Thursday, February 14, 2019

758: The Prophet of the Free Market.....

In February 1975, Margaret Thatcher was elected leader of the British Conservative Party. 
The Institute of Economic Affairs arranged a meeting between Hayek and Thatcher in London soon after.
During Thatcher's only visit to the Conservative Research Department in the summer of 1975, a speaker had prepared a paper 
on why the "middle way" was the pragmatic path the Conservative Party should take, avoiding the extremes of left and right. 
Before he had finished, Thatcher reached into her briefcase and took out a book. 
It was Hayek's "The Constitution of Liberty" (1960). 
Interrupting our pragmatist, she held the book up for all of us to see. 'This', she said sternly, 'is what we believe', and banged Hayek down on the table". [ WIKI ]
This was a leader of a country, who reads, even whole books, which really had great influence on her. The author was Friedrich August von Hayek, born in 1899.
We are looking at the 20th century and try to discover what legacy it left us and when you hear the name "Hayek", the legacy is HUGE. It still affects our lives every day.
Mannheim and Schumpeter wrote interesting books, but Hayek took part in shaping our world of today with his books, that is, his thoughts.
Big question...Who is this Friedrich August von Hayek. He was born in Vienna in 1899 and was the son of a university professor.
On his mother's side, Hayek was second cousin to the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein. Although he met Wittgenstein on only a few occasions,
Hayek said that Wittgenstein's philosophy and methods of analysis had a profound influence on his own life and thought.
I am a philosopher, not an economist. So we have a small problem here. We have to begin with a short introduction to the economy. 
What are economists exactly theorizing about? And even in such a way that it has a massive impact on our lives?
Before we'll try to answer this question, I'd like to read you a paragraph from WIKI, which is fascinating in the context of the current situation in the US and UK.
[WIKI: Hayek wrote an essay, "Why I Am Not a Conservative" (included as an appendix to The Constitution of Liberty).
In it he disparaged conservatism for its inability to adapt to changing human realities or to offer a positive political program, 
remarking: "Conservatism is only as good as what it conserves". 
Although he noted that modern day conservatism shares many opinions on economics with classical liberals, 
particularly a belief in the free market, he believed it is because conservatism wants to "stand still" 
whereas liberalism embraces the free market because it "wants to go somewhere". 
Hayek identified himself as a classical liberal, but noted that in the United States it had become almost impossible 
to use "liberal" in its original definition and the term "libertarian" has been used instead. In this text, 
Hayek also opposed conservatism for "its hostility to internationalism and its proneness to a strident nationalism", with its frequent association with imperialism. ]
Fascinating observations. We really need to learn about Friedrich von Hayek's ideas. 
Thank you for your attention again...The floor is yours!

