The death of Jimmy Carter triggered the publication of several articles about him in my daily newspaper. Here, I want to present you a few quotes from a recent article that relate closely to our current theme.
- QUOTE - “Jimmy Carter was in the Enlightened tradition of presidents like Thomas Jefferson,” says Gerben Bakker, philosopher and analyst at The Hague Centre for Strategic Studies. “According to that universalistic morality, you respect the rights of individuals other than yourself.
“Trumpism completely unsettles this moral agenda. In times of great threats, people often turn to powerful figures, and we see that happening now."
“It may be unwise for a politician to promise that you will never lie, but it does show moral excellence if a leader tries to do so,” says Paul van Tongeren, emeritus professor of philosophical ethics in Nijmegen and Leuven.
“In my opinion, the weakness of Carter's presidency has been wrongly linked to his moral qualities in many comments. “It is often suggested that amoral or immoral leaders like Trump are more effective than moral leaders like Carter.
But it seems paradoxical to me to say that it can ever be better to be worse. If you organize peace in an amoral or immoral way, is such a peace actually better than if you continue the war on moral grounds?“
"Politicians sometimes have to get their hands dirty to achieve morally desirable results, that is an uncomfortable truth that the American political philosopher Michael Walzer already formulated. We know that Trump does not shy away from that." - END QUOTE -
The picture here is that Jimmy Carter was weak as a president due to his moral integrity and that as a politician, you have to be willing to get dirty hands to be strong and paradoxically even can achieve morally desirable results.
In the previous lecture, I claimed that the idea of the virtuous man is not a creation of Ancient Greek philosophers, but that this idea can be found in several cultures.
In other words, you could assume that homo sapiens actually KNOWS how he should live and behave to create a world of peace and welfare for all.
But here is what made me wonder. Say, you call Carter an idealist and the politician with dirty hands a realist. In this scenario the realist is seen as the wise guy and the idealist as naive, that is, this idealism has a negative connotation.
This means that at this moment in the evolution of homo sapiens, he has accepted, and thinks it is normal, to behave like an aggressive chimp and a peace-loving bonobo at the same time.
We are easily inclined to believe that we are some kind of endpoint of evolution, but is that the case? Life on earth exists about 3.5 billion years and homo sapiens only some 300,000 years. He is still a blip in time on the evolutionary scale,
Nevertheless, he evolved from hierarchical tribalism and has succeeded already in creating full democracy in 24 of the 197 countries in the world. It went from 9 to 24 in less than 500 years.
So why would evolution not show us that in some 3000 years, the "weak" idealist is eventually the fittest to survive on this planet? Until then we have to cultivate our virtue of hope.
The floor is yours.... thank you ....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaaa
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Mr T doesn't like a democratie
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he is an autocrat
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: Thank you Herman. That is an excellent question.
[13:18] herman Bergson: Just look at the calendar on the wall in the corner to the left of me....
[13:18] herman Bergson: No word about T, please
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): In this age democracy shoule be even much more widespread but it is going backward as i can see it at the moment
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just look at Afghanistan for ex
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: I may have told you all once of the man in one of my church groups who said more or less that if he didn't think God was standing over him with a whip, he wouldn't find it necessary to behave well.
[13:19] herman Bergson: It has its ups and downs...it is a difficult learning process
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): forcing people to live like in the Middle Ages and women have no rights whatsoever, things like that
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but hopefully freedom will arrive
[13:20] herman Bergson: yes I remember...and I found it a rather dumb point of view....you still are a responsible social animal
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:21] herman Bergson: We still have some serious limitations.....
[13:21] herman Bergson: Wordt one is our black/white reasoning....
[13:21] herman Bergson: Second one is still our primitive tribal drives....
[13:21] herman Bergson: Just look at soccer hooligans
[13:22] Max Chatnoir: soccer hooligans?
[13:22] herman Bergson: But as we used to say...there also are good people... helpful and unselfish...
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes burning the entire city down after their team loses a game
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): more or less
[13:22] herman Bergson: those are violent supporters of a soccer club, Max
[13:22] Max Chatnoir: Yikes!
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): plundering stores wrecking cars and trying more or less to kill each other
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: So they do more than cheat!
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): over a game
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they only come to the game to fight
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sheesh
[13:23] herman Bergson: They create a lot of damage after a soccer game of their club sometimes
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes indeed Beertje
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true indeed, their main purpose is just fighting
[13:24] herman Bergson: But the good people among us may be signs of evolution still at work :-)
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as u said before, more people are ok
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yet we are still to primitive, so we call them weak...
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: Yes, Jimmy Carter was a good role model!
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the few that destroy and opress create so much problems for everyone
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): esp despotic world leaders
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because of one word, power
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita, but drop the idea that all problems will and can be solved in our lifetime....we are just a millisecond on eternity ....give it a few thousand years :-)
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and power being misused
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but still
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: But a lot of people are suffering during the learning process.
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yes, Max, even the bible teaches us that...God killed all humanity in a gigantic flood and kept only a few alive... the better genes perhaps?
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: I understand that people who have creative gifts that many others can benefit from may feel that they have no compulsion to help beyond making their gifts available.
