Wednesday, November 4, 2020

879: The Birth of A State...

Here we are: we have the basic ingredients.... personal liberty, general equality, private property, and the law of reason. These define the individual in a state.


The next question is: How can the individual maintain himself. He needs to form a community or state.


This is achieved by handing over part of his personal power to the community. Thus individuals form one political body, according to Locke.


He regards a majority vote as the right way of decision making. This relates to his idea that we are dealing here with ONE body, which can only move in one direction.


Nevertheless, a government needs approval from the people. The heart of such a community or state is individual property.


To make it clear, with property is not only meant the possession of material things. The individual also possesses the right of a free opinion, the right to choose, the right of free speech, the right to his body.


To get the system going, first, we need laws, second, we need an independent judge, and third, there must be an institution to enforce the laws. Thus the Liberal Democratic society is born.


The majority and plurality voting are two legitimate types of elections under a democracy. Do you win the majority, you have at least 50% + ONE of all votes.


However, say, there are three candidates? Then it can happen that one candidate gets the plurality of votes. A gets 45 votes, B gets 17 and c gets 38 when there are 100 voters.


A wins the election by the plurality of votes, not by the majority of votes. To solve this you drop B and organize a second round between A and C to get to a majority vote.


When there are only two candidates it is always a matter of majority vote. Yet we have seen in 2016 that one candidate got the majority vote, but nevertheless lost the elections. What happened?


Today is the most appropriate day to discuss this peculiar twist of a democratic process. It can only happen in the US, where happens to be presidential elections today.


While in the US the popular vote elects members of Congress, mayors, governors, state legislators, and even more obscure local officials, 


it does not determine the winner of the presidency, the highest office in the land. This is due to the so-called Electoral College.


The Electoral College became part of the Constitution at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in 1787

Of course, there were a lot of negotiations and one of the compromises involved the creation of the electors.

Some delegates wanted Congress to choose the President, but that would have upset the balance of power among the three branches of government, legislative, executive, and judiciary. 


Others called for a direct popular vote, but that would have left the decision in the hands of ill-informed voters who knew little about politicians outside their home state.


The nation’s founders hoped to quell and prevent the formation of powerful factions and political parties, 


and they wanted a mechanism that did not rely solely on popular majorities or Congress.  So they created electors. 


And they hoped the electors would be some of the brightest and best-informed people 


who would base their decisions on the candidates' merit.  Each state gets as many electoral votes as it has members in the Senate and House. 


This is what I learned about this College. There are 538 electoral votes at the moment and to win the presidency you need at least 270 votes.


Today and in the coming days, we'll see the Electoral College be created in the present elections. December 14 it will convene and formally decide who will be the next president of the United Staes.


We hold our breath.......................


Thank you for your attention again.


The Discussion


[13:20] andrea (andromedaprime) giggles

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good review of it all

[13:21] CB Axel nods

[13:21] andrea (andromedaprime): yep - great job of explaining a corrupt system

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): if the census goes as it has it may cause loss of not only seats of congress but also seats on the electoral college

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks it is really time to look a that group!!

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we say that every 4 years

[13:23] CB Axel: Right. Which is why the GOP is trying to mess up the census.

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep

[13:23] herman Bergson: I read that appointing those electors is often an inside job.....

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and has so far

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm ok

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not really

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the names are well known people

[13:23] andrea (andromedaprime): and we haven't even gotten to voter suppression or electoral fraud yet

[13:23] CB Axel: Most of the time they do, Ludova.

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh that ha

[13:23] herman Bergson: YEs,,,thr unfaithfull electors they are called :-)

[13:24] herman Bergson: YEs Andrea....

[13:24] CB Axel: The problem isn't the electors as much as it's the number of electors per each state.

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true yes

[13:24] Ludova (quippe.wylder): Did we have unfaithful electors in 2016?

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and also there has been manipulation of that

[13:24] herman Bergson: America profiling itself as the exceptional example of democracy is suppressing voting to the utmost....

[13:24] herman Bergson: Bizar

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in the states

[13:24] CB Axel: I don't think so, Ludova.

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is unbelievable

[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes Ludova...5

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm ive heard this as well and have been going on for 100s of years

[13:25] andrea (andromedaprime): its the "American" way LOL

[13:25] Ludova (quippe.wylder): Wow, and I never heard of it.

[13:25] herman Bergson: three democrates and two republicans

[13:25] CB Axel: Really Herman? In what states?

[13:25] herman Bergson: I dont know the details...

