Tuesday, October 20, 2015

594: A new phase....

Historically the cultural difference between England and the main land of Europe is remarkable.
Why emerged empiricism in England and rationalism on the Continent. Because of Locke and Descartes is of course not an answer.
However, it remains a remarkable difference in culture with different outcomes regarding the position of the individual.
From Locke on the individual in England was mainly defined within the political and economical context.
This brought us philosophers like Adam Smith (1723 - 1790), Jeremy Bentham (1748 - 1832) and John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873).
Maybe you could describe the difference between England and the Continent like this:
The empiricist individual looks around in the world and asks himself “What are we doing here on this earth?”
The rationalist individual looks around in the world and asks himself “What am I doing here on this earth?”
The philosophical focus regarding the individual on the Continent was not primarily on the social position and relations of the individual.
On the Continent it was concentrated on the consciousness of the individual. “I think, thus I am” and the ensuing question: “why am I?”
You could say “not really an original question…”. But at that moment in history it yet was,
because the question was asked outside a religious context. Man had discovered that he was obliged to define himself instead of deriving his essence from some god.
Thus late 19th- and 20th-century existentialism emerged, the belief that philosophical thinking begins with the human subject, not merely the thinking subject, but the acting, feeling, living human individual.
On the existential view, to understand what an individual is, it is not enough to know all the truths that natural science, including the science of psychology, could tell us.
Existentialism does not deny the validity of the basic categories of physics, biology, psychology, 
and the other sciences, categories such as matter, causality, force, function, organism, development, motivation, and so on. 
It claims only that human beings cannot be fully understood in terms of them. And this an interesting point in relation to empiricism,
because existentialism claims to need other conceptual categories than science. It needs more than science can offer to describe “existence”.
I myself remember from the time that I was a philosophy student , that we had debates about “L’Etre et le Neant”, written by Sartre.
We didn’t discuss the content of the book, but just this title. L’Etre means The Being and Le Neant The Not-Being.
Could an article plus verb (L’Etre) mean something or was it just a syntactical monstrosity and thence meaningless?
Can authenticity, a term not related to any observable scientific fact but a main concept of existentialisme, yet be an empirical property of the individual?
Interesting to notice that the dominating interpretation of the individual today is “homo economicus”.
Are all existentialist categories of describing the individual lost and forgotten, or do they still apply?
Thank you for your attention…feel free to ask questions or add to the discourse..the floor is yours.

Main Sources:

