Thursday, November 19, 2020

882: The Final Composition...

 Step by step we are collecting the ingredients, that create the narrative of Liberalism. Locke put the individual with its private property in the center.


The individuals create a nation-state and the main task of this state organization is to protect the private properties of the individual.


Next Adam Smith adds self-interest to the individual. You should not interpret this as the hallmark of personal greed.


Acting based on self-interest is beneficial to society. The baker bakes his bread because he wants to make money, but his bread is beneficial to the buyer.


Advice to the state: don't meddle with this process. Let the free market do its job and all will be well eventually.


For Locke private property was mainly the product of labor and Adam Smith added to that that the Wealth of Nations increase by an efficient division of labor.


To that, he added the observation that for a national economy we need means to organize this labor and that capital, in particular, plays a crucial role.


However important the process of division of labor is, the divided tasks must be brought together. This is where the entrepreneur comes into the picture. 


He is the one who provides his employees with the necessary equipment, who buys machines, and who pays them before the product of their work is sold in the market. 


In doing so, he not only deploys an amount of capital but also tries to act as efficiently as possible. 


There are many ways to do this, such as purchasing machines that make work easier, better organization of business operations, promoting useful skills, reducing transportation costs, and so on. 


The result is often that the productivity of the labor employed increases, which at a certain point is also reflected in the increased prosperity of the entire country. 


In fact, labor productivity grows faster as more capital is deployed. As a rule, those investments lead to a profit, although you never know how big it is. 


The entrepreneur or provider of capital takes this risk, and THE MARKET does its job here too, according to Adam Smith.


People prefer to invest their money in industries that yield a lot of profit, but if they go too far in that, 


the profit in such enterprises falls and their capital goes to other industries. Thus, the private capital of the land is distributed naturally without the State acting. 


In Smith's mind, thus, the class of merchants, entrepreneurs, and manufacturers are decisive. They do society a great service, not because they understand politics or state policy, 


but precisely because they are busy with their business and their interests day in, day out. Advice to the state: don't meddle with the entrepreneurs.

This all sounds like a nice coherent narrative. No wonder why liberalism has "won". However, one question is missing in the story.


Where do all that capitals, that is invested in industries come from, if you project this on Smith's time? Who owns the money and those means of production? 


How do those owners justify their rights in possession of all that money?


Yuval Noah Harari explains in his book "Sapiens"  (2011) why the narrative is what it is: it is THE way of achieving co-operation among thousands of people because they believe in the narrative.


This ability to believe in such narratives is a unique quality of Homo Sapiens, which has brought us where we now are in history.


Thank you for your attention again....


MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Gabriel van den Brink:"Ruw Ontwaken uit een Neoliberale Droom",, 2020

The Discussion

[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:22] herman Bergson: To put it in other words...Smith overlooks the distribution of wealth, the relation between haves and have-nots

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:22] herman Bergson: MArx will bring this up for debate ^_^

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Smith provided a basic working baseplate of how it should work

[13:23] herman Bergson: I agree, Bejiita, that is how it sounds...

[13:23] andrea (andromedaprime): "THE way"? There are plenty of alternative narratives

[13:23] herman Bergson: Of course Andrea

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa

[13:24] herman Bergson: But you know how popular liberalism is these days

[13:24] herman Bergson: in 1989 they cheered  "We have won!"

[13:24] herman Bergson: Fukuyama called it the end of history....

[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes but what did they do with that victory?

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when everything is fully optimized finally

[13:25] herman Bergson: Qwll...a banking crisis in 2008 for instance Beertje :-))

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then came the greed factor sneaking in

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the perfect system crashed

[13:26] andrea (andromedaprime) mulls over the coincidence that Fuk..u.. has a particular meaning

[13:26] herman Bergson: Wages that never were raised since 1980 while profits increased enormously

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and now we have a few owning 99 % of all wealth

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a lucky few

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and we can only hope that Robin Hood will soon show up and bring equality

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): once again

[13:27] andrea (andromedaprime): not luck but inheritance

[13:27] herman Bergson: So we need to continue our investigation into the awakening from a neo-liberal dream and look for an alternative

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:27] andrea (andromedaprime): mafia-style elites

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but its crazy when one single person like Amazons VD alone have enough money to build the LHC machine 100 times

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a device the entire europe financed together

[13:29] herman Bergson: You know...a funny thing is that Americans love to be billionaires....

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): STATUS STATUS STATUS!

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what do they do with all that money?

[13:30] herman Bergson: ANd when the USSR collapsed....all of a sudden you also has post communist weird

[13:30] oola Neruda: depends upon the person

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): let it grow even more in a pile gaining them even more status they can brawl about

[13:31] Dien (djdien.bailey) is offline.

[13:31] herman Bergson: The Soviets seemed to have been as capitalistic as we are :-)

[13:31] oola Neruda: Jimmy Carter has a good gig but I'm not sure of the source of his income

[13:31] herman Bergson: peanuts, oola :-))

[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is a gig Oola?

