Tuesday, May 8, 2018

715: Phenomenology...

Today it will be a rather personal almost nostalgic lecture, because I have a special relationship with the subject.
The subject of today is Phenomenology and the 'inventor' of it: Edmund Husserl (1859 -1938)

46 years ago I had to do the exam, subject Phenomenology. That meant a two hour lasting questioning by the professor himself.
There were two problems to face. One, the examinator would be Professor R. Bakker himself, 
the author of the book, which we had to study, "de Geschiedenis van de Fenomenologie" (1969), that is, "The History of Phenomenology" 

and two, I really couldn't make sense of this kind of overly abstract metaphysics.
When I was 18, I read Kant, Fichte, Hegel, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and Sartre and you might think I would have no problem with German philosophy.
But during the first three years of my study, almost unaware, I had moved over completely to the empiricist, Anglo-American philosophy.
To solve the two problems I was helped by fortune. Professor Bakker fell ill and I immediately made an appointment with the teacher who took over his tasks
That teacher was a Kantian, a specialist in German idealism, who of course had knowledge of phenomenology,

but was not the author of that book. Thus I passed the exam easily and on a scale of 0 to 10 I even succeeded in achieving a 7.
I had to search all my bookshelves for the book, which I haven't opened in a 45 years. Behind me you see the cover of the book. 
The other picture is a page, which shows that I really studied the book of Prof Bakker seriously. Honestly....
And the third picture is the happiest moment in my philosophical life: the proof I passed the exam, which meant I could start my specialization in Analytical philosophy.
The big question is of course, why couldn't young herman and the actual one too, by the way, digest phenomenology?
I mentioned his name already. It all began with Edmund Husserl. In 1972 I participated in a series of tutorial sessions.
The subject was the reading and discussing of the book "Philosophie als strenge Wissenschaft" (1911), that is,  "Philosophy as real / strict science"
The next quote illustrates neatly how Husserl thought about his philosophy:
-QUOTE- Of course, we do not tie our critical analyzes to the more popular reflections of philosophizing natural scientists, 
but deal with the scholarly philosophy that appears in truly scientific armaments. 
In particular, however, with a method and discipline in which she believes she has finally reached the rank of an exact science. 
She is so sure in that, she looks down on any other philosophizing with contempt. -END QUOTE-
Next lecture I'll try to explain the ideas of Husserl to you. A fact is that he can be regarded as the founder of the continental School of philosophy,
a school with members like Heidegger, Sartre and Habermas and which is largely ignored in the Anglo-American world.
Thank you for your attention again.... ^_^

