A few weeks ago there was this message in the news: "For the first time, a majority of the Dutch population does not belong to a religious group.
In 2017, less than half (49 percent) of the population aged 15 or older indicated that they belonged to a religious group.
A year earlier that was half and in 2012 more than half (54 percent) belonged to a religious group." - end message -
This again can only be the legacy of the 20th century. There we have to look for the causes.
Philosophically it relates to the question: how do we explain and understand the world we live in? Many people answer today: it is explained by science.
For centuries the default answer has been, that we can explain everything in terms of God's will and how he deals with his creation.
However, time ago the Christian leaders started to panic, both in Catholic and Protestant regions. During the eighteenth and nineteenth century
they used frantic efforts to throw a dam against all that scientific curiosity. But it did not help, because the ghost was out of the bottle.
The war between religion and science actually ended in 1859, with the publication of Darwin's "On the Origin of Species."
Not only did Darwin demonstrate the descent of the species, which was entirely contrary to the Christian creation story,
but he came with astonishing insights, the implications of which were so dangerous and far-reaching that they only slowly trickled down: there could be design without a designer.
The first quarter of the 20th century brought an avalanche of new scientific insights, theories and discoveries and technological inventions.
In the 1920s printed media were still the main source of information, although radio became increasingly popular.
An infantry sergeant, DeWittt Walace (1889 - 1981) spent during World War One four months in a French hospital recovering from his injuries, passing the time by reading American magazines.
He found the articles far too long and long-winded. That could be shorter, was his conclusion. People are too busy to read all those long articles.
Thence in February 5,1922 the first issue of "Reader's Digest" was published. Reader's Digest soon became one of the most widely circulated periodicals in the world.
Each issue of the magazine contained, as the cover of the first issue says: "Thirty-one articles each month from leading magazines * each article of enduring value an interest in condensed and compact form"
It was in those years that the word "middlebrow" was coined. A middlebrow is a person who is capable of or enjoys only a moderate degree of intellectual effort.
Due to the introduction of compulsory education in the period 1850 -1900 in many countries literacy had increased considerably.
The elite, the ruling class, began to worry about the increase of what it regarded as semi-intellectualism. A well known paternalistic attitude.
You can see it in the early developments of radio, a terrific means to spread information and educational stuff.
David Sarnoff from RCA in the US wanted a public system, which would also have the purpose of developing the public.
But as CB remarked last Tuesday in the discussion: " The religion of the US: Capitalism.".
In other words, radio in the US was dominated by business and advertisements.
The fear for a "wrongly" informed radio audience in the UK resulted in the BBC, controlled by the state
and in the Netherlands too emerged a system in which every group could defend its own religious or humanistic convictions.
Just wonder, what is left of this paternalism (of religion), when you look at radio and TV today and in particular at the Internet and what we did with our inheritance.
Thank you for your attention again...
The Discussion
[13:40] herman Bergson: If you have any remarks or questions...feel free...
[13:40] Ciska Riverstone: thanx herman
[13:40] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): I do have a contribution Sir!
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): huge changes
[13:41] herman Bergson: The main issue here is that the world changed from an educated elite to a broadly educated population
[13:41] herman Bergson: Go ahead Arabian :-)
[13:42] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): It is wrong to assume that Darwin was the first proposer of the theory of evolutioniental scholar of the East were way ahead of him in exploring this!
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is true
[13:42] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): The oriental scholars of the East*
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we did discuss that at one time
[13:42] herman Bergson: Oh yes quite possible
[13:42] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): I have a document here at hand that touches on this topic.
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but for the western world
[13:42] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/(11) Dr. Sultan Shah_86_2.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0VgvVzRhmPUSJ6gR0yiYcf0pWuJyNfonYHXCF5WsVeZ1SXoItgqKhc2jU
[13:43] herman Bergson: always interesting
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): darwin came along at the right time
[13:43] herman Bergson: But I didn't say he was the first with his theory
[13:43] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): Yes, for the West, it was Darwin that took it upon him to spread the idea to the masses and gave it scientific terminology!
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bookmarked to look at later for sure
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:44] herman Bergson: Yes I'll check it out too Gemma
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:44] herman Bergson: interesting...
[13:44] CB Axel: In the US, those in power are trying to under educate the people by watering down science education with religion and changing views of our history by only showing what puts white men in a good light.
[13:44] herman Bergson: But that is the same with logic....