[13:31] oola Neruda: peanuts could not suport all the things he does....

[13:32] oola Neruda: gig... the thing you do

[13:32] SAHUD 10.0.34 BETA (WEAR ME!): Enter SIM: lillee Resident

[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok thank you

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the issue is money in a pile do no good,there is a say that money should work

[13:32] CB Axel: Ex-presidents continue to be paid a lot of money after they leave office.

[13:32] herman Bergson: a mucisian has a gig ..means he can give a concert for instance

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): money in a pile do not work

[13:33] CB Axel: A gig is a job.

[13:33] herman Bergson: lol...wonder how much Trump will earn :-))

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it don't contribute to the economy

[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he has to pay first I guess

[13:33] herman Bergson: Politics is his only income...he has enormous debts at the moment

[13:33] CB Axel: The gig economy includes such jobs as Uber driver.

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): first i take all his money, then i divide it out to all who needs (like robon hood) and then i sink Trump in Marianer Trench

[13:34] herman Bergson: SO Trump has afuture CB?

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then im happy

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:34] CB Axel: Sadly, he does.

[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): in a cole mine

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes and sets of a methane blast

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BAUUUUUM

[13:35] herman Bergson: Well...I guess that the liberal picture is clear for you all now.....

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that will do

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:35] oola Neruda: do you think banks will ever trust him again after this

[13:35] herman Bergson: and what the liberal narrative is....

[13:35] CB Axel: The Secretary of the Treasury pays a taxable pension to the president. Former presidents receive a pension equal to the pay that the head of an executive department (Executive Level I) would be paid; as of 2020, it is $219,200 per year.[5] The pension begins immediately after a president's departure from office.

[13:35] oola Neruda: or anyone who either works for him or with him

[13:36] CB Axel: I was thinking about that, oola.

[13:36] oola Neruda: have you read the book his lawyer wrote?

[13:36] herman Bergson: Cohen?

[13:36] oola Neruda: ues

[13:36] oola Neruda: yes

[13:36] CB Axel: I heard someone talking about the future Trump library and how it probably won't be a non-profit like other presidential libraries are.

[13:36] herman Bergson: I haven't

[13:36] oola Neruda: he names names.... and explains "how"

[13:36] CB Axel: And probably won't be a library

[13:37] CB Axel: It may end up being more like a theme park.

[13:37] oola Neruda: lol

[13:37] herman Bergson: Kind of JUrasic park I assume

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the Trump park

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)

[13:37] CB Axel: Like Disneyland.

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders again)

[13:37] CB Axel: All fantasy and raking in money.

[13:38] herman Bergson: He is already doing that....

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaaa yes and Trump can be the T Rex

[13:38] oola Neruda: nods

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a very clumsy T Rex if u ask me

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:39] herman Bergson: But because this doesn't interest us, let's stick to our theme and if you have any remark or question ...let  it be heard...

[13:39] herman Bergson: otherwise we may end our discussion

[13:39] CB Axel: All I have to add is a quote from Thornton Wilder: The Secretary of the Treasury pays a taxable pension to the president. Former presidents receive a pension equal to the pay that the head of an executive department (Executive Level I) would be paid; as of 2020, it is $219,200 per year.[5] The pension begins immediately after a president's departure from office.

[13:39] oola Neruda: why is there so much bad mouth things said about liberals

[13:39] oola Neruda: like Berny

[13:39] CB Axel: Oops. Wrong quote. Sorry.

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well lets go back to Lockes ideal and so balanced business as buisness should work to agin EvERYONE

[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i heard that all presidents have a portrait in the white house, from trump all they have to do is smash a ripe mango against the wall

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gain

[13:40] CB Axel: “Money is like manure; it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow.”

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats a comparison, and a true one

[13:41] CB Axel: Beertje, I saw a potential Trump portrait that was a dumpster on fire.

[13:41] herman Bergson: Don't worry oola....there may be said friendly words about it here in the future

[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol

[13:41] Rebecca (rebecca.rozen) is offline.

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): an as said money should work, i have a good reserve but im always supporting my fav companies buing things like coffee, pizza and other things from them

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to keep them rolling a little

[13:41] CB Axel: Oola, Bernie isn't a liberal in the European sense of the word.

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even in these covid times

[13:42] CB Axel: He's a democratic socialist.

[13:42] CB Axel: Or progressive.

[13:42] herman Bergson: yes

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:42] herman Bergson: he isprogressive is a better title

[13:42] oola Neruda: Thank you, CB

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:42] herman Bergson: Thank you again for your participation :-)

[13:43] CB Axel: We spent a whole class discussing what a liberal is. :)

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:43] herman Bergson: please feel free to continue on Mr. T issues, but

[13:43] herman Bergson: class dismissed ^_^

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Bring Robin Hood!

[13:43] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

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