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): must have some bad genes between them
[13:28] herman Bergson: WHo is perfect, Beertje ? :-)
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): don't know
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: But the fruits of those gifts should be more generally shared.
[13:30] herman Bergson: That hapens, Max....
[13:30] herman Bergson: just think of all medicines that are creayed by scientists
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but then only the rich people can afford them because the companies making them are greedy
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: and cars and airplanes and computers, etc.
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): life supporting medicines ect
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): those should be for everyone needing them
[13:32] herman Bergson: There will come an end to these rich people.....
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope things wil change indeed
[13:32] herman Bergson: It may have started already....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes feels like that
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something might be stirring
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): how?
[13:33] herman Bergson: the moment these individuals start meddling in politics, they will be exposed
[13:33] herman Bergson: being a successful businessman doesn't mean you know how to run a country...let alone, how to think socially in terms of sharing
[13:34] herman Bergson: In my opinion this individual Musk already has demonstrated his unsocial attitudes
[13:35] herman Bergson: At the end, people won't accept it anymore....
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, it started so good with electric cars and space travel, then he got rich and transformed into a greedy asshole
[13:36] herman Bergson: The first to be killed in a revolution of the masses are the rich...a painful process but yet
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hij maakte de Hitlergroet
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: Yes, he did. Why?
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he didi it twice
[13:36] herman Bergson: Because he loves the German neonazi party
[13:37] herman Bergson: and financially even support it
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): once u get enogh money its like you change totally as a person. I call it the Scrooge McDuck syndrome
[13:37] herman Bergson: and other rightwing parties in Europe...like in Italy
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or just the Scrooge syndrome
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you just want more and more and more and......
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no end
[13:39] herman Bergson: But as I said...there is hope.... :-)
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's hard to see where that is now
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed true
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:40] herman Bergson: It seems you are saying something Max, but it doesn't appear in chat here
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): must be a tiny corner...
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje...that is what they want us to believe...
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: I'm thinking out loud. I think a lot of the technocrats may have been bullied as children, and feel entitled to revenge.
[13:42] herman Bergson: That is how I see the Musk behavior indeed, Max...
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that is one theory also
[13:42] herman Bergson: Finally he may say something too on the world stage instead of only promoting his cars
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): would you drive in his cars?
[13:44] herman Bergson: Being a successful businessman doesnt make him a visionary politician....as we already have learned by the way
[13:44] herman Bergson: I have no car, Beertje, and my drivers license is expired :-)
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it was a question to all of us
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: I'm not ready to trust a self-driving car.
[13:45] herman Bergson: There is already a "Tesla shamefulness "around :-)
[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes:))
[13:46] herman Bergson: To knock out this MUsk guy....don't by his cars...avoid Tesla
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): here in Sweden there is a massive boycott for over a year because he refuse to follow our laws about unions
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: Although my own driving skills are not entirely reliable either!
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he wants to do it the American way wherever he goes
[13:46] herman Bergson: Right Bejiita...that is the way
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: What do you mean "the American way", Bejiita?
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: No regulation?
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its in their names = Trump = angry, bitter and Musk = bad smell
[13:47] herman Bergson: No unions at all, Max
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Here in Sweden we have a law about Unions but Musk wants unions completely eradicated
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because of his greed
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: If you could get fair wages without unions, fine, but that doesn't seem to happen.
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hence there is an uproar against Tesla here
[13:49] herman Bergson: of course not, Max
[13:49] herman Bergson: By the way, in the rankings Sweden is the number One democracy in the world
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we call it the swedish model, the thing is if we let Musk do as he want then every other company would be free to do the same, it would completely topple the principle we stand by
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if one can then everyone can
[13:50] herman Bergson: right Bejiita...!
[13:50] herman Bergson: Show them....
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yeah
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sure electric cars is the future but there are other manufacturers out there
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then Tesla
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i don't think Musk and T will be friends for long..Musk jumps around the stage like a madman and mister T does not like it when someone steals the show
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :))
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): speaking of, Nicola Tesla is probably rotating in his grave like an electric generator at the moment over all these things happening in his name
[13:51] herman Bergson: I hope it works Bergie :-))
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all these scandals ect
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): true Bejiita
[13:52] bergfrau Apfelbaum: but who knows? maybe T told him to act weird
[13:52] herman Bergson: His beavior proofs Max's point....childish
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very childish
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: What bothered me was his reluctance to report failure in his self-driving cars. How can they fix it if they don't recognize problems?
[13:54] herman Bergson: His rockets explode too....
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the more the better:)
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Musks wish = dont repair but buy a new one!
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): with the same isues?
[13:55] herman Bergson: Are self-driving cars allowed on the road in the US, Max?
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like so many companies do for profit while the scrap heaps of waste grow bigger and bigger
[13:55] Max Chatnoir: It's hard to spot the reason that complicated objects go wrong.
[13:56] herman Bergson: Well..let's end our discussion hoping for e new lecture next Thursday :-))
[13:57] herman Bergson: Thank you all again :-)
[13:57] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you :)))
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: That's a good one! How do you encourage good behavior without violence?
[13:58] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman!
[13:58] herman Bergson: By rewarding it, Max
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