The Discussion

[13:18] Ciska Riverstone: thanx herman
[13:18] herman Bergson: Take your time to think it over ^_^
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): whispers..reading your book....
[13:19] CB Axel: So, phenomenology is philosophy as science?
[13:19] herman Bergson: If any chicken has a question or remark...plz feel free to drop the egg :-)
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:20] herman Bergson: That is what Husserl believed in yes
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): how can philosophy be a science?
[13:20] herman Bergson: he believed he  had developed a real scientific method ...something as strict as the methods in physics
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i remember years back right after I joined the class i heard in a lecture by aanother professor that philosophy IS a science
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i mentioneed it at tthe time
[13:21] herman Bergson: Depends on how you define science
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: good memory
[13:21] CB Axel: How does one do a double blind study of people's thoughts?
[13:21] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): before the advent of modern science, i think philosophy was the de facto standard for science.  now that we know more about the natural world and science, philosophy has been replaced
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and how you define philosophy too
[13:22] herman Bergson: I disagree there ashleigh....
[13:22] herman Bergson: the basics of any science is philosophical....
[13:23] herman Bergson: Philosophy is the fundamental wondering, Gemma....
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wen something is turned to science there is nothing to wonder about anymore on that subject and tjus not philosophy anymore
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thus
[13:23] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): philosophy was the analysis of things. life, the world, nature, whatever using the analytical mind and the tools of the time. but it also incorporated alot of assumptions.  used religion as a means to explain things that were not well understood.
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:23] herman Bergson: all sciences are based un assumptions about what reality is
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and what is science
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:24] herman Bergson: science is a calculated and reasoned belief system about reality
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): will be interesting to hear the next lecture
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): religion = uncertain /supernatural, philosophy = more certain and science = 100 % certain, at least almost
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a loose definition
[13:24] herman Bergson: That is the point Bejiita.....
[13:25] herman Bergson: the difference between religion and science is that science has a method to verify or falsicy its claims about reality
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): philosophy as i get it and you said before can not be 100 % certain
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like science is
[13:25] SarahWhitney: r
[13:25] herman Bergson: No...Philosophy is just the watchdog over it all :-)
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:26] CB Axel: So how can philosophy be a science? How do you verify its claims?
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we have been trying here for 10 years!!!!!
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and still not
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): 11
[13:26] herman Bergson: that is....we always have to stay critical and skeptic about every statement which is put forward with 100% certainty as being true
[13:26] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): right the scientific method is what differentiates religion from science and since philosophy does not require the scientific method and incorporates religious thinking in it, it is not science but only a basis for trying to analyze the world that has been surpassed by the scientific method
[13:27] Dien (djdien.bailey) is offline.
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): philosophy is sort of a middle-point between
[13:27] SarahWhitney: Perhaps not all things can be quantified and measured
[13:27] herman Bergson: Philosophy does not incorporate religion.....it observes it analyses it and so on
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it tries explaining things but nothing is 100% certain
[13:28] Rebecca (rebecca.rozen) is offline.
[13:28] herman Bergson: Philosophy is not a science....it is an attitude towards reality....the permanent questioning of things
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:29] herman Bergson: But of course that is my opinion :-)
[13:29] herman Bergson: That is how I see myself
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:30] SarahWhitney: I like that definition.
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its a good one
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in philosophy there must always be something to question
[13:30] herman Bergson: It is for free Sarah...you may take it with you...np :-)
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats the point of it
[13:31] SarahWhitney: How could someone possibly categorize philosophy as a science?
[13:31] herman Bergson: Well Husserl thought it could be done
[13:32] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): when i say it incorporates religion, i dont mean that religion is a tenet specifically of philosophy. but philosophy is a very basic means to come to an informed conclusion about the nature of something. about the nature of things. and since there is no method for qualification, any answer can be brought forward to explain the nature of something. religion is very often brought forward in philosophy for that purpose. since there is no critical check like the scientific method, a lot of the conclusions throughout the age of philosophical reasoning have included conclusions directly linked with religionand religious ideas.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Yet I think philosophy is primarily an attitude and the only tool you have is logic
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true ash
[13:33] herman Bergson: Ashleigh...there is a little sign here which explain outr rules of engagement...:-)
[13:34] herman Bergson: that is true....
[13:35] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): thank you.
[13:35] herman Bergson: A lot of philosophers were scared of religion, that is, th epower of Rome, so the introduced a god always....Descartes did for instance :-)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa that i remember
[13:36] herman Bergson: Spinoza put him out of action and thence was threatened....
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes poor fellow
[13:37] herman Bergson: And today it doesn't matter anymore....
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): not even in Islam countries?
[13:37] CB Axel: It does in parts of the US.
[13:38] herman Bergson: It shows in the separation of Church and state for instance
[13:38] CB Axel: What separation?
[13:38] CB Axel: There is separation in name only.
[13:38] herman Bergson: Oh yes...religion still exists....even religious fanatics...
[13:38] herman Bergson: To some extend indeed CB :-)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): religion and politics is always a bad combo
[13:38] CB Axel: I'd like to see an atheist get elected to anything in the US.
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hence the need to separate them
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): you would never know
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): they would carry a bible anyway
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and pretend
