Thursday, September 26, 2019

799: The Amazing 1960s....

Historically the period 1960 -1970 looks like a period of liberation in many respects.
To begin with the small matters like the liberation of the male hair style. Everything became acceptable, long hair short hair.
I have no idea what the legacy of that liberation is, except that these days even the chemo look has become popular among men. Shorter than short.
We saw the women's liberation, the sexual liberation and a wave of feminism.
In the US we saw the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It is a landmark of civil rights and labor law in the United States 
that outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. 
It prohibits unequal application of voter registration requirements, and racial segregation in schools, employment, and public accommodations. 
Furthermore there is an intense debate on equal rights and equal chances for everyone going on in those days.
Due to the development of the television you also see a kind of liberation of information. Everything can be revealed on television.
It was the time of futurology, fantasizing about the future in a (pseudo) scientific way. In 1964 the French social scientist Bertrand de Jouvenel published 
L’Art de la conjecture (The Art of Conjecture), in which he offered a systematic philosophical rationale for the field. 
The following year the American Academy of Arts and Sciences formed its Commission on the Year 2000 “to anticipate social patterns, 
to design new institutions, and to propose alternative programs”; the commission’s 1967 report constituted the first wide-ranging futurological study in the United States.
The field was brought to wide popular attention in 1972 when Dennis Meadows and colleagues at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology published The Limits to Growth, 
based on a study commissioned by the Club of Rome, an international assembly of business leaders. 
This report focused on hypotheses derived from a computer model of the interaction of various global socioeconomic trends; 
it projected a Malthusian vision in which the collapse of world order would result if population growth, industrial expansion, 
and increased pollution, combined with insufficient food production and the depletion of natural resources, were to continue at current rates. 
To offset these trends, the report called for “a Copernican revolution of the mind,” to reevaluate the belief in endless growth and the tacit acceptance of wastefulness.
By the way, a Mathusian vision means the idea that population growth is potentially exponential while the growth of the food supply is linear. 
It derives from the political and economic thought of the Reverend Thomas Robert Malthus, as laid out in his 1798 writings, An Essay on the Principle of Population. 
And here we are in the 21st century and what did futurologists and The Club of Rome predict? 
The only thing I know is that they want us to believe that we have to deal with the CO2 output. Do you really believe that will save this planet?
Thank you for your attention again...

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Peter Watson: A Terrible Beauty (2000)

