Thursday, March 4, 2021

907: There is something happening....

This rough awakening from the neo;iberal dream, which we are discussing in this project is not some kind of wishful thinking. It is a fact.


It is happening, at least in Europe. The US still has a long way to go, although people like Michael Sandel (1953 - ..) ring the alarm in the US.


He is a Harvard University law professor and an American political philosopher, who wrote the superb book " What Money Can't Buy; the moral limits of markets" (2012)   


But here in Europe, at least in the Netherlands, the issue is already part of the public debate.


One of the chief editors of the newspaper I read, Stevo Akkermans, wrote a short column in last Saturday's edition.


I gonna quote it in full length as factual proof, that neoliberalism is losing ground because of its a(nti) social attitude and policies.


-QUOTE- Hugo de Jonge [Dutch Minister of Public Health ] said it this week: if he had learned anything from the COVID crisis, 


it would be that the free market is not going to solve our problems. 


Even if he didn't mention the word, you immediately knew what he was talking about: the damned neoliberalism. 


For a long time it was the favorite enemy of the left, now it has also fallen out of favor with the right. 


However, Patrick van Schie, director of the Telders Foundation, a conservative think-tank of the right, argues in this section that we are fighting a ghost. 


Neoliberalism, which dates back to the 1930s, is, in his view, very different from what its opponents make. 


If we leave the terminological question for what it is, we see that something is indeed going on. It is not for nothing that it is an important issue in the elections. [General elections are this March]


How do we organize the collective project we call society? 


Our journalist Wilfred van de Poll went to look at the green energy cooperative "Deltawind" in the province Zeeland and noted a nice definition from its director Monique Sweep.


"The idea is: as citizens you have a common interest and pool your financial resources to take care of each other." 


But in the meantime, this citizens' initiative also encounters "the sacred must" of the free market, with all the associated disadvantages, which brings us back to Hugo de Jonge's lesson. -END QUOTE-


I could have written it myself. Neoliberalism is questioned in a lot of European countries. Even the right-wing parties in the Netherlands begin to abandon their worldview.


Thank you for your attention again.....


MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Gabriel van den Brink:"Ruw Ontwaken uit een Neoliberale Droom",, 2020


The Discussion

[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:16] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:17] herman Bergson: There is growing a huge gap between Europe and the US,

[13:17] CB Axel: I don't think neoliberalism would be as popular in the US as it is if we didn't have such a diverse population.

[13:17] CB Axel: If the US was all white things would be different.

[13:17] Laila Schuman: can you define neo liberalism?

[13:17] herman Bergson: You have more than a diverse population, CB....

[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we have a diverse population in Europe too

[13:18] herman Bergson: A definition....

[13:18] CB Axel: But is it likely that whites will become a minority in the near future?

[13:19] herman Bergson: I guess it begins with Milton Friedman and his thesis that the only goal of a company is to maximize profits. As such the company is AMORAL.

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): liberalism on steroid where market forces money  and greed is running out of control. Where money is more valued then human life

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in other words out of control

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all is just about making more money

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and now it seems more and more are realizing we cant go on like this

[13:20] herman Bergson: Yes and the maximization of profits has to be achieved in a free market...

[13:20] CB Axel: Laila, in Europe the neoliberals are the conservatives. They want to do away with regulations that hamper capitalist ability to make money at the expense of everyone else.

[13:20] herman Bergson: Indeed CB

[13:20] herman Bergson: Good remark!

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes and endless profit increases

[13:20] CB Axel: They want to be liberated from rules and regulations.

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true CB

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said out of control

[13:21] herman Bergson: For instance.....generating profits by destroying and polluting the environment is OK with such companies

[13:21] CB Axel: It still takes me a little while to wrap my head around liberal meaning the exact opposite here in the US.

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Herman

[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes CB....pretty funny issue

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its crazy

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and this Bolsonaro destroying entire Amazonas for markets sake

[13:22] herman Bergson: For instance....

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ignoring the fact that the oplanet wont survive without it

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for profit

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when it has come to this we have a BIG problem

[13:23] herman Bergson: They don't care for people....a government doesnt care for people but only for the  profits of the big companies

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and an endless competition among them who can make most profit

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and then boasting about it

[13:24] herman Bergson: And cooperative thinking takes the people as the statingpoint of industrial activity

[13:24] herman Bergson: and when you care for people you also care for the environment you live in

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true indeed

[13:25] herman Bergson: Finallly Shel, the oil company, is convicted for the huge environmental damage they have caused in Nigeria

[13:26] herman Bergson: But the main point of today is, that the debate about neoliberalism is not some abstract flying in the blue is a real political fact here in Europe

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats good

[13:26] Laila Schuman: Merchants of Doubt is a good book to read on the subject...

[13:27] CB Axel: I've heard of that book.

[13:27] CB Axel: Oil companies need to read the handwriting on the wall.

[13:27] herman Bergson: The title suggest something indeed

[13:27] CB Axel: Ford Motor Company is going to make all their pick-up trucks electric soon.

[13:27] Laila Schuman: lying about a product... not caring what it does to you... just so you buy it...

[13:28] CB Axel: And I just heard yesterday another car company (I can't remember which one) is going to make all their cars electric.

[13:28] Laila Schuman: cigarettes

[13:28] herman Bergson: That's the trade, yes

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:28] herman Bergson: Our class is already electric CB :-)

[13:29] CB Axel: :)

[13:29] Laila Schuman: smiles

[13:29] herman Bergson: The only one producing CO2 must be me with my pipe :-))

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its running on a server

[13:29] CB Axel: I tp electric. Haven't used petroleum for teleporting ever. :)

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and servers is running on electricity as are our computers

[13:29] herman Bergson: You have to teach me that CB :-)))

[13:30] CB Axel: If we're alive and metabolizing carbon based life forms, we're all producing CO2. :)

[13:30] herman Bergson: Cows do by farting :-))

[13:30] CB Axel: And people don't?

[13:30] herman Bergson: No comment :-)

[13:30] CB Axel: We're not as bad as cows, but we do fart.

[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): depends on how many beans

[13:31] CB Axel: :)

[13:31] herman Bergson: can burn

[13:31] herman Bergson: But we are off subject :-)

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:31] herman Bergson: So I guess we are done with it for today :-)

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (feels a bad smell in the air) EEEEW what was in those snacks Herman!?

[13:32] CB Axel: No we're not. We're talking about those damn neo-liberal cows who think they should be able to fart as much as they like!

[13:32] herman Bergson: Pretty non controverial lecture today :-)

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:32] herman Bergson: lol

[13:33] herman Bergson: Well...I love the silence :-)

[13:34] herman Bergson: No  cows around :-)

[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no fart to hear:))

[13:34] herman Bergson: lol

[13:34] herman Bergson: SO, thank you all again....

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:34] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...

[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:35] Laila Schuman: thank you for the definition ... it really helped

[13:35] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman and class. 

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