[13:25] CB Axel: Those 3 democrats did a crappy job. LOL

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): read about it not long ago on a site called howstuffworks how US have for centuries have tried stopping women, slaves and black people ect from voting

[13:26] herman Bergson: May have been 8...5 -3

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with uttermost terrible methods including the KKK massacre

[13:26] andrea (andromedaprime): yep

[13:27] Ludova (quippe.wylder): People group together and decide that anyone not in their group is not human.

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think that also in some states they have passed rules that if the largest number of votes was for candidate 1 then all the rest will flip over

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:27] Ludova (quippe.wylder): I hate that.

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to cadadate 1

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): candidate

[13:27] herman Bergson: of the most interesting things I learned about the US these months.....the criminal activity of voter suppression and Gerrymandering

[13:27] herman Bergson: I was flabbergasted....

[13:27] OmniAmor: aah there's Gerry

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i has been terrible this past few ears yes

[13:27] CB Axel: Only 2 states divide their electors according to votes.

[13:27] Ludova (quippe.wylder): My state is famous for Gerrymanding

[13:27] OmniAmor: I knew he was involved

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): years even

[13:27] herman Bergson: Who is Gerry , Omni?

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): gerrimandering

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sp

[13:28] herman Bergson: Ahhh...

[13:28] andrea (andromedaprime): neither a democracy nor a civilized nation but proclaiming that it is both with the full force of their military!

[13:28] herman Bergson: I have seen examples....really...unbelievable...

[13:28] OmniAmor: Connection to Gerrymandering

The term Gerrymandering is named after Elbridge Gerry, who, as Governor of Massachusetts in 1812, signed a bill that created a partisan district in the Boston area that was compared to the shape of a mythological salamander.

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the maps are drawn to make ridiculous voting

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right

[13:28] herman Bergson: Ah yes..I read about that...Boston

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): actually the courts have reversed some of the worst

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): down south

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but let others stay

[13:29] CB Axel: Both sides do it, but Republicans do it the  most.

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:29] andrea (andromedaprime): mind you, Britain uses a first-past-the post voting system so there are safe seats... not unlike the US Pres election :-(

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): with real malicious intent

[13:29] CB Axel: They choose their voters instead of letting the voters choose them.

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good way to put it

[13:30] herman Bergson: But just look at my postion.....

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): however

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): this year has more voters than in many many yeas!!!!!!

[13:30] herman Bergson: I grew up with the belief that the US was THE EXAMPLE of democracy....

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): amazing

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it was!!!!!!

[13:31] andrea (andromedaprime): it's a poor imitation

[13:31] herman Bergson: Well....for me....this is the day that Americans can prove it....

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well indeed

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a false and corrupt image

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fingers crossed

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hope for the best  now

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:31] CB Axel: Thanks to the electoral college it's never really been a democracy.

[13:31] herman Bergson: dont know how many fingers I try to keep crossed

[13:31] andrea (andromedaprime): what, a bent vote between two deplorables?!

[13:31] herman Bergson: Cant hardly type

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): imagine this year they put up a wall around the white house!!!!!!!!!!!

[13:32] herman Bergson: Absurd...and showing!

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trumps beloved wall?

[13:32] CB Axel: That and keeping everyone except for white, land-owning men from participating in that so-called democracy.

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and boardered up the windows of stores

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:32] CB Axel: 6 wall, Gemma.

[13:32] andrea (andromedaprime): did you see Trump smirking and holding up a bible?

[13:32] herman Bergson: Well..Trump finally got his wall, Gemma!

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it was there before

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): during those peaceful demonstrations just before the bible incident

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well id happily give him his wall, put him in a container with steel walls, weld id shut all around and dump it into the Marianers trench

[13:34] herman Bergson: The Dems should walk around the wall seven times and it will Jericho :-)

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): his base absolutely believes every word he says

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is amazing

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed

[13:34] CB Axel: LOL

[13:34] andrea (andromedaprime): especially the fundamentalists Gemma :-(

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep

[13:34] andrea (andromedaprime): oh and the white supremacists

[13:34] herman Bergson: I saw a woman who said....COVID will be over after November 3....

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh mainly yes

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:35] herman Bergson: She meant it...

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why do u think i want to sink him to the deepest place there is, because then its guaranteed NOONE will ever hear his blubbering any more

[13:35] andrea (andromedaprime): oh didn't you know - Trump faced off against covid and he won?

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he said it!! sort of that we would not hear much about it after election

[13:35] CB Axel: I was just listening to a podcast where it was said that evangelical Christianity was started to

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed andrea,

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just WhAT THE

[13:35] CB Axel: Oops. I didn't mean to post that.