The Discussion

[13:24] herman Bergson: These final remarks apply perfectly  to the Brexit and current US nationalism
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think i like him already
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well conservatism is not a fav to me either cause it means just as the name says that we should stop progress and instead continue to trample in the same tracks as 100 years ago
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): opposing changes
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ht is why Democrats are beginning to call themselves progressives more and more
[13:24] herman Bergson: You see it in the Brexit....
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): brexit is so sad
[13:25] herman Bergson: the conservatives will go back to some imaginary past
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah yes, they want it to be as "on grandpas time" before EU even existed
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is about half or less of the UK at this point
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but that does more damage than good because a lot of things will now break apart
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): if they voted again would iot pass as it did I think
[13:26] herman Bergson: yes and the point is...when they are there...nobody yet has offered them a prerspectivew  on their future
[13:27] herman Bergson: They wanted out but never answered the question for themselves...Ok....and THEN?
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): most large companies like Airbus Atlas Copco ect will leave the UK if Brexit goes through they have confirmed leading to massive unemployment
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that would be bad
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they want the good old England back
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but that is mission impossible
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje...that is the sad truth
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i guess so
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): btw Ciska told me she is training a new job
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): did she tell you herman?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes she is :-))
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes ok
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good
[13:28] herman Bergson: I know :-))
[13:29] FrannyDJ Dean is online.
[13:29] herman Bergson: nice oneliner : Conservatism is only as good as what it conserves
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): are the countries like Poland and Hungary considering themselves conservitive now?
[13:29] herman Bergson: That made me think of the House at the State of the Union...
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): conservative
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and if what it conserves is already rotten its no good
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i forced myself to watch
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and many things conserved or not have a best before date
[13:30] herman Bergson: I got a glimpse of the people....
[13:30] herman Bergson: on the one side the Dems....a mix of men, women, Latinos, blacks etc...
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the diversity on one side and the non-diversity on the other
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): many things are impossible to conserve, cant stop progress
[13:31] herman Bergson: on the other side 99% white males....
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:31] Satisfire: hi, may i join for some time
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause that would be bad since the progress would lead to improvement and development
[13:31] herman Bergson: exactly Gemma....
[13:31] herman Bergson: Conservatism is only as good as what it conserves
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and that is what they want to conserve
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hi satis
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sit
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hi
[13:32] herman Bergson: I came to the conclusion that the GOP is representing mainly white US males who still believe that the US is a white country
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its for example meaningless to conserve an already rotten egg
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg yes
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Ow
[13:32] herman Bergson: Conservatism is only as good as what it conserves
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some women but not many
[13:32] herman Bergson: Hello Satisfire, welcome
[13:32] Satisfire: thank u
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:33] herman Bergson: like in the UK, conservatives seem to cling to old dreams
[13:33] herman Bergson: and make that their political perspective
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:34] herman Bergson: And now we  meet Hayek.....
[13:34] herman Bergson: THE man of the Free Market idea
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): although i recall one of the lords telling me once that the conservative party there in UK was more like the demo USA party
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): always wondered why he said that
[13:35] herman Bergson: As I said...I am not an it takes some further study  to get what he really means
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed conservatives cling to old way past date dreams
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well...I guess he'd love that this would be the case indeed Gemma :-)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least mostly
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): never really checked far into it
[13:36] herman Bergson: I'd say Labour is more Dems like
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I thought so too
[13:36] herman Bergson: But let me tell you to what Dems and Labour lead to......
[13:37] herman Bergson: There was someone in FoxNews who said this....
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: h boy
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however something I'm conservative about and wish it would be like before is this privatizing craze where EVERYTHING gets privatized and turns from providing a necessary service to just shovel in money
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:37] herman Bergson: He was referring to this young Latino woman who has been elected....
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): while the service itself crashes down the black hole in terms of quality
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): our railways and school system here in Sweden are 2 examples
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): who was that!!!
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh I'm Sorry! waits for quote
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
[13:38] herman Bergson: She has very "leftwing" ideas...universal healthcare, climate change measures,  etc....
[13:39] herman Bergson: I have to look for her name Gemma....she is 29...
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): most are in that range
[13:39] herman Bergson: That man in FoxNews said.....
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh i know who he meant
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): they are really after her
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): think it is fear
[13:40] herman Bergson: Just look at history.....Stalin, Hitler, Mao....they all promised these things she promises....and what did it lead to? Totalitarianism
[13:41] herman Bergson: Dictatorship....SO be warned
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate):
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes,,,that is her, Gemma
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes i heard that
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): from more than one
[13:41] herman Bergson: Hayek wasn't an admirer of socialism
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): iit is a talking point across the conservative media across the country
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): quote it almost word for word
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): she is a firecracker
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): took the seat away from a longtime conservative
[13:42] herman Bergson: Oh yes.....scares the hell out the GOP
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and now all conservatives are raging against her or?
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): keeping a close eye so they can say the demo are becoming socialists
[13:43] herman Bergson: So we have conservatism, the Free Market politics, socialism and Hayek's ideas about all this....
[13:43] herman Bergson: They way GOP interprets socialism is so stupid.....
[13:44] herman Bergson: everything you do collectively should be a form of socialism...
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right but not to them
[13:44] herman Bergson: police ....collectively paid....socialist organization....isn't it....
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): teachers
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well when comparing anyone challenging their old ideas with Hitler and Stalin
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that says a bit about conservatism
[13:45] herman Bergson: Fire Brigade....same thing :-))
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well i would say our pres is more like them
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but they do not see it that way
[13:45] herman Bergson: education.....socialism....should be all private education
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it seems they want that only the ones with money should be able to live a good life
[13:46] herman Bergson: In all European countries there exists a universal healthcare system....
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not for everyone
[13:46] herman Bergson: non of these countries is a socialist country....
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well how to get that through their head
[13:47] herman Bergson: except some old east block countries like Hungary etc
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Hungary and Poland are going totally in wrong direction
[13:47] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma that is what amazes me soooooo much
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wring
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i know
[13:47] herman Bergson: that was wrong Bejiita :-)))
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sjfafjwjfoefåEDD aAaaaaRRRGHH
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (RUBS CHOCOLATE OF FINGERS AND TRIES AGAIN)
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): puh there
[13:48] herman Bergson grins
[13:48] herman Bergson: ok....
[13:49] herman Bergson: There will be some extra lectures on Hayek and his ideas, for he is almost the creator of our present day capitalism
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm ok
[13:49] herman Bergson: Unless you have that final important question, we might conclude our discussion for today :-)
[13:50] herman Bergson: Ok...lot of questions....we need another class for that :-)
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:50] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for your participation :-)
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i will not be here Thursday but will be at One billion rising
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate):
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa there is a lot to this i think too, but its interesting
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope you all visit
[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed......^_^
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and Class :-)
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): one day event
[13:51] Satisfire: im sorry, how could you conclude this man's teaching in several sentences?
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I'll see if i make it at least a short time, a bit busy on Thursdays
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and watch the new video we made!
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): was fun
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gonna check
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i have been in all the videos
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): since the first year
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and am a greeter there

[13:51] herman Bergson: What is that 1billion thing Gemma???

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