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i find it interesting that nowadays here they have changed the meaning of elite
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in the US
[13:44] herman Bergson: was invented long before Aristotle came up with it
[13:45] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): elite used to be the rich and porweful
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): now had morphed into an insulting name for the educated
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): democrats
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ll
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:45] herman Bergson: In europe the elite were the highly educated...who were becuse of that often rich too
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:46] herman Bergson: But what I find the major change and step forward is the availability of knowledge and information today
[13:47] CB Axel: Yes, but, imo, the point is that the rich and powerful are trying to make the people stupid and uneducated again.
[13:47] herman Bergson: And that eventually the US created Sesame Street :-))
[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: how cb?
[13:48] CB Axel: By ruining our educational system and giving us garbage on TV and radio.
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sort of true cb
[13:48] CB Axel: Not to mention garbage "newspapers" and magazines.
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: ah ok - we have the economy running the news ys
[13:48] CB Axel: Liberals made Sesame Street. °͜°
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: thats hell
[13:48] herman Bergson: and garbage websites
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: should not be the case anywhere
[13:48] CB Axel nods
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: but just the same with science
[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: so.. basically u need a devision between that and economy somehow again
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is so difficult to meld it all into sense
[13:49] herman Bergson: That is an important point indeed Ciska
[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: information system cannot depend on economic intrest
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:50] herman Bergson: So what did we do with our heritage from the 20th century regarding radio and TV?
[13:51] CB Axel: Eat the rich?
[13:51] herman Bergson: Did we made good use of it or...?
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): recognize it for what it is
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think the BBC uses the tv very well
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i love listening to bbc at night
[13:51] CB Axel: There is good radio and TV out there. We just have to convince people that they should look for it.
[13:52] herman Bergson: It is known for it indeed Beertje
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: yes true beertje - arte is still doing good too
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and have grown to love npr here
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes I often watch Arte
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): arte?
[13:52] CB Axel: NPR is the only radio I listen to.
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not sure how to get tat
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: arte is an European station gemma
[13:52] herman Bergson: Yes an art station in Europe
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: tv
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): maybe on line?
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: they do lots of documentaries arts and such
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: yes
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shall look for it
[13:53] CB Axel: Me, too.
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: https://www.arte.tv/de/
[13:53] herman Bergson: Wel...it is like it always is....we invent something and we do good things with it....and bad things....
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: https://www.arte.tv/en/ (english version)
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): found it thanks
[13:54] herman Bergson: We just have to decide whether the good or the bad things prevail
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: thats inevitable as it seems yes herman - whenever it becomes a power game things go bonkers
[13:54] herman Bergson: Very good, Ciska!
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate):I have to run off to do my job now
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): next week see you
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Gemma:)
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:55] herman Bergson: Happy Fishing, Gemma :-)
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye then Gemma
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:55] CB Axel: Bye, Gemma.
[13:55] herman Bergson: Well, maybe a good moment to end our discussion and give you time to think everything over :-)
[13:56] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): Professor Noam Chomsky is great at explaining how power is being abused by the governments of the world in their attempt for greater control over populations and resources.
[13:56] herman Bergson: Unless...there is that final question....
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well cu around
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:56] CB Axel: Chomsky is a genius. Unfortunately, not enough people listen to him.
[13:56] herman Bergson: Indeed Arabian...
[13:57] CB Axel: See ya, Bejiita. Have a fun weekend!
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you too
[13:57] CB Axel: °͜°
[13:57] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): Well, it is always great to know there are people like you who actually pay attention to worth scholars.
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Bejiita
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:57] herman Bergson: Yes CB...but he doesnt fit into the present landscape....too polarized
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: take care bejiita
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: oops off he goes
[13:57] CB Axel: Ah, but he's polarized in the right direction. LOL
[13:57] CB Axel: IMHO
[13:57] herman Bergson: I agree...
[13:58] herman Bergson: The way people in the US deal with what they call "liberal" ideas is really ....well to be frankly...ridiculous....
[13:58] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty Herman
[13:59] herman Bergson: Ideas that are as common as water in Europe....some americans are horrified by them....
[13:59] CB Axel nods
[13:59] herman Bergson: public education....general healthcare...name it
[13:59] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): Guys, it has been a pleasure being here. Thanks for giving me the chance to listen and contribute. I shall now disappear into the wilderness!
[13:59] Ciska Riverstone: have a great time arabian ㋡
[13:59] CB Axel: It was nice to meet you, sir knight.
[13:59] herman Bergson: Take care of your horse Arabian...it needs you :-)
[13:59] Arabian Knight (arabianknight01): Thank you all, take care.
[14:00] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....
[14:00] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[14:00] herman Bergson: thank you all :-))
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