[13:36] CB Axel: Anyway. I plan to just post COVID COVID COVID all over Facebook tomorrow.

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:36] CB Axel: Just to prove Trump wrong about not hearing about it tomorrow.

[13:36] herman Bergson: Save yourself the trouble will post itself all over the country

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the deaths are going up still

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trump even said we should drink disinfectant like soduim hypoclorite,

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats quite toxic if u ask me

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or get a shot of it

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)

[13:37] andrea (andromedaprime): but god is on his side so he can't lose

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes he was chosen

[13:37] andrea (andromedaprime): like that banker who does god's work

[13:37] CB Axel: Anyway, I think we need to do away with the electoral college and make a map of districts based on numbers of people and not their ideology.

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sure it keeps drinking water safe but that is a very small amount needed

[13:37] Ludova (quippe.wylder): I'm not sure I want to live in the U

[13:38] CB Axel: U? US of UK?

[13:38] Ludova (quippe.wylder): s if he manages to stay President, but I can't move

[13:38] CB Axel: Both are pretty messed up.

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i know

[13:38] andrea (andromedaprime): U U USA er K LOL

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa i saw something from a church where they praised trump and said he was sent from god

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): It will not be pretty

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

[13:38] andrea (andromedaprime): actually i don't like UK since it's a royalist term

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and tore that page

[13:39] CB Axel: Bejiita, those churches came about to maintain white supremacy.

[13:39] andrea (andromedaprime): yep

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm can imaging (shudders even more)

[13:39] andrea (andromedaprime): KKK hallelujah!

[13:39] herman Bergson: Well..I think all is clear here :-))

[13:40] herman Bergson: I read an interesting article today

[13:40] herman Bergson: an American historian explained the situation like this....

[13:40] herman Bergson: She said...

[13:41] herman Bergson: Possion of armes means freedom and abortion means murder for the `republicans

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes very true

[13:41] herman Bergson: Possesion of arms means murder and abortion means freedom for the Democrats

[13:41] CB Axel: Very true.

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the other way around

[13:41] andrea (andromedaprime): crude but roughly true ;)

[13:41] herman Bergson: That is how they oppose each other

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): opposite

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats like matter and antimatter, put together and BOOOOOOOOM

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but if you take the term out and say freedom to choose

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and indeed thats a bit what is going on between them it seems

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): rights ove women's body  is a better way to say it

[13:42] CB Axel: The right doesn't want anyone to have the freedom to choose anything.

[13:42] andrea (andromedaprime): debt slavery etc.

[13:42] herman Bergson: And that is very un liberal....

[13:43] CB Axel: They want everyone to be in lockstep with them.

[13:43] andrea (andromedaprime): ja wohl!

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:43] herman Bergson: in fact contrary to the US constitution where John Locke had a big influence in

[13:43] andrea (andromedaprime): oh no - Trump wrote the Constitution :-)

[13:44] herman Bergson: Oh...let me tell you a joke....

[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he has no clue what is says

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least he seems to believe he did

[13:44] CB Axel: The US constitution was not made for everyone. It was designed for white, land-owning men.

[13:44] CB Axel: And no one else.

[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): at the time yes

[13:44] herman Bergson: Bush Obama and Trump appeared before the throne of God

[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): why we have amendments

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well that fits trump for sure

[13:44] herman Bergson: And god asked bush...what do you believe in

[13:44] andrea (andromedaprime): war

[13:44] herman Bergson: He said...small government lower taxes

[13:45] herman Bergson: Good the lord said...stand next to me

[13:45] herman Bergson: And Yoou Obama?

[13:45] herman Bergson: Democracy, healthcare for all...

[13:45] andrea (andromedaprime): yay!

[13:45] herman Bergson: Good Stand next to me...

[13:45] herman Bergson: And you Trump...what do you believe in?

[13:46] herman Bergson: Trump said...I believe that you sit on my throne

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:46] CB Axel: I can't laugh at that. It's too true.

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i could just figure that

[13:46] CB Axel: I doubt that you in Europe can get it, but if you're in the US you should watch the filmed play "What the Constitution Means to Me."

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): inded that is him allright

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): UUGH

[13:46] CB Axel: It was the last play I got to see live in a theater. :(

[13:47] herman Bergson: I understand CB

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa ok

[13:47] CB Axel: But it got filmed before the lockdown.

[13:47] CB Axel: I voted abolish, btw. You'll know what that means if you watch it. :)

[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: where to see it online?

