Tuesday, April 21, 2020

844: Where and when did it go wrong.....?

The Neolithic also known as the "New Stone Age", the final division of the Stone Age, began about 12,000 years ago 
when the first developments of farming appeared in the Epipalaeolithic Near East, and later in other parts of the world. 
Klaus Schmidt (1953 - 2014) was a German archaeologist. He led the excavation of Göbekli Tepe in Turkey from 1995 and discovered clues that it is the oldest temple in the world.
He states that around 9,000 BC. the Neolithic revolution, the switch from a hunter-gatherer society to a society based on agriculture and cattle breeding, was yet to begin. 
According to him, this temple was not built by the first Neolithic farmers, but by hunter-gatherers before the Neolithic revolution. 
It is striking that this temple was built by itinerant hunter-gatherers, because to build this complex an advanced organization is almost indispensable. 
Archaeologists estimate that it took up to 500 people to cut down the 10–20 ton  heavy pillars in the surrounding quarries and transport 100–500 meters. 
All those workers had to be fed. Schmidt states that wild grain was used for their diet. 
He believes that the hunter-gatherers had to work together to protect these cereals from wild animals (herds of gazelles and donkeys). 
For example, during the construction of the temple complex, a common organization would have arisen, 
people would have started large-scale agriculture and they would settle in a village or city near the construction site. 
This must have been the moment in history, that private property came into being. It may have been in the beginning pieces of land and cattle.
This must have been a gradual proces which took centuries. The temple site has been in use for at least a 3000 years.
Richard Brian Ferguson, a tenured professor of Anthropology at Rutgers University Newark published in  2013 the article "The prehistory of war and peace in Europe and the Near East". 
In it he reviews archaeological data on prehistoric warfare for Europe and the Near East. 
For Europe, the Upper Paleolithic (35.000 to 10.000 years ago), shows negligible evidence of war, and barely any evidence of interpersonal violence. 
In the Mesolithic, from the onset of the Holocene around 11,600 BP (before present) until the arrival of agriculture, warfare is 'scattered and episodic'.
This period is associated with increasing practice of living in one place for a long time, more food storage, more distinctive group identities, and greater inequality. 
About 500–1000 years after the Neolithic transition (10.000 BP) to agriculture, warfare became widespread, 
and during the subsequent Copper, Bronze, and Iron Ages, warfare was the norm.
The picture is clear. With the introduction of private property we also introduced the willingness to defend this property or steal it from your neighbor.
Why didn't homo sapiens return to the peaceful hunter/gatherer role?
Maybe because he was so human and thought: why should I walk for kilometers to find my food every day, when I can grow it in my backyard?
In other words, we might have discovered here one of the most ancient qualities of homo sapiens:
by nature he is primarily lazy and easy going.....
It has had its consequences.....
Thank you for your attention again....

