Tuesday, June 1, 2021

929: On Principles.....

 Classical antiquity differs radically from early antiquity: the search for principles is a central theme almost everywhere. 

With the first formulated principles there arise many questions about the relationship with patterns. How do these two relate to each other? 

  

Can patterns be derived from principles or vice versa, can patterns be reduced to principles? Or are principles only generalities that loosely generalize about the patterns? 

  

This kind of question is raised in various regions from China and India to Greece. It seems that Greece has the scoop, 

   

but this is by no means certain since many works have been lost, especially during the large Chinese book burning of 213 BC. 

  

Following the advice of his chief adviser Li Si, Qin Shi Huang, the first emperor of a unified China, ordered most previously existing books to be burned in order to avoid scholars' comparison of his reign with the past. 

  

Records that were allowed to escape destruction were: "books on astrology, agriculture, medicine, divination, and the history of the Qin state. 

  

However, the Greeks were in an exceptional situation. The Greek natural philosophers, historians, linguists, physicians and logicians often earned an income through private lessons, 

  

or they were prosperous enough and had not to work for their livelihood. 

  

Thus it became possible for individual persons to dedicate themselves to pure science, which had not primarily a practical purpose. 

  

And so it could happen that the Greeks sometimes had more attention for theoretical principles than for empirical patterns. 

   

A good example is, of course, the early Greek philosophers like Thales of Miletus (600 BC). 

  

Aristotle, the major source for Thales’s philosophy and science, identified Thales as the first person to investigate the basic principles, 

  

the question of the originating substances of matter  In addition to Greece, 

  

India and China were also leading. In India, theoretical linguistics was developed that does not know its equal in the history of science. 

   

And in China, underlying principles were sought in astronomy and mathematics, but especially in logic, where the Chinese have drawn up the oldest known laws of reasoning.

  

It is interesting to follow the development of human thinking, his growing awareness of patterns in the world around him.

  

In one part of the world, these patterns were encoded in script on clay tablets, while about the same time in another part of the world around 3100 BC patterns were encoded in the huge construction of Stonehenge in England.

   

It took 35.000 years or more to get that sophisticated in dealing with the world people lived in. In China and India, it happened around 1600 BC.

   

To get from recognizing patterns to asking what is behind these patterns took only some 2500 years if we take 600 BC as the start date for this process.

   

Is there a parallel? From then on the speed of growth of knowledge increased every century. The development of the computer has a similar kind of development process.

   

The first computer the ENIAC was completed in 1946. In 1981 IBM introduced the first 2.4 Mhz CPU computer and from there the development accelerated almost exponentially.

    

If you regard the. brain and the computer both as data processing machines, we see, that when the train has started rolling, it picks up speed faster and faster.

  

Thank you for your attention again...

  




The Discussion


[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true

[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): faster and faster...to end up without control?

[13:23] herman Bergson: I didn't use the term, but what we see here is the emergence of Metaphysica...Metaphysics

[13:23] herman Bergson: Good point Beertje

[13:23] herman Bergson: If you hear the current cyborg phatasies...integration of man and computer.....

[13:24] herman Bergson: chips implanted in the brain

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but can we have the speed of the brain too?

[13:24] herman Bergson: I don't know

[13:25] herman Bergson: I guess we even don't know how fast a brain actually is. if you take in to account what we discussed before this lecture

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:25] herman Bergson: CB-gate....:-)

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for one thing brain is analog and computer is digital

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): analog

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and brain don't have a way to measure instructions processed per second which is how we measure CPU speed MIPS and MEGA/Petaflops

[13:26] herman Bergson: chip implants in a brain are already possible

[13:27] herman Bergson: So...where the train will stop, Beertje, I dont know

[13:27] CB Axel: The covid vaccine is implanting chips inside of us. LOL

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think we will be surprised

[13:27] herman Bergson: what is even more, if you look at it from an evolutionary point of view....

[13:28] herman Bergson: this train has no destination either

[13:28] herman Bergson: Like evolution had no preplanned outcome

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it took thousand of years to develope...and now in this time it's going too fast maybe

[13:29] herman Bergson: 'too fast' is a value judgement....what is the norm?

[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): don't know

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): has to be a norm?

[13:30] herman Bergson: if you say too fast...yes

[13:30] CB Axel: It may be too fast for us to regulate how to use our new knowledge.

[13:30] herman Bergson: But I would say....we know where we came from but we don't know where we are heading....

[13:30] oola Neruda: RIGHT both of you

[13:30] CB Axel: Too fast for ethicists to form opinions

[13:31] herman Bergson: Thay may be quite true CB, indeed

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:31] herman Bergson: We have no clue sometimes how to deal with situation that are techical prossible, but ethically....?????????

[13:32] CB Axel: Yes. Like chips implanted in our brains.

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I AM BORG! YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

[13:32] herman Bergson: In medicins there are dozens of such situations

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:32] CB Axel: LOL, Bejiita.

[13:32] oola Neruda: frankly, money gets in the way of good judgement in too many stuations

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just HAD to do that one!

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:32] herman Bergson smiles

[13:32] CB Axel: lol

[13:33] herman Bergson: Fortunately we just have arrived at the early Greeks yet.....

