Thursday, October 14, 2021

948: The Method...

 Thinking is not something you do at random. Sometimes it may be chaos in your head, but when you want to think about something specific

there is a pattern in your thoughts.


Homo sapiens began with recognizing patterns. He became aware of a past, present and future.


He discovered principles that underlie the patterns and he discovered that you can predict things deduced from these principles.


He learned to count and discovered logical principles that underlie his reasonings and argumentations.


With all these intellectual achievements we have arrived in the 16th - 17th century. Homo sapiens had already learned a lot and this moment in history opened new ways of learning.


There is always a basic conflict between theology and philosophy. Theology begins with answers and certainties and builds on it whatever theory about facts.


Philosophy always begins with questions and uncertainty and tries to find ways to discover answers, And such a new way emerged in that period in history.


What I learned since the previous lecture and of which I wasn't that aware of, is, that there were besides theology and philosophy 


two other subjects, that were at least as important at the universities: philology, the reconstruction of ancient texts and chronology, the science of arranging events in their order of occurrence in time..


In the previous lecture I mentioned how Joseph Justus Scaliger (1540 - 1609) by using the empirical cycle as a method discovered 


that according to biblical chronology the earth was created in 4004 BC, although the Egyptian Pharaohs already appeared in 5285 BC.


Of course, this leads to heated debates among scholars and one of the participants in this debate was Baruch Spinoza (1632 -1677).


In Spinoza, the destructive power of philology and the empirical cycle explodes: no text is absolute, not even the Bible. 


He takes the results of philologists and historians to the extreme, and then claims the right of the free use of reason, without interference from theologians. 


Spinoza knows how to use the historical-philological paradigm for a new, secular worldview, thereby giving an important impetus to the eighteenth-century enlightenment. 


In this context, Scaliger's discovery that world history conflicts with Biblical chronology gets a profound meaning. 


His discovery marks the beginning of a chain of far-reaching changes that lead to a worldview in which the Bible can no longer be taken seriously as a historical source. 


Where Scaliger didn't take a decisive step, he adapted his theory, Spinoza does it: he took the early Egyptian kings along with other historical actors 


from the special pre-creation time (Scaliger's idea) and simply adjusted the age of the earth. 


The empirical cycle was restored, and the way to a new view of the age of the Earth was open.


Philology's impressive discoveries gave philology such a high status that no scientist could ignore this field. 


For example, many icons of the Scientific Revolution, including Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo, were philologically trained. 


The empirical cycle of philological practice could therefore be transplanted almost directly from the humanities to the natural sciences.


Thank you for your attention again.....


MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rens Bod: "Een Wereld vol Patronen".  2019

The Discussion

[13:20] herman Bergson: If you have any remarks or questions...feel free...

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:21] herman Bergson: The research method used in physics is actually born in philology

[13:22] herman Bergson: A whole new approach of obtaining knowledge

[13:23] herman Bergson: Ok, it doesn't chock us anymore.....

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess not

[13:23] herman Bergson: but the Bible isn't an historically accurate book anymore

[13:23] herman Bergson: That was a dangerous point of view in those days

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nope

[13:24] oola Neruda: i see it as speaking in symbols much of the time.... "day" is a means of concept rather than hours

[13:24] oola Neruda: etc

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:24] oola Neruda: a way to talk to people without an education... wayyyy back then

[13:24] herman Bergson: And still there are people who take the bibler a real j accurate history book

[13:24] oola Neruda: true

[13:25] oola Neruda: artists speak in "code" as do poets

[13:25] herman Bergson: This is actually a peculiar phenomenon in the behavior of Homo sapiens

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true oola

[13:26] oola Neruda: scientists insist that an experiment be repeatable... before it is accepted

[13:26] herman Bergson: On the one hand we seem to have a scientific method of obtaining knowledge....and on the other hand homo sapiens is rationally capable of ...well...kind of ignoring that fact and create his own reality as truth

[13:27] herman Bergson: This dualism you see emerge in the 16-17th century

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like how 5G causes cancer and then proceed to saw all masts down

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or the antivaxers

[13:27] herman Bergson: For instance...or take Isaac Newton

[13:28] herman Bergson: That , you expect to be THE icon of physics....

[13:28] herman Bergson: he stuck to biblical chronology

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok

[13:29] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): Did Newton Believe in magic?

[13:29] herman Bergson: In those days began the debate about how to combine religion and science

[13:29] oola Neruda: his experiments could be repeated and give the same reuslts by another person

[13:29] herman Bergson: I don't know, but he used astrology if I am not Copernicus and Kepler

[13:30] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): ok

[13:30] herman Bergson smiles

[13:31] oola Neruda: he was also approaching different kinds of concepts

[13:31] herman Bergson: Guess we aren't the group of people that worry about this debate between science and religion :-)

[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i wonder if it was dangerous in those days to debate the bible

[13:31] herman Bergson: It was...