[13:48] CB Axel: It's on Amazon. Free with Prime.

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ahha ok

[13:48] herman Bergson: it on Youtube?

[13:48] CB Axel: I think you'd like it, Gemma.

[13:48] andrea (andromedaprime): "What the Constitution Means to Me is a 2017 American play by Heidi Schreck. The play premiered on Broadway on March 31, 2019 at the Hayes Theater, with Schreck herself in the leading role. Over the course of the play, Schreck addresses themes such as women's rights, immigration, and domestic abuse."

[13:48] CB Axel: Sadly, it's only on Amazom.

[13:48] CB Axel: *Amazon

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i have prime

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it has launched here in Sweden but not prime

[13:48] herman Bergson: No access to that

[13:49] herman Bergson: What I find most fascinating is that here Europe and the US are gathered here in one room...

[13:49] CB Axel: The script is supposed to be published on the 11th, but the publication date has already been pushed back twice, so I'm not holding my breath.

[13:50] herman Bergson: Especially  on this election day

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): us herman?

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:50] Max Chatnoir is online.

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed we are from all over

[13:50] herman Bergson: And we share the same worries

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mmm

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess yes

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess yes with this mess

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and you are as upset as we are because you see what it will mean in the wold

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that was a rhyme

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not just USA!

[13:51] herman Bergson: Indeed Gemma!

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): true Gemma

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true, this happens all over now

[13:52] herman Bergson: That is my greatest worry actually

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is the issue with many of his followers the don't see the international implications

[13:52] andrea (andromedaprime): USA has immense military power :-(

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): auctoritariant totalitarian powers come to might everywhere it seems

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): on thing I think trump wont use

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): should go in the other direction :(

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): his brain?

[13:53] herman Bergson: He is a coward in fact...

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): could cause things to start everywhere

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha indeed

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): else

[13:53] andrea (andromedaprime): if it suits Trump to use force he will

[13:53] herman Bergson: and financially there is no profit in war

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): his nukes?

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well that i really hope

[13:53] andrea (andromedaprime): there's lots of profit to be made through wars!

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): luckily he cant decide to just fire those off

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): killing the entire planet

[13:54] herman Bergson: Yes...more jobs on the graveyards in the US....

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ask the mothers who lost their sons Andrea

[13:55] andrea (andromedaprime): watch the arms manufacturers share prices rise and rise

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that would be horrible

[13:55] andrea (andromedaprime): what was that Beertje?

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): use war as a profit source, well they already do i guess

[13:55] Frederica Lexenstar is online.

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hopefully we may be smiling on Thursday

[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): [13:53] andrea: there's lots of profit to be made through wars!

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes

[13:56] andrea (andromedaprime): yes exactly

[13:56] CB Axel: Beertje, you're under the belief that human lives are important. That's not the case in Trump's America

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope so too Gemma

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): if we know a good count that is

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true, Trump could blow everyone up as long he was the last one standing

[13:56] CB Axel: Arms manufacturers are what makes America great. Not its people. :(

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just about him him and him

[13:57] herman Bergson: WEll....

[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i prefer to that in fortnite

[13:57] andrea (andromedaprime): we the people?

[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what little I've played ofit

[13:57] CB Axel: Life in the US should be interesting in the next few weeks.

[13:57] herman Bergson: We began with the principles of the liberal democracy as formulated by John Locke in 1732

[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but no I've never came close in there to be last man standing

[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:57] herman Bergson: We have to rethink our present situation.....

[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed true Herman

[13:58] herman Bergson: And the US has lost track of these basic ideas....

[13:58] herman Bergson: and fell into the trap of binary thinking...

[13:58] andrea (andromedaprime): European nations must stand together for peace, justice and democracy.... er sorry about brexit, folks

[13:59] herman Bergson: But that is its culture...the culture of winners and losers....

[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): binary thinking is for computers, not humans

[13:59] herman Bergson: If Trump is re-elected Europe will be on its own Andrea

[13:59] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it has been for almost 4 years

[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): speaking of wich, time to continue on with my Chernobyl simulator and make it go BAUUUUM in Trumps head

[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:59] herman Bergson: Europe will have to re-think its geopolitical position on this globe

[13:59] andrea (andromedaprime): Europe needs to get its act together!

[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): here it is if u also want

[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to literally blow off some steam with

[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[14:00] andrea (andromedaprime): did you say 3 mile island?

[14:00] herman Bergson: No...

[14:00] CB Axel: With the fall of the US, the EU is more important than ever.

