Thursday, April 8, 2021

914: Principles...

  Patterns in themselves do not explain anything, that is what principles aim to do. 

Patterns are perceptible, while principles deal with the underlying relationships between things and are therefore not sensory perceptible. 

   

Principles are theoretical in nature and are therefore more difficult to verify or refute than patterns. 

    

In a sense, patterns are more certain knowledge than principles. Principles take a decisive step beyond patterns. 

   

Principles reveal an underlying regularity with which they attempt to explain the "superficial" patterns. 

    

In my opinion, it is a thoroughly human quality to explain, and even understand, patterns based on deeper principles. 

   

Thus, the frequency of name inheritance can be understood through kinship principles. 

    

Legal rules can sometimes be traced back to deeper principles such as the principle of retaliation that we find in many legal systems. 

    

The patterns in the planetary movements have been reduced to underlying principles. 

   

People have also sought out principles underlying patterns in the human body, in language, music, art, literature, the depiction of reality, and more. 

  

The search for patterns and their underlying principles is found all over the world. The concepts of principles and patterns thus seem universal. 

   

Principles are at their best when they can predict new patterns, just as patterns can predict new phenomena or events. 

   

But when exactly do we speak of a principle? In this project I will use the word principle when multiple patterns are brought under one denominator. 

   

By principle I understand a generalization that underlies patterns. Often principles themselves can also be generalized to deeper and then to even deeper principles. 

  

Consider the notion of the "universal laws" in natural science. A principle is therefore nothing more than a statement that applies to more than one pattern.

    

We will see that people are often convinced that principles explain patterns. That is an interesting view, but if patterns are in fact just descriptions of regularities, a principle derived from them is too.

 

The principle therefore also does not tell WHY the pattern is the way it is. The funny thing is that in practice we still see principles as explanations. 

   

The pattern is that the stone keeps falling to the ground and we take the principle of gravity as an explanation, but in fact it only describes the same in a more general way. 

  

Although pattern searching also occurs in other living beings, the search for explanatory principles appears to be a uniquely human trait for the time being.

   

In our research into the history of knowledge, we will not start from one center, such as Europe or the West, but from several centers, 

  

including India, Africa, China, the Arab world, Oceania, including Tonga and pre-Columbian America, among others the Inca Empire and the Mayan Empire. 

  

It is interesting to discuss whether there has been an exchange of knowledge between these knowledge centers and to what extent.

   

So, lots of work to do. Thank you for your attention again....



  

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
 http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm
Rens Bod: "Een Wereld vol Patronen".  2019


The Discussion


[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 

[13:18] herman Bergson: Maybe I was too fast, but the fun part of this lecture is this WHY issue.....

[13:18] herman Bergson: well...it is to me :-)

[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (processing)

[13:19] herman Bergson: principles....generalizations are just another description of what happens in  a pattern.....it does not tell you WHY it happens

[13:19] herman Bergson: And just that is what philosophers love to tell you...the WHY of things and events:-)

[13:20] herman Bergson: Theologians do....they say...it is God's will ...case closed :-))

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): isn't that a question of all times

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): an analogy, if a pattern is say an object i have created in say Unreal or unity then the principle is the scripts that make that object work (even i DONT by any means need to follow any physical laws here, I can make an apple falling up if i want)

[13:20] herman Bergson: like we are Beertje ^_^

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least somewhat so

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): simplified

[13:21] herman Bergson: you can use an object in several environments and use the same script....then the script can be seen as the principle of the regularity, yes :-)

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the script is attached to the object and gives it behavior just like gravity attracts an apple in general

[13:22] herman Bergson: But there is a tricky aspect regarding this WHY I now realize.....

[13:23] herman Bergson: there are TWO whys.....

[13:23] herman Bergson: WHY one is the question....what caused it.....and that is how principles work in science...

[13:24] herman Bergson: WHY two is....with what purpose or goal does it do what it does......

[13:24] herman Bergson: This is the classic Aristoleian teleological question.....

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa yes

[13:25] herman Bergson: Things act with a purpose....According to Aristotle....

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why are things like they are

[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): did he ever discover what that was?

[13:25] herman Bergson: That is the point Beertje......

[13:25] herman Bergson: we have dropped this teleological approach of reality.....

[13:26] herman Bergson: Take evolution.....it has no goal or purpose at all....it is just some evolution which ends up with some results....arbitrary

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but why is there evolution?

[13:27] herman Bergson: Like we are an arbitrary result of evolution too :-))

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it seems a bit strange for sure

[13:27] CB Axel: The why of evolution is to keep a species alive.