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995

The Discussion

[13:17] herman Bergson: Take your time....:-)
[13:18] herman Bergson: So ice to hear you thinking :-)
[13:19] herman Bergson: nice
[13:19] Bejiita Imako:
[13:19] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ;-) thank u
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hmmmmmmmm
[13:19] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): to be or not to be
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): seems that we only count in this world if we earn money
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): seems so
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): not as a woman
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or are outrageous
[13:19] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): true beertje have that also sometimes in mindä
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: It is true science is not enough to describe things like existence, its so complex
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: question is if we can ever fully understand it
[13:20] herman Bergson: well...my point today is this divergent roads...England ...Continental...
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: 2 different ways of thinking indeed
[13:21] herman Bergson: the focus on the homo economicus....and the focus on the (non)rational human
[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita...and I find it amazing....
[13:21] herman Bergson: to begin with...internationally English is one of the most dominant languages...
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): philosophy then is always influenced by its surroundings i take it
[13:22] herman Bergson: the result of the English philosophical tradition is too...
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:24] LarsOldenburg: I am curious, in what view we perceive, the questions are the validity of self? but what is the main thrust of self, if self is satisfied or striving for ones needs, what has self put together in self or was self created to strive. I must get a bit of tea, please excuse but this is a fascinating discussion.
[13:24] herman Bergson: so in the next lectures I'll try tofigure out how the individual ws defined by people like Kierkegaard, Nietsche, Schopenhauer and others
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we will try to understand
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: interestingthis can be fun
[13:25] Bejiita Imako:
[13:25] herman Bergson: Well GEmma..I'll try to understand myself :-))
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh good
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: ehe
[13:25] Bejiita Imako:
[13:26] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): i guess we must understand ourself in the whole of all human beings. we dont live alone and we must learn more to connect
[13:26] herman Bergson: WHen you look at al previous projects you may conclude that I have little connection with continental philosophy...
[13:26] Guestboook van tipjar stand: Hermine Resident donated L$50. Thank you very much, it is much appreciated!
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hmmm
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yet I know it points us at important aspects of our being...
[13:28] herman Bergson: As I said....today we only seem to  think about ourselves as "homo economicus"
[13:28] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ja thats the problem^^
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: money money more money!
[13:28] herman Bergson: the main existential question in politics is "How much does it cost?"
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: very true
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): always
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: and answer is always, too much, and nothing gets done
[13:29] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): we all are able to do / be a lot alone, but we are mostly not able to connect with others and to share and grow as human beings
[13:29] herman Bergson: And everybody knows that we are overlooking things here which are also part of our existence
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: cost too much here cost too much there
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: it blocks progress
[13:29] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ja and we follow the wrong gods, eg: money
[13:29] herman Bergson: something like that Daruma....
[13:30] herman Bergson: Economy has become the new religion...
[13:30] herman Bergson: answers all our questions...
[13:30] herman Bergson: it seems
[13:30] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): of course it does...
[13:30] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ;-)
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: if money was not a such issue we might be able to finally make that enterprise starship in star trek
[13:31] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): but when I do, I only see the weakness
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the next year here in the usa we will see billions poured into the election of the new president
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: that series tells that this is the thing that made it possible, they discarded money and concluded, if we want something we just have to make it
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: and see the final product as the profit
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): is is like the office is being bought
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: instead of money
[13:31] herman Bergson: oh dear..yes indeed Gemma
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): forget the election
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes thats ongoing now
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh
[13:32] CB Axel: I'm hoping Bernie Sanders will show that you don't need lots of money to make a difference in elections.
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: a big mess i guess as usual where the one with most money wns and become president
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh i love what he says and wishes for it but he will never be elected
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: or the one talking most bullshit ( Donald Trump)
[13:33] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): rofl
[13:33] CB Axel: At least he's not homo economicus
[13:33] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): he is really a clown
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: the planet goes down the drain if he wins it feels like
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is really nutty that he is really thought of by so many as a possible candidate
[13:34] herman Bergson: I guess we have left the philosophical part of our discussion now :-)
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): incredible!!!!!!!!
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: I agree Gemma
[13:34] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ja very sad to see
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not really study his philosophy
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hahahaha
[13:34] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): i have one of his books...
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he is the best!!!
[13:34] herman Bergson: It would puzzle me indeed gemma, if you did..:-))
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): can do the best
[13:34] Bejiita Imako:
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): for the best
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): klol
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh dear
[13:35] CB Axel: I think the election shows that we don't live alone. We need to connect to drive out homo economicus.
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: vary true
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: very
[13:35] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ja cb!
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: its just escalating with no end now it feels like
[13:35] herman Bergson: homo sapiens populated this planet and homo economicus is destroying it....
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: the richer becomes even richer and the poor even poorer
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: not fair
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: everyone deserv a good life
[13:36] CB Axel: I wonder what Sartre would say if he were alive today.
[13:36] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): true bejita
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: not only the ones with most money
[13:36] herman Bergson: I'll think about that CB :-)
[13:37] herman Bergson: For the time being I want to thank you again for this discussion....
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:37] Bejiita Imako:
[13:37] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...^_^
[13:37] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine) claps
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: cu tuesday then
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): maybe maybe not
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: oo and dont forget, BURN start on saturday
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): will try
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: checked before
[13:37] CB Axel: Until Tuesday. Bye.
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and time change coming soon
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): keep that in mind too
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: aa yes
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): are you a greeter
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): *¨¨*<♥*''*BEJIITA!!! *''*<♥:*¨¨*
[13:38] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): yes time will and must change
[13:38] CB Axel: I wish that if we have to have that stupid time change that we'd all do it at the same time.
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: ill do something there i guess

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i know

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