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019

The Discussion

[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I think nothing has changed
[13:18] herman Bergson: Indeed Beertje :-))
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (sitting in couch burping beer)
[13:18] herman Bergson: Why do it the hard way if you can do it the easy way ? ^_^
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ad yes I can be lazy for sure now and then
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and sure the easy way is tempting
[13:19] CB Axel: So war was started because of property, and property started because people needed farmed food so they could stop foraging for good and build temples?
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if the end result is same
[13:19] herman Bergson: Historically it is interesting to see that property introduced war too
[13:19] CB Axel: So war was created because of religion.
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why did they build a temple in those days?
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): did they have gods already?
[13:20] herman Bergson: Well...staying at one place for a long time was the beginning of all
[13:20] herman Bergson: an din this case indeed....the reason was some religion
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): someone dreamed some shit and believed it was a supernatural entity and all hell broke loose end of story
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and still goes o today
[13:21] herman Bergson: They think this Göbelki Tepe is related to ancestor belief
[13:21] herman Bergson: celebrating the ancestors
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well there are some really old temples for sure
[13:22] herman Bergson: The belief that the dead still live on elsewhere is a common belief
[13:22] herman Bergson: this is the oldest one on earth Bejiita
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's fear of death
[13:23] CB Axel: You don't have to believe in an afterlife to honor and remember your ancestors.
[13:24] herman Bergson: No CB you are right
[13:24] herman Bergson: we don't know what these people believed
[13:24] herman Bergson: I guess the afterlife believe may have started with the Egyptians 2500 BC or so
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but to fight about food is easy..they stored it and others wanted it too, so they took it..instead of going to hunt
[13:25] herman Bergson: or it may be much older...don't know
[13:25] herman Bergson: Think so too Beertje
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the biggest mistake in human history?
[13:26] herman Bergson: And don;t forget the growing inequality
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): storing food
[13:26] herman Bergson: the hunter/gatherers shared everything....that was common practice...
[13:27] herman Bergson: and now you got the Haves and HaveNots more and more
[13:27] herman Bergson: So yes....Rousseau may be right....
[13:27] Laz Dresler is offline.
[13:27] herman Bergson: civilization wasnt a blessing but a curse
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): human could not handle civilization
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they still can't
[13:28] herman Bergson: IT's us that create this civilization.....
[13:29] herman Bergson: Actually the result of our easy going mentality and laziness ^_^
[13:29] herman Bergson: But of course this never has been a deliberate proces.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: we were slowly trapped by it
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we all like the easy way of living
[13:30] CB Axel: It feels to me that picking food up off the ground and from trees and bushes is easier than planting, nurturing, and havesting crops. Farming is hard work. :)
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sitting in the couch watching football and drinking beer and eat crapfood
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a classic
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:31] herman Bergson: Yes CB...but I guess we realized that too late
[13:31] CB Axel nods
[13:31] herman Bergson: Don't forget that the area between Nile and Tigris was super fertile....
[13:31] herman Bergson: so growing crops was pretty easy...perfect climate
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): land of milk and honey
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:32] herman Bergson: and another problem.....
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): (i don't like both)
[13:32] herman Bergson: because of the easy acquisition and production of food the mouths to fill increased
[13:33] herman Bergson: so the urge for easy production increased too
[13:33] herman Bergson: and then you are trapped
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:34] herman Bergson: old hunter/gatherer skills got forgotten
[13:34] CB Axel: Some people forgot those skills.
[13:34] herman Bergson: it is a process of centuries, but it had just one direction
[13:34] CB Axel: People around where I live are great at gathering when the morel mushrooms come out.
[13:35] herman Bergson: We haven't forgotten everything, I guess :-)
[13:35] CB Axel: :)
[13:35] CB Axel: And I know lots of hunters.
[13:36] herman Bergson: With guns, I assume
[13:36] herman Bergson: The easy way :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): for pleasure or for food CB?
[13:36] CB Axel: Not necessarily.
[13:36] CB Axel: I have one friend who hunts with a bow.
[13:36] CB Axel: For food, Beertje.
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): painfull I guess
[13:36] herman Bergson: Fan of the Hunger Games, I guess :-)
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:36] Ciska Riverstone is offline.
[13:36] CB Axel: I don't know anyone who hunts only for trophies.
[13:37] herman Bergson: oh my......
[13:37] herman Bergson: there was a big uproar when an American killed  the last animal if its kind in Africa for trofee
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:37] herman Bergson: Forgot which animal it was...
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and he was proud of it
[13:38] CB Axel: Trophy hunting is so stupid.
[13:38] herman Bergson: an old lion , not sure
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed :(
[13:38] CB Axel: My friend hunts deer.
[13:39] CB Axel: He does use a rifle for ducks and boar.
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one at my work hunts boar
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): poor animals
[13:39] CB Axel: Yeah. My friend hates hunting boar. He says they're messy to clean.
[13:39] herman Bergson: I only hunt mosquitos :-)
[13:39] CB Axel: LOL
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and they are full of cesium 137 from Chernobyl
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): me too Herman:)
[13:39] CB Axel: Yikes, Bejiita.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but they ae a huge problem around here, they are aggrieve and destroy gardens and golf courses completely
[13:40] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is offline.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agressive
[13:41] CB Axel: Yeah. Boar are a big problem in parts of the southern US.
[13:41] herman Bergson: boars...yes...a problem...except on a plate :-)
[13:41] CB Axel: lol
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and in a little Gallisch village:)
[13:42] CB Axel: They provide more meat than a mosquito.
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I've seen some greens destroyed by boars, its like someone had been there with an excavator
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nothing left
[13:42] herman Bergson: True CB :-)
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): of the green
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but boars of course  don't care about our golf courses they just want the stuff in the ground
[13:43] herman Bergson: Well...I guess we have learnt today that with the invention of private property we also invented war......
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): boars certainly do NOT go the easy way finding food
[13:43] herman Bergson: It was not primarily in our nature...
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well now we had something to kill each other over
[13:43] herman Bergson: And to prevent that this discussion becomes boring, I'd say....dismiss class :-)
[13:44] CB Axel: LOL
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so I can see how this can be true
[13:44] herman Bergson: and thank you all again for your participation
[13:44] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least no war in here, all peaceful
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:44] CB Axel: See you next week, everyone.
[13:44] CB Axel: Bye. :)
[13:44] bergfrau Apfelbaum: again very interesting! ty Herman and class
[13:44] herman Bergson: Only hunting and gathering women, Bejiita ^_^
[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman:)

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