[13:39] herman Bergson: If a candidate dares to say he is an atheist he is finished in the US
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): politics should be based on facts and actual needs and not the bible or some other religious script
[13:40] herman Bergson: There may be a difference Bejiita....
[13:40] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): im waiting for the day when they dont need to carry a bible with them.
[13:40] herman Bergson: I have no problem with people who derive their motivations from religious beliefs
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i doubt we will see that
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some exaggerate their beliefs
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:41] SarahWhitney: I'm waiting for the day they don't act out of self-interest.
[13:41] herman Bergson: the US president swears on a bible.....
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:41] herman Bergson: so silly but it is done
[13:41] CB Axel: I don't mind that either, as long as they don't try to foist their beliefs onto me.
[13:41] CB Axel: Not all presidents use a bible.
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:41] herman Bergson: indeed CB
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: lol Gemma
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:42] SarahWhitney: lol Gemma
[13:42] herman Bergson: Also a telephone book perhaps CB?
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bible carrying liar!!!!!!!
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that doll actually makes me feel better
[13:43] SarahWhitney: I can understand that.............:)
[13:43] CB Axel: At least one or two swore on a law book.
[13:43] herman Bergson: WellAhh...makes sense
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): they really could use the constitution
[13:44] herman Bergson: they revealed to be atheists AFTER being elected....smart fellows
[13:44] SarahWhitney: Yes, like have to pass a test on it before holding elected office.
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good idea
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:45] herman Bergson: problenm ere is, Ashleigh that the test itself will be political itself in its content
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope i can make Tuesday to hear about phemonology
[13:45] herman Bergson: Oh you will hear about it Gemma :-))
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:46] CB Axel: The test should be a typical 8th grade civics test.
[13:46] herman Bergson: Final  conclusion of today is that I passed that exam in 1972 ^_^
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good on that
[13:46] CB Axel: Yay!
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:46] Quistis Hoorenbeek (quistis.shippe) is offline.
[13:46] SarahWhitney: :-)
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): next week i cant be here, gonna help clear out a house at a remote place with no internet connection
[13:46] herman Bergson: So thank you all again for your participation ...
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah
[13:46] CB Axel: If the original professor hadn't fallen ill, do you think you would have passed?
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): dont hurt yourself bejiita
[13:47] herman Bergson: Oh my...Bejiita....may the force be with you!
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe i hope so
[13:47] CB Axel: OMG! No internet?
[13:47] herman Bergson: I would have, CB...:-)))
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): are you sure Bejiita you can handle no intrnet?
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): good the blog is there to catch up on after im back
[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: stay strong
[13:47] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): agreed herman. what i meant to be clear was that ill be happy when a candidate can step into office without espousing a religion. whether they are religious or not, that the religious test is gone and people will make decisions using logic regardless of religious affiliation and the masses of people who vote agree that logical thinking i better than religious affiliation.
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Think of the religious problems of al smith and John kennedy
[13:48] herman Bergson: I agree ashleigh ^_^
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also likes logic
[13:48] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-)))
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok cu when im back
[13:49] herman Bergson: Thank you all again :-))
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: take care bejiita
[13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you herman and Class!
[13:49] SarahWhitney: tc Bejiita
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): welterusten Bejiita
[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: on
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:49] CB Axel: Bye, everyone. See you Tuesday and Bejiita on Thursday.
[13:49] herman Bergson: LOL
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :))))
[13:49] CB Axel: on
[13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: lol
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): cute1!!
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hwo do you star tthe dance??
[13:50] CB Axel: On
[13:50] CB Axel: /On
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): off
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): on
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): love it
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw !!!!!
[13:50] CB Axel: Ah. There I go.
[13:50] SarahWhitney: hahahahah
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha this was a fun thing
[13:50] herman Bergson: lol...what is happening here :-)
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no clue
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats something for you to philosophizing about
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fun tho
[13:50] herman Bergson: Must be the chickens...!
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:51] SarahWhitney: yes!
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ll
[13:51] CB Axel: Just your typical, every day philosophy flash mob.
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): off i go to run a fishing contest
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): on
[13:51] CB Axel: Bye, Gemma.
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa cu Gemma
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): got to run too
[13:51] CB Axel: Me, too. Work to do.
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Gemma:-)
[13:51] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): haha
[13:51] herman Bergson: LOL..never seen this in 10 years :-))
[13:51] CB Axel: Bye
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:52] SarahWhitney: That was cute.  :))
[13:52] herman Bergson: Well Ashleigh ...THIS is the Philosophy Class :-)
[13:52] SarahWhitney: Later, everyone......................bye
[13:52] herman Bergson: Bye Sarah
[13:52] ɑsɦℓєɨɢɦ (ashleigh.alderbury): thank you Herman. to be honest i've been here a few times before. its just been a while.
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): once it has to be the first time Herman:)
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: take care sarah
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): off
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone APPLAUDS!!!
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): smiles
[13:53] herman Bergson: I am sorry Ashleigh  I don't remember all names....
[13:53] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty Ciska:-)
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone:
[13:54] herman Bergson: phew...what a sensation in class..:-)
[13:54] herman Bergson: enchanting :-))
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): was leuk



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