So far we have seen a lot of developments in all kinds of sciences, as well as the emergence of the use of the empirical cycle as a method to discover patterns and principles.
In many ways, medicine has turned out to be an outlier in this project. Contrary to other disciplines, for example,
there was hardly any convergence between principles and patterns in classical antiquity, and in the post-classical period, again in contrast to other disciplines, there was no reduction of principles.
A possible explanation could be that medicine was mainly 'learned' and 'philosophical' and little 'empirical'.
Theoretical principles, such as the four humours, blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm, were so predominant,
and the taboo on dissection of the human body was so great, that new empirical findings were rare.
All this changes in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, almost simultaneously in Europe, China, India, the Ottoman Empire, Ethiopia and West Africa.
The big name in medicine was for a long time Aelius Galenus (129 CE - 216 CE). Galenus's understanding of anatomy and medicine
was principally influenced by the then-current theory of the four humors: black bile, yellow bile, blood, and phlegm.
Galenus's views dominated and influenced Western medical science for more than 1300 years.
His anatomical reports were based mainly on the dissection of Barbary apes. However, when he discovered that their facial expressions were too much like those of humans, he switched to other animals, such as pigs.
The reason for using animals to discover the human body was due to the fact that dissections and vivisections on humans were strictly prohibited at the time.
This prohibition dated back to 150 BC in Roman law. His anatomical reports remained uncontested until 1543,
when printed descriptions and illustrations of human dissections were published in the seminal work "De humani corporis fabrica" by Andreas Vesalius, where Galenus's physiological theory was accommodated to these new observations.
The name of Vesalius was actually Andries van Wesel. He was from Flanders, which is a part of Belgium today. He was a student of Johann Winter van Andernach (1505 -1574).
With his philological research Andernach had revived the writings of Galenus and based his anatomy lectures on those texts.
His student Andreas Vesalius discovered more than 200 mistakes in Galenus's writings. His prof didn't get angry, but stimulated Vesalius to come with empirical evidence to proof his point.
This resulted in the book I already mentioned: "De humani corporis fabrica" (1543). It was illustrated by the artist Johannes von Kalkar.
Vesalius dissects the human body like the philologist dissects a text, an analysis from the whole into the last detail.
He gives an anatomical analysis of the human body in terms of parts and their interrelation without mentioning the principles regarding their working.
There is one thing that puzzles me. The Greek Alcmaeon (ca. 510 BC) is known as the first who dissected human bodies.
He inferred that the brain was the center of intelligence and that the soul was the source of life.
Why did human anatomy disappear from the stage? I found the following answer:
-QUOTE- The flickering light of human dissection was completely snuffed out with the burning of Alexandria in 389 AD.
Following widespread introduction of Christianity in Europe during the Middle Ages, the development of rational thought and investigation was paralysed by the church authorities
and physicians could only repeat the works of the eminent figures from the past such as Aristotle or Galenus without questioning their scientific validity.
During this period, human dissection was considered to be blasphemous and so was prohibited.
For hundreds of years, the European world valued the sanctity of the church more than scientific quest and it was not until the early 14th century
that human dissection was revived as a tool for teaching anatomy in Bologna, Italy after a hiatus of over 1700 years -END QUOTE
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4582158/
Thank you for your attention again....
The Discussion
[13:15] herman Bergson: Da Vinci was one of the first to make anatomical drawings
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): The church stopped all discoveries for 100s of years, a real bugger
[13:16] herman Bergson: Looks like it
[13:16] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hii Oola:-)
[13:17] oola Neruda: hi... smiles... am so embarrassed to be late
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess maybe in fear of them discovering that there is no god magic and supernatural hocus pocus
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and thus taking the church power away
[13:17] herman Bergson: or maybe because they were afraid that the soul would not be found in the body :-)
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:18] herman Bergson: Amazing that Arcmaeon that old Greek, related the mind to the brain
[13:19] herman Bergson: No brain, no intelligence
[13:19] herman Bergson: By the way...