The Discussion

[13:16] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:16] oola Neruda: C02 is a major issue but not the only one
[13:17] herman Bergson: Indeed oola
[13:17] herman Bergson: But they want us to believe that THAT usis the big issue at the moment
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:17] oola Neruda: and it is true that expanding population is MAJOR
[13:17] PearlsOh: yes, I think they do,
[13:18] PearlsOh: I think it is more about making money
[13:18] herman Bergson: `Yes PearlOh...I agree....
[13:18] oola Neruda: there is a book .... OIL, POWER, WAR
[13:19] herman Bergson: There are many patient books oola...yes
[13:19] oola Neruda: the author says that oil (money) has been at the root of all the denial
[13:19] herman Bergson: but the politicians...they don't seem to read books
[13:19] oola Neruda: that now, even, our foreign intentions are decided by OIL
[13:20] oola Neruda: starting with Bush... and baby bush
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): problem is that in for ex US a roaring V( consuming 10 gallons a mile is status, that electric cars can be way more powerful they ignore. WHERE IS THE NOISE!?
[13:20] oola Neruda: even before that, actually
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): V8
[13:21] PearlsOh: the problem is they've made us stupid and tired enough to be carried along in this scam
[13:21] herman Bergson: I'am not stupid, PearlOh ^_^
[13:21] oola Neruda: foreign policy being carved out by oil interests
[13:22] PearlsOh: me either, but the chase for prestige and v8's and so on runs our planet
[13:22] herman Bergson: oil will loose its power in the coming decades...
[13:22] oola Neruda: it already has
[13:22] herman Bergson: when wind and solar energy will take over it might be the end of th eMiddle East
[13:23] oola Neruda: sorry
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the greedy oil companies will resist
[13:23] oola Neruda: read that are correct
[13:23] herman Bergson: and its global power
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they just have to adapt
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to development
[13:23] herman Bergson: They just lose their income Bejiita...
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:24] herman Bergson: What alternative have these desert counrties to offer?
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the sun
[13:24] herman Bergson: Indeed Beertje...clever observation :-)
[13:25] herman Bergson: they might gonna export electricity..
[13:25] oola Neruda: Pompeao ssys that Arctic Melting is will open a new route for trade with the orient
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (sighs)
[13:25] CB Axel: That's because all Pompeo and the others care about is money.
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): greed rules as usual
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even if we all die
[13:26] oola Neruda: YES....MONEY IS THE GOD
[13:26] CB Axel: I hope he drowns while he's counting his money.
[13:26] PearlsOh: solar and all that won't take over though, instead we will pay more for electricity and hav eless of it
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agrees
[13:26] herman Bergson: What do you mean PearlOh?
[13:27] herman Bergson: Seems we are a bunch of classic futurologists ourselves today ^_
[13:27] PearlsOh: Well I think the main aim is to control us, they won't let u shave these things like cheaper electricity or if they do they'll come with some burden.
[13:27] PearlsOh: it is about controlling us
[13:28] PearlsOh: us have - not u shave
[13:28] oola Neruda: TO BE DEPENDANT ON OIL
[13:28] PearlsOh: in all sorts of ways
[13:28] herman Bergson: Who wants to control us?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Who  are they?
[13:28] PearlsOh: lol
[13:28] oola Neruda: THE ONES MAKING THE MONEY
[13:29] PearlsOh: people who put us in jail for speaking out, people who profit off our weakness
[13:29] herman Bergson: Still answers the question who are they and who are we.....
[13:29] PearlsOh: u get banned if you say, I call them "them:
[13:30] CB Axel: Banned from where?
[13:30] oola Neruda: this is why we need change in funding of politics.....
[13:30] PearlsOh: every where
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): were do you live PearlOh?
[13:31] CB Axel: Whisper it to me and I'll say it. I'm not afraid. :)
[13:31] herman Bergson: Interesting question within this context Beertje :-)
[13:32] herman Bergson: One thing is true at least....the futurologists were most of the time wrong in their predictions
[13:32] herman Bergson: The `Club of Rome predicted that oil would be depleted by now....didnt happen
[13:33] CB Axel: It will be depleted some day.
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yet I bought a copy of the report in those days and was worried
[13:34] herman Bergson: Yes CB..and it will be replaced by wind and solar panels, I guess
[13:34] CB Axel: The US will continue to use coal and natural gas, too.
[13:34] oola Neruda: they; will also consider nuclear well
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fusion power would be nice to and some of these new thorium reactors
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): clean electricity for everyone
[13:34] oola Neruda: yes
[13:35] herman Bergson: ahh...good idea Bejiita ^_^
[13:35] CB Axel: I just heard someone on the radio saying she thinks we'll need nuclear power.
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): esp now when they build datacenter after datacenter everywhere
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to satisfy our Netflix binge watching ad similar
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:35] herman Bergson: yes yes....we have become just data :-)
[13:35] oola Neruda: nods
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats also true
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it seems
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe we should use less power than we do now
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): numbers in a database
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well wasting power is always bad
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): read a book, use a broom :)
[13:36] oola Neruda: read OIL, POWER, WAR
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:36] herman Bergson: But look at the 1960-1970....where we loved this techno development....and look at our situation today....
[13:37] PearlsOh: yeh it's effed up
[13:37] PearlsOh: it was sold to us
[13:37] herman Bergson: I find it amazing....
[13:38] herman Bergson: television developed into Internet which developed into Facebook and Instagram....
[13:38] oola Neruda: read MERCHANTS OF DOUBT
[13:38] PearlsOh: most people probably didn't read that paper, they just got a fetish for technology off movies
[13:38] herman Bergson: futurologist did.....they predicted only technological developments....
[13:39] herman Bergson: had no eye for human behavior
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:39] oola Neruda: AGAIN...MONEY
