In the previous lecture, I claimed that the narratives of religions have in fact the same structure and scheme as the arguments of conspiracy theories. This fact fitted perfectly into our theme 'Materialism'.
The observation was based on an article in my newspaper. This newspaper originated from Protestant ideas but is now a very open-minded newspaper with still those Christian roots.
So, the article was pretty daring and of course, there had to show up comments telling the reader that the equation of the conspiracy theories with religion was unjust.
OK, to refresh your memory, the definition of a conspiracy theory: "A conspiracy theory attempts to provide an explanation for reality based on the belief that there is more than ordinary people can perceive.
Behind the things that happen would be something greater, that affects and even controls our world.
Our world is a make-believe world, we ordinary people are just puppets in the hands of greater powers, such as reptiles or IT millionaires.
A conspiracy theory is an unprovable belief in a reality that rules man and the world." -end quote-
The counterarguments were typical. Let's see if they are really able to refute the equation conspiracy - religion.
The first opposition came from two academic theologians. They attack the correctness of the definition in relation to religion.
They claim that the statement "A conspiracy theory attempts to provide an explanation for reality based on the belief that there is more than ordinary people can perceive. " does not apply to religion.
They argue thus: "Two crucial things are missing here. A conspiracy theory requires – surprise, surprise – belief in a conspiracy, that is, a secret conspiracy of several persons
who – and that is the second – want evil, such as enslaving ordinary citizens. Both elements are evidently absent from the major religions.
But that is not the only difference between conspiracy thinking and belief in God. Faith in God has directly inspired people to build hospitals,
found universities, care for the poor, peerless music, build cathedrals, and formulate human rights. That flowed directly from the plot of their big story." -end quote-
Two crucial things are absent from the major religions. That surprised me. Take "several people that want evil"....
well, what about the Inquisition, the burning of so-called witches, what about the centuries of obstruction of science to begin with Galileo?
I see there are lots of people wanting evil, but calling it The Good in the name of the Lord and justified based on their (conspiracy theories).
Let's look at the second part: " Faith in God has directly inspired people to...." Sure...and also inspired to murder, kill, exterminate and excommunicate thousands of people.
This inspiration to do good things is not a prerogative of religion. Because science is freed from the joke of religious oppression many scientists have been inspired
to do wonderful things: developing medicines, methods of treatment of all kinds of diseases, improving food production processes, and so on....you name it.
My conclusion: this argumentation is preaching to one's own parish and does not refute the equation of religion-conspiracy theory.
The two theologians finish their argumentation as follows: "The question remains what led to this alienating comparison.
Is it a secular prejudice to lump everything that is or thinks differently into one? Or is it just unfamiliarity with religion?" -end quote-
This is begging the question: we say that conspiracy theories and religions are the same. That is not a prejudice but a factual and logical observation and I think I have still proven my point here,
The second part of this ending is a bit mean. If you close-read what these theologians say, you hear what religious people always say to the infidels:
what you say stems from the fact that you are biased and stupid, ie. unfamiliar with the subject.
What you may conclude is that I totally disagree with the arguments of these theologians and I still agree with the idea,
that religion and conspiracy theories and their social effects have a lot in common.
Thank you for your attention again....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
The Discussion
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:21] herman Bergson: De nada, amiguita :-))
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[13:21] oola Neruda: i see religion as an arm of policing ....
[13:22] oola Neruda: encouraging people to behave with love rather than.... ego
[13:22] herman Bergson: Well....in a way it is , I agree....it is a way to keep the masses in check
[13:22] oola Neruda: yes
[13:23] herman Bergson: IS the same as whatI said of monotheism vs polytheism.....in a previous lecture
[13:23] oola Neruda: you teach your children to play fair.... be kind... etc
[13:23] herman Bergson: it is way more easier to have to deal with one god than a dozen...
[13:23] oola Neruda: it is very "social"
[13:23] herman Bergson: to control the masses
[13:23] oola Neruda: yes...
[13:23] oola Neruda: and the bullies
[13:24] oola Neruda: like trump
[13:24] herman Bergson: yes oola...for that you don't need religion....just being what you are....a social being
[13:24] oola Neruda: only he does not listen
[13:24] oola Neruda: that is where I'm at... just a social being
[13:25] herman Bergson: we are a group animal...like wolves
[13:25] herman Bergson: or chimps
[13:25] oola Neruda: having been directed to a logical way to live in peace if possible
[13:26] herman Bergson: there is one big issue here in relation to social animals like wolves or chimps or other primates....
[13:26] herman Bergson: Homo Sapiens does not only live by instinct like all other animals, but is also self aware and can use rationality
[13:26] oola Neruda: nods
[13:27] herman Bergson: in relation to living a natural life our brain is in fact the biggest handicap ever :-))
[13:27] oola Neruda: and communicate more freely... think about more abstract things than "will that cow we killed have to be shared with the rest of the wolves
[13:28] oola Neruda: what can we do about it if big wolves come in a pack and want a piece
[13:29] herman Bergson: from a neurobiological point of view I wouldn't have problems with concluding that we are an anomaly in the evolutionary development of the nervous system :-)
[13:30] herman Bergson: from my experience though...a pleasant anomaly :-))
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:31] herman Bergson: That is how a materialist talks about human existence and reality, I'sd say
[13:31] oola Neruda: and when there is war or conflict....