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): on what purpose CB?

[13:28] herman Bergson: Due to millions of regularities in how matter behaves Beertje

[13:28] oola Neruda: am thinking of primitive cultures looking at the sky... seeing all kinds of things... actual and abstract

[13:28] CB Axel: I have no idea.

[13:28] CB Axel: I don't know why there is life.

[13:28] oola Neruda: they found the equinox and solstice... among the many other things...

[13:28] oola Neruda: naming constelations...

[13:28] oola Neruda: patterns

[13:29] herman Bergson: yes oola....

[13:29] herman Bergson: But keep in mind these two WHY questions.....after the cause and after the purpose.....

[13:29] herman Bergson: The "cause" answer is for the scientists....

[13:30] herman Bergson: the "purpose" answer is for believers and theologians, I guess

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and what is for philosophers?

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): CERN might be able to answer some with their machines but everything is not particle physics, and also u cant study gravity with a particle accelerator because they only operate in the microcosm regime while gravity roams the macrocosm

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so no one really still understands gravity

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just there and its mass related

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): more mass = higher gravity

[13:31] herman Bergson: for philosophers it is to tell you that you have to stay vigilant because of these two WHY questions

[13:31] CB Axel: CERN will find patterns, but they still won't know why.

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats true

[13:32] herman Bergson: that means...they still don't know what the underlying principles are...in other words...what caused the patterns

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like WHY is there a higgs field , what generates it and why will everything disappear suddenly if it vanished

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well the latest one is somewhat in the theory but still

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its crazy stuf

[13:33] CB Axel: WHY is why man invented god.

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa indeed i can see that connection

[13:33] herman Bergson: there is no reason  for its existence, Bejiita, just a cause which we don't know yet

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): esp regarding that evolution part

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there is nother newer theory now that we were designed by superintelligent aliens

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): don't remember the name of this theory

[13:34] CB Axel: They can't be all that intelligent. Look at what a mess we've made of the world. :)

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha

[13:34] herman Bergson: that's the same question we ask god, Bejiita

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ILL NUKE YOU IF YOU NUKE ME!

[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why invent a stupid human?

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BOOOOOOM KABLAMMMMM!

[13:34] herman Bergson: WHY did you create us...were you bored, curious, experimenting?

[13:35] CB Axel: And the WHY's just keep coming.

[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): just for fun I guess

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): maybee

[13:35] oola Neruda: lonely

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): God is playing Civ

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 

[13:35] herman Bergson: For the right answers I refer you to to George Carlin :-)

[13:35] CB Axel: :)

[13:35] herman Bergson: haha,. CB knows :-)

[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a comedian?

[13:36] CB Axel: I'm not sure even he understood why. He just knew what a mess we've made of everything.

[13:36] herman Bergson: Check him out on Youtube.....

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki

[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje...hilarious one

[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ah:)))

[13:38] herman Bergson: Well..I guess it is a good thing to end our discussion with a reference to George Carlin :-))

[13:38] herman Bergson: Unless you know a funnier comedian......class dismissed...:-)

[13:38] herman Bergson: Thank you all again :-)

[13:38] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman

[13:39] oola Neruda: thinking we are entering dangerous territory

[13:39] herman Bergson: Keep that WHY issue in mind....

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes

[13:40] herman Bergson: What caused something....or what is the purpose of something.....find ut what the why question means

[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class :-)

[13:40] herman Bergson: two diffferent discussions

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed thats the most tricky part

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exciting

[13:41] oola Neruda: and finding repetition...often where you do not expect it

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fractals and stuff

[13:41] herman Bergson: Just the question WHY DID YO DO THAT????

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all in nature and sooo complex

[13:41] herman Bergson: It means two things

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but cool

[13:42] herman Bergson: What made  you do that

[13:42] herman Bergson: and to what purpose did you do that

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): god is a mathematicna AND artist = created fractals and put onto everything

[13:42]   Carma   (carma.caerndow) is online.

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): leaves, snail shells ect

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also snowflakes are a piece of art

[13:43] herman Bergson: So he was bored being god, I guess Bejiita?

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why did he or she do that Bejiita

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same reason i create games and 3d print weird things

[13:43] CB Axel: But are they purposely works of art, or do we just perceive them as artistic?

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its a drive

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so you are a god?

[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-)

[13:43] herman Bergson whispers: He is Beertje :-)

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i wished i was

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and thus could solve everything occurring now

[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): must be a lonely job

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like this Corona shit

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): making it undone


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