB Axel: Sure, Herman.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i think we saw it a while back
herman Bergson: I look forward to it Daruma!
CB Axel: I may want to move out of the US after the next election. °͜°
Daruma Boa: ja in septemvber 1st we get a photo show about the new house here^^^
herman Bergson: these are new pictures....super cool
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah ok
Bejiita Imako:
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it was in a viewer of the island vacation some years back
herman Bergson: You can see my desk this time :-)
herman Bergson: My desk is in the living room...
Daruma Boa: hoi rodney^^^^
herman Bergson: the other study is my wife's :-)
Bejiita Imako: is that your house?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): very nice
Rodney Handrick: Hi Daruma
herman Bergson: Yes it is Bejiita
Bejiita Imako: aaa looks really nice
Bejiita Imako:
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): rodney
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): hi
herman Bergson: You can buy it if you like :-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): has been ages
CB Axel: That's a lovely house. You must really want to be closer to Amsterdam to leave it.
Rodney Handrick: Hi Gemma
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): thinks it will be better to be near Amsterdam for services
herman Bergson: YEs CB....this is not the place to be buried ^_^
Bejiita Imako: indeed, id love a place like that even if i like it here too
Bejiita Imako: seems cozy
herman Bergson: Hi Rodney
Rodney Handrick: Hi Herman
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): last class of the year rod
CB Axel: Hmmm. A lot of religious imagery. Are you sure you're not a closet Christian?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): you missed the whole year
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh dear
Rodney Handrick: Ah...timing
herman Bergson: lol...CB ....September 1 will be my coming out!
CB Axel: LOL
Bejiita Imako: i like the hall floor
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok all have a great summer
Bejiita Imako: kind of special
CB Axel: Well, take care and have a successful move.
Bejiita Imako:
herman Bergson: yes..1936
CB Axel: I'll see you all in September. °͜°
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): bye to all for now
Bejiita Imako: aaa cu then
Bejiita Imako: bye
herman Bergson: Bye Gemma
herman Bergson: CB
Daruma Boa: bye cb
Daruma Boa: bye gemma

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