[13:20] herman Bergson: the publication of Vesalius' book wasn't uncontroversial
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): by the church?
[13:20] herman Bergson: It was a refutation of Galenian beliefs
[13:21] herman Bergson: The church reluctantly began to accept human dissection
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why would a professor be mad if a student discovers mistakes?
[13:22] herman Bergson: There are everywhere EGOs, Beertje
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): oh yes
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): The boss always is right mantra
[13:22] herman Bergson: but some persons are more balanced
[13:22] herman Bergson: Right Bejiita....
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but he must have been lucky to have such a brilliant student
[13:23] herman Bergson: I guess you know the two rules of management....
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:23] herman Bergson: I think he must have been
[13:23] bergfrau Apfelbaum: like Herman with us:-) Beertje
[13:23] herman Bergson: Rule 1...The boss is always right
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): shhh
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 2 should the boss have wrong paragraph 1 is automatically applied
[13:24] herman Bergson: Rule 2: In all other cases rule 1 applies.
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seen it on a coffe mug
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes mine Bejiita
[13:24] herman Bergson: educational mug :-)
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:25] herman Bergson: One thing is clear,,,
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): het onmogelijke doe ik direct voor U, wonderen duren iets langer, was on my desk
[13:25] herman Bergson: With Vesalius real empirical medicine not yet had started
[13:26] herman Bergson: He just deconstructed the human body into its parts....
[13:26] theo Velde is online.
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but did he understand the body?
[13:27] herman Bergson: and had them drawn
[13:27] herman Bergson: Not really, I think Beertje
[13:27] herman Bergson: Nowhere in the book do you find explaining theories
[13:28] herman Bergson: Soon Harvey with discovering the blood circulation in the body and its function
[13:29] herman Bergson: That's the start....
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): those people in the mid ages must have been suffering a lot
[13:31] herman Bergson: If you reckon where we can use Paracetamol for today...hardly any medicines in those days
[13:31] herman Bergson: Little hygiene too
[13:32] herman Bergson: farm animals in the streets of the cities, open sewers...
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trash dumped through the window
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): onto the streets
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cant imagine the stench
[13:33] herman Bergson: We can survive a COVID crisis but in those days millions simply died in a plague
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): EEEEW
[13:33] herman Bergson: indeed Bejiita
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the smell........
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mush have smelled like a sewer/trash heap everywhere
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the entire city
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and they wonder why they got sick?
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): pfff
[13:34] herman Bergson: maybe they had a stronger immune system
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they died sooner
[13:34] herman Bergson: that too
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lot's of children died
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): says i because i know this stuff but i guess the connection was not really made, dumping your poop and other shit into your drinking water supply should logically have rung a bell though
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even back then
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but also no way to process sewage was invented yet
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so they had no choice either
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not anything like our modern water treatment plants
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): modern
[13:36] oola Neruda: outhouses
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they had beer to drink
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that was safe
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i say thats the better option there yes
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and brewing beer sterilizes the water through the wort boiling
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still would not wanna drink beer made with cesspit water
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes the rich fled the city and had their big houses in the countryside
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but im a bit comfortable i guess
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they had toilets, but the poop run outside the walls down in the gardens:)
[13:38] herman Bergson: yes
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): automatic fertilization systems
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its better for the plants
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like how we still use cow dung on the farms
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but not along the walls
[13:38] oola Neruda: chamber pots emptied in specific places ...
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and what is farmland without a little smell of cowshit
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:39] herman Bergson: ok....
[13:39] herman Bergson: guess we are done for today :-)
[13:39] herman Bergson: Enjoying the countryside and its smells :-))
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): enough crap talk, now starting the plupptalk!
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): loool
[13:40] herman Bergson: Right Bejiita ^_^
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but was great craptalk
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:40] herman Bergson: So...thank you all again for your attention....
[13:40] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok where to now?
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