[13:32] oola Neruda: indeed

[13:32] herman Bergson: It has been that way up to Darwin....and today actually

[13:33] herman Bergson: Although today it is more dangerous to question the Quran :-))

[13:33] bergfrau Apfelbaum: in any case, science brings more than the "Bible"!

[13:33] oola Neruda: poetry is symbol.... observance like he did is repeatable and testable

[13:33] bergfrau Apfelbaum: for me ... :-)

[13:33] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): Is it 'dangerous' to question Darwinism now?

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:33] herman Bergson: I like paracetamol more than the bible too, Bergie :-)

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): paracetamol causes headache, the bible GIVES you a headache!

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cures i mean

[13:34] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): lol

[13:34] herman Bergson grins

[13:34] bergfrau Apfelbaum: halleluja

[13:34] herman Bergson: I wouldn't say that Bejiita :-))

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehee

[13:34] herman Bergson: But you read my mind :-))

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:35] herman Bergson: Besides ...paracetamol cures your headache....doesn't cause it I hope :-)

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that was a miss

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i need something that speeds my head op

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a bit slow now

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): took forever to come up with 3 simple variables for my halloween project

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Its not that complex.  basically its about some artists forgotten place with statues paintings ect and those that find this hidden place is for a creepy surprise as the art is possessed!

[13:37] herman Bergson: I already thought that it was that what you meant.....hindered by your headache just now:-)

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats the idea

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): made with the new Unreal 5

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i came up with the idea while in a breakdance windmill

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): my ideas always come from the craziest moments

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:38] herman Bergson: A bit off subject,, Bejiita :-)

[13:38] herman Bergson: so I guess we are done for today?

[13:38] oola Neruda: the questions of scientists are "physical"... the emphasis of the Bible is more abstract... behavior ... and how to live

[13:39] herman Bergson: That is questionable oola

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and there my computer got tired ofme!

[13:39] oola Neruda: I see you r point

[13:39] herman Bergson: That makes me think of a serious debate about value-free science....does it exist?

[13:39] oola Neruda: still... there are apples and oranges....

[13:39] herman Bergson: and bananas :-)

[13:39] oola Neruda: nods

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YUM

[13:40] oola Neruda: the questions each ask are different from each other.... in the end

[13:40] herman Bergson: Let's not start a debate on values in science....a complex subject....

[13:41] herman Bergson: I don't know....some people read hard facts in biblical texts.....with "scientific" consequences

[13:41] oola Neruda: despite the age of the earth

[13:41] oola Neruda: yes...

[13:41] herman Bergson: There is no evolution for instance...according to the biblical "facts"

[13:42] oola Neruda: again... speaking as the poet

[13:42] herman Bergson: let's stick to philosophy here :-))

[13:42] herman Bergson: I guess we saved the world today again a little more :-)

[13:42] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): Thank you Herman

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:43] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): I shall make sure

[13:43] Nicholas Derwent (nicholasderwent): I come again

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa

[13:43] herman Bergson: So, time to put our brains to rest, unless you have that final question :-)

[13:43] oola Neruda: God is a symbol for the unanswered questions...

[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: was interesting again! thank you Herman and class

[13:43] herman Bergson: You are always welcome, Nicolas

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess so oola

[13:43] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-)

[13:44] herman Bergson: I disagree with you oola

[13:44] oola Neruda: help me understand

[13:45] herman Bergson: "I don't know" is the symbol for unanswered questions

[13:45] herman Bergson: God is such a heavy loaded cultural concept....the one who KNOWS all the answers...

[13:46] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hmm maybe a "?"

[13:46] herman Bergson: To me that is the wrong connotation

[13:46] herman Bergson: Right Bergie

[13:46] herman Bergson: Simple and clear

[13:46] herman Bergson: ?

[13:46] oola Neruda: but people insisted on answers... and in cases like death... and violence... etc... many needed to make sence of them... or find comfort

[13:46] bergfrau Apfelbaum: everyone should believe in what helps them. but it has to be free and happen within your own four walls. Refugees can then live in the church. and restart

[13:47] oola Neruda: good point, Bergfrau

[13:47] herman Bergson: that last point is find comfort......that is what people seek in matters of uncertainty

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:48] oola Neruda: and justice

[13:48] Lukkie Sands: A nice and interesting discussion today again...

No comments:

Post a Comment