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its a realistic simulation of how to operate the RBMK reactor in Chernobyl

[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and Putin sits smiling

[14:01] herman Bergson: Yes CB...there is a good chance that with 4 more years of Trump China will take over

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): found it quite interesting but its tricky, well never operated a power plant before of any kind so

[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Xi sits smiling

[14:01] herman Bergson: Putin is the laughing third party indeed Gemma

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)

[14:01] andrea (andromedaprime): Putin/Trump/Johnson/Ping.....

[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): The Fat Boy is laughing

[14:02] CB Axel: A battle between Putin and Xi will be interesting.

[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Kim is building

[14:02] herman Bergson: Wont happen CB

[14:02] andrea (andromedaprime): not much tension between Russia and China

[14:02] herman Bergson: Russia is in a pretty weak condition actually

[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (feels the marching drums of WW3 approaching)

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders again)

[14:02] andrea (andromedaprime): Japan, Korea vs China

[14:03] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that must never happen

[14:03] herman Bergson: Japan, Taiwan....

[14:03] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not time for war now

[14:03] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): with covid

[14:03] herman Bergson: It could start with Taiwan vs. China

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed no more wars, esp not world wars

[14:03] CB Axel: Russia will have no position if Trump loses, I would imagine.

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i would not want to experience e that

[14:04] andrea (andromedaprime): i think Putin favours Trump because Biden is more of a warmonger

[14:04] herman Bergson: It would lose its money launderer, CB :-)

[14:04] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh gosh

[14:04] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): He is not

[14:04] andrea (andromedaprime): look at his voting record

[14:04] herman Bergson: Trump?...I assume he is

[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (wonders how big washing machine he have)

[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BIG i guess

[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Biden was involved at a time when it made sense in some ways

[14:05] CB Axel: I think Putin likes Trump because he can get him to do anything he wants in the US.

[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes

[14:05] andrea (andromedaprime): yep- they have oil, we want it so invade!

[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like a Marionette

[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): We have all the oil we need thank you

[14:05] herman Bergson: That is because he has leverage...he knows about the money laundering

[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): foget that

[14:06] andrea (andromedaprime): oh yes and both Trump and Biden love fracking

[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh no lololol

[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Biden does NOT love fracking

[14:06] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not Biden?

[14:06] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope

[14:06] andrea (andromedaprime): ask him

[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): BUT cant stop it everywhere

[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he will not allow it in Nationallands

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he will promoter alternative

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fuels

[14:07] andrea (andromedaprime): hope you're right Gemma

[14:07] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah yes

[14:07] herman Bergson: My friends, I think we can go on forever....

[14:07] CB Axel: I'm sure she's right.

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): actually  fracking is sort of sick on its own

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): because the price of oil is so low

[14:07] CB Axel: Right, Herman.

[14:07] andrea (andromedaprime): i've heard all sorts of promises from politicians before....

[14:07] herman Bergson: I guess it is time to end  :-)

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[14:07] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true

[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh

[14:08] CB Axel: There's no point in discussing all this now.

[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good rants!!!!!

[14:08] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[14:08] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well u push chemicals under ground, u crash the rock so gas gets into the ground water and into houses which blow up killing people

[14:08] andrea (andromedaprime) grins

[14:08] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[14:08] herman Bergson: No....wait and wake up tomorrow and listen to the news.....:-)

[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wil be too soon maybe

[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we will see

[14:08] andrea (andromedaprime) puts fingers in ears

[14:08] herman Bergson: I wish us all good luck for the this historic moment

[14:08] andrea (andromedaprime) sings La La La very loudly

[14:09] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i amg oing to watch a movie until about 9ish

[14:09] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): son yes well ill hope for the best

[14:09] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats all we can do

[14:09] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and hope this mess will sort out

[14:09] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for the good side

[14:09] andrea (andromedaprime): love and peace everyone :-)

[14:09] herman Bergson: Gonna be late for me tonight , I think....

[14:09] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[14:09] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not necessary Herman

[14:09] herman Bergson: YES andrea....!

[14:09] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wait til tomorrow

[14:09] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): really

[14:09] CB Axel: Bejiita, blowing up houses isn't the issue really. It's more that those chemicals get into the ground water and possibly cause earthquakes.

[14:10] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes cb

[14:10] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....^_^

[14:10] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm that too, there are many issues with this method

[14:10] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[14:10] CB Axel: See you Thursday if the US isn't in a police state by then. LOL

[14:10] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well ill see u next time

[14:10] CB Axel: Bye.

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