[13:33] herman Bergson: So....development is not yet at topspeed

[13:34] oola Neruda: frankly, money gets in the way of good judgement in too many stuations

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just wait (starts Large Hadron Collider and puts it in time machine mode and press FastForward)

[13:34] herman Bergson: AN other aspect of the problem, oola...yes

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehehe

[13:35] oola Neruda: climate change be damned.... i will drill for oil if it want to

[13:35] herman Bergson: It will blow up the whole continent Bejiita....mark my words ^_^

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha u can be calm

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however im a bit worried, Sector 78 is now at room temperature again. Have not heard of any issues but to me looks like start can be delayed

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hope its not a cryo system failure

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well see

[13:36] herman Bergson: It is at least interesting to see where the train started and what speed it has reached at the moment

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and where its headed and at wich speed

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): will it just go faster and faster

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ?

[13:38] herman Bergson: Well....it is just an analogy.....but a lot can happen toe a fast train :-)

[13:38] oola Neruda: I just listened to two scientists talking about climate change and, frankly, it was hair raising...

[13:38] oola Neruda: in real life... not on the media

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there are some idiots trying to slow it down though like religious fundamentalists and the US militia ect which think its more important putting money in blowing each other up (weapons development have no budget limit but everything else appearently has)

[13:39] herman Bergson: Nowadays there may be even two trains....the money train and the eco-train

[13:39] oola Neruda: agree

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if we had stopped making bombs we would be on mars long ago i think

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): That is where money and research should go!

[13:39] oola Neruda: Steve Jobs has written a book that has a lot of meat in it re: climate change

[13:40] oola Neruda: scientists are happy with what he said

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i mean we went to the moon in 1960s but that was because of the cold war, US vs russia (another blowing each other up race)

[13:40] oola Neruda: he does not have it all but he says useful things

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): without that push there sem to be no rush

[13:40] oola Neruda: in plain language

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why cant we just do it!

[13:41] oola Neruda: money

[13:41] oola Neruda: lobbyists

[13:41] CB Axel whispers: oola, did he have solutions or was he just pointing out the extent of the problem?

[13:41] CB Axel: Sorry. Didn't mean to whisper.

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said spend all weapons developpment money where apperently there is no budget limit on space flight particle physics ect and

[13:41] herman Bergson: I heard you CB :-))

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): MUCH better things to spend money on

[13:42] oola Neruda: He talked with all kinds of people who are doing things.... listening to evealuations, predictions, solutions... possiblities... things that are already in place...etcc

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and we will rush forward i think

[13:43] oola Neruda: the scientist i was listening to in real life says we need to get back to nuclear power... but there are things that make it safer now... like not using plutonium... they have a substitute for it that does not lend itself to bobms

[13:43] oola Neruda: bombs

[13:43] herman Bergson watching the dancing flowers :-)

[13:44] CB Axel: Did he have any plan for disposing of nuclear waste?

[13:45] CB Axel: That's my biggest problem with nuclear power.

[13:45] herman Bergson: Yess...

[13:45] oola Neruda: also...  better design of them.... fukushima  put their equipment for mitigating meltdown... in the "basement" where the water cancelled it's affect... they should have been on the roof so that they could still function despite the tidal wave

[13:45] oola Neruda: yes... there are alternatives for disposal of the waste

[13:46] oola Neruda: because it is not plutonium

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly

[13:46] herman Bergson: I am afraid we are digressing too much in details now.....

[13:46] oola Neruda: and it comes in little balls... not rods... which is a design difference that matters

[13:46] oola Neruda: sorry

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and if we process or nuclear waste we can take out amny times more power

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): current reactors can only extract about 20% of the energy

[13:47] herman Bergson: Well...we are a active thinking group here....that is for sure....

[13:47] oola Neruda: back to class

[13:47] herman Bergson: I'd suggest to put our minds to rest for a nice weekend now :-)

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if we extract the rest we get shorter lived waste and MUCH MORE clean reliable electricity

[13:47] oola Neruda: BACK TO CLASS

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that we need for all ouir electric cars

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if we want to go green

[13:48] herman Bergson: CB has still a lot of work to do...so she'll need her time ^_^

[13:48] oola Neruda: yes

[13:48] CB Axel: :))

[13:48] herman Bergson: So....Thank you all again for your participation :-)

[13:48] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:48] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....

[13:48] oola Neruda: sorry to digress

[13:48] CB Axel: and class

[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it was intresting as usual:)

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:48] herman Bergson: That's ok . oola ^_^

[13:49] herman Bergson: Once in a while we all do :-))

[13:49] herman Bergson: while

[13:49] oola Neruda: blushes

[13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class! i find the development remarkable:-)) we sit in a virtual world and talk to each other. it was interesting again :-)

[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): especialy in this class Oola

[13:49] herman Bergson: Don't take it too serious please ^_^

[13:50] herman Bergson: Thank you Bergie....yes it is amazing.....

[13:50] herman Bergson: If you take into account that this is lecture 929 !!!

[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): talking to you Bergie is amazing..i don't have to bike 1200 hours to see you:)

[13:51] herman Bergson: And all the time of my life I spent on writing the lectures....

[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay

[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Beertje

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:52] herman Bergson: But I am grateful to you all....for you kept my brain active week after week

[13:52] CB Axel: :)

[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)))

[13:52] herman Bergson: And I have learnt so much in all these years

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): as we did:)

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its always exciting

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and we get something to think about over the week

[13:53] herman Bergson: Enough motivation to go on ...up to lecture 1000

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wow

[13:54] herman Bergson: 70 to go....that is in 35 weeks.....!!!!

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hope more people visite your class by then

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:54] CB Axel: I have some reading to do...homework from Herman...so I'll see you all next week.

[13:54] herman Bergson: If life permits me ^_^

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): take care CB

[13:54] CB Axel: I hope you have a nice weekend, everyone.

[13:54] herman Bergson: See you CB and enjoy :-)

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