[13:39] herman Bergson: if we had to believe them we now would have flying cars
[13:40] oola Neruda: rev everyone up to spend
[13:40] oola Neruda: make promises
[13:40] PearlsOh: well I think technology aims to erase human behavior, if you know what I mean.. our foibles get in the way of profit & power
[13:41] herman Bergson: Sorry PearlOh...but that cant be needs human behavior in buying technology...otherwise it has no meaning :-)
[13:41] oola Neruda: manipulate it
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and if we stopped using money and technology to finance weapons and war technology we would had colonized mars 10 years ago but we are so focused on bowing each other up instead
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): blowing
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then there is no cost limit on bombs and weaponry in general
[13:42] oola Neruda: amen Particle
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): eve the microwave is a war invention
[13:42] herman Bergson: Bejiita..please..:-)
[13:42] PearlsOh: Herman - yes, but why would a natural animal, a human in his natural state, buy a useless thing like a mobile phone, which makes him lazy, makes him overly busy and stressed.. this is engineered behavior with advertising
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): NASA should have had all that financing
[13:43] herman Bergson: lol..I don't use my microwave as a weapon :-)
[13:43] CB Axel: I don't consider a mobile phone useless. It's just a phone.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no but it was a discovery fro microwave radar to track planes and shoot them down and suddenly he felt a chocolate bar melt in his pocket and boom the microwave oven was born
[13:44] PearlsOh: well junk food then
[13:44] PearlsOh: all of this crap they are pushing at us
[13:44] herman Bergson: Yes PearlOh...That is what Skinner also observed.....cultural changes are related to behavioral changes
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm the first microwave foods at least was far from healthy, full of saturated fats and other toxic stuff
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you don't have to buy junkfood if you don't want to
[13:45] herman Bergson: I find th euse of iPhones and the like really absurd...
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bettr now though, at least what i eat
[13:45] PearlsOh: I know but so many people do and why do they, it is obviously bad for people
[13:45] PearlsOh: What makes them buy it
[13:45] PearlsOh: we coudl have steered ourselves in so many better directions
[13:45] herman Bergson: just go to a railway platform...90% of the people are staring at their smartphone....
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well staring into instagram like zombies while falling into manholes and fountains are more common today indeed
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we still have a choice
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least i think we have
[13:47] herman Bergson: ok..our legacy of the 20thy century :-)
[13:47] Ladyy Haven (ladyy.haven) is offline.
[13:47] CB Axel: Herman, before there were smartphones and tablets, the people on the platform were staring at their newspapers. Nothing has changed.
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a mixed blend
[13:47] Ladyy Haven (ladyy.haven) is online.
[13:47] herman Bergson smiles
[13:47] herman Bergson: good point CB :-)
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but at least they did not read the papers while walking and bumping and falling into everyone and everything
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like they do now
[13:48] herman Bergson: that must ne Swedens Bejiita :-)
[13:48] PearlsOh: When newspapers were around though, people were still a lo tmore social, there wasn't the problem of families sitting to dinner and all getting stuck on phones & facebook
[13:48] CB Axel: I don't know about that. Some did.
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahah
[13:48] oola Neruda: at least there were reporters and publishers with dedication to freedom of the press.... and being accountable for what they report
[13:48] oola Neruda: now we have fox news
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes the social part too, sitting next to each other and just staring into the mobile
[13:49] CB Axel: That's true, oola.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sometimes i call it asocial media
[13:49] herman Bergson: My goodness Fox news...
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS!
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:49] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita...looks like it indeed often
[13:49] oola Neruda: real journalists have standards
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they should have for sure
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very important
[13:50] PearlsOh: there's aren't really any sides, left news is as much of a piece of crap as right news, they are just hosting the fight they want us to be distracted by
[13:50] herman Bergson: Well, my freinds, I guess we have saved the world another time again :-)
[13:50] oola Neruda: they can be sued if they are wrong...
[13:51] CB Axel: Real parents have standards, too, and won't let kids stare at their phones at the dinner table any more than they let them stare at books, magazines, and newspapers.
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they write bogus untrue stuff just to sell
[13:51] oola Neruda: notice trump hasn't sued any of the publications....
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): instead of facts
[13:51] PearlsOh: true CB on parents
[13:51] oola Neruda: or bogus sleasy stuff to catch the sleezy minds
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the ones publishing real facts are what Trump call fake when its the opposite way around including him
[13:51] CB Axel: Good point, oola. He's usually not afraid to sue people.
[13:51] CB Axel: I guess he knows when he's not going to win.
[13:52] oola Neruda: lol
[13:52] CB Axel: Maybe he can recognize the truth.
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump?
[13:52] herman Bergson: Ok...the word T`rump has shown up....time to end our discussion :-)
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)
[13:53] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for your participation.....:-)
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well at least this was some very giving facts
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and very true
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman - thanx all
[13:53] herman Bergson: Time to trump out...:-)
[13:53] PearlsOh: Thanks for holding this Herman
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): before w get trumped
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:53] herman Bergson: c.q... class dismissed ^_^
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:53] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

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