[13:31] herman Bergson: Well..at least I do :-))))
[13:31] oola Neruda: little children... love one another
[13:32] herman Bergson: Yes oola....it is not all that simple...human behavior is a complex all
[13:33] herman Bergson: Among social animals like wolves and chimps life is the same every day
[13:33] herman Bergson: they have their politics too...but always within limits
[13:33] herman Bergson: We transgress all limits ...
[13:34] oola Neruda: war
[13:34] oola Neruda: greed
[13:34] herman Bergson: for instance...
[13:34] herman Bergson: although...chimps fight wars among each other too
[13:34] oola Neruda: power
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:34] herman Bergson: one group against another...fights about territory and food
[13:35] herman Bergson: there are power struggles among chimps too....who will be the leader of the group
[13:36] herman Bergson: the conflicts include murder and killing too
[13:36] oola Neruda: true... like the monkey Trump
[13:36] oola Neruda: get a grip.... learn to value others... LOVE ONE ANOTHER
[13:36] herman Bergson: He has fallen from his tree, oola :-)
[13:36] oola Neruda: he needs to fall into a pit....
[13:37] herman Bergson: working on it :-))
[13:37] oola Neruda: preferably one with fire in it
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or sulphuric acid
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or something equanlly nasty
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:37] oola Neruda: you tell 'm Particle
[13:37] oola Neruda: I'm not speaking with love, am I?
[13:37] herman Bergson: here you see what kind of murderous species we are....wanting to kill an opponent in such a way :-))
[13:38] oola Neruda: na na na..."he started it"
[13:38] herman Bergson: It is just metaphorical.....isn't it? ^_^
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: but not 100 ++ die innocent among the apes. in a fight
[13:39] oola Neruda: right
[13:39] herman Bergson: I still agree with the idea that religions are quite similar to conspiracy theories in their narratives
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): are they based on fear?
[13:40] herman Bergson: and that was our point today
[13:40] oola Neruda: in the abstract
[13:40] oola Neruda: not the "language"
[13:40] herman Bergson: Based on fear?
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes, religions are based on fear?
[13:40] herman Bergson: I think it is an important component indeed Beertje...
[13:41] oola Neruda: like "who can you trust?
[13:41] oola Neruda: "
[13:41] herman Bergson: Religions promise that we will survive our death for instance....
[13:41] oola Neruda: hmmm
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes, the biggest fear humans have
[13:41] oola Neruda: right
[13:41] herman Bergson: most of them, yes
[13:42] herman Bergson: As a materilist there is nothing to fear about death
[13:42] herman Bergson: Matter begins and matter ends in a human body...period
[13:42] herman Bergson: what is there to fear?
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what about the mind?
[13:43] herman Bergson: simple...no brain no mind as I said before...light on...light off...simple as that
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but why would we have to learn a lot, study a lot
[13:43] herman Bergson: so..what is there to fear in death.....
[13:44] herman Bergson: We don't have to, Beertje,, but many of us like to....
[13:44] oola Neruda: leaving your children and loved ones.... without whatever you might be providing for them
[13:45] herman Bergson: You can't provide anything when you have died oola
[13:45] oola Neruda: exacty
[13:45] herman Bergson: you even don't need to, because you aren't there anymore
[13:45] oola Neruda: can they take care of themselves
[13:45] oola Neruda: my father died when I was four....
[13:46] oola Neruda: turned out that wicked people came into my life and he would have been able to defend me
[13:46] oola Neruda: i don't want to abandon my child or such.... to "fate"
[13:47] herman Bergson: That he would have been able to defend you is only hypothetical oola...
[13:47] oola Neruda: no.... he was capable... he was simply .... dead
[13:48] herman Bergson: when you are on your own,, you are on your own....
[13:48] herman Bergson: yes..that is what I mean...
[13:48] oola Neruda: yup
[13:48] herman Bergson: it may sound hard....but it is as it is
[13:48] herman Bergson: or do you say harsh?
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: happy on
[13:50] oola Neruda: back
[13:50] herman Bergson: Maybe we can discuss this issue after the next lecture when I present to you another objection
[13 [13:50] oola Neruda: try alcoholics beating you up.... and more
[13:51] oola Neruda: as a child
[13:51] oola Neruda: ain't life grand?
[13:51] herman Bergson: Sometimes, oola....sometimes not unfortunately
[13:52] bergfrau Apfelbaum: mhm
[13:52] herman Bergson: THAT is our problem
[13:52] herman Bergson: Let's save it for a next discussion :-)
[13:52] oola Neruda: exactly
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:53] oola Neruda: foster homes...
[13:53] oola Neruda: multiple
[13:53] herman Bergson: Time to get ready for a pleasant weekend :-)
[13:53] herman Bergson: Thank you all again...:-)
[13:53] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you herman and class -:)
[13:53] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-)
[[13:53] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:53] oola Neruda: death ain't so bad
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman it was very interesting
[13:54] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes!
[13:54] herman Bergson: no, oola, just a natural event
[13:54] oola Neruda: yes...
[13:54] oola Neruda: it is bad for those who depend on you
[13:54] herman Bergson: It is just that I am not in a hurry to die :-))
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Herman
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