Thursday, November 11, 2021

954: The Meaning of Science...

 While the humanities flourished as never before in the early modern period between 1300 and 1400, the situation in fifteenth-century astronomy looks very different. They are almost two different worlds in Europe. 


The fifteenth century was the century of humanism, and the humanists left the study of nature largely untouched. 


It was only in the course of the sixteenth century that astronomers adopted the empirical cycle from the humanists, especially because they were themselves philologically trained. 


The fifteenth century was a flourishing period where one discovery after another was made, such as perspective in painting, 


the empirical cycle, texts of ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, the 12 intervals in the octave, so not in the natural sciences but in the humanities. 


This paved the way for the rise of the natural sciences in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. 


The question that preoccupies me more, however, is, what kind of scientists were they, those brilliant scholars of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries?


I mean this: when we think of a scientist, what is the first image that comes to mind? For me, it's complicated-looking labs, people in white coats who are constantly doing experiments, 


or people who collect lots of data and perform complex statistical calculations on them. What drives them? 


Answers to questions and hypotheses regarding their field of research, in which they are specialists and the goal is knowledge and more knowledge in their field of research. 


Did scientists in the fifteenth century also have such a view of their work? What were they looking for? What was the purpose of their knowledge? 


I think they looked completely different at their world than the scientist of today. How shall I describe it? Their study and knowledge were related to their service to God. Everything at that time was dominated by church and religion. 


Mathematics and philology were used to calculate the day the earth was created. God is the creator of the universe and man has always believed 


that the movements of the heavenly bodies communicate something on behalf of the creator.


 In this way, we come across a man like Regiomontanus (1436 - 1476). Another clever mind, improving Ptolemy's astronomical ideas, 


setting up new tables and rules for planetary calculations, and we might be inclined to think of someone like Stephen Hawkins, 


the astronomer who died in 2018, but Regiomontanus' astronomical perspective was quite different. 


He was most innovative in astrology, where he designed an explicit system for calculating astrological houses. 


A house is an area of ​​the celestial vault within which a planet operates astrologically. 


Regiomontanus divided the equator into twelve equal parts and drew auxiliary circles through the found partial points. 


The intersections of these auxiliary circles with the ecliptic form the positions of the houses. 


Together with the astronomical tables and the astrological handbooks, such as Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos, Regiomontanus was able to make more refined astrological predictions. 


As is known, this form of knowledge disappears from the domain of science in the course of the new era.


The presence and disappearance of this kind of knowledge show us in what direction thinking and knowledge of Homo sapiens developed.


Thank you for your attention again.....

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rens Bod: "Een Wereld vol Patronen".  2019

The Discussion

[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why did this knowledge disappear?

[13:18] herman Bergson: Any idea what route knowledge took?

[13:19] oola Neruda: Persian researches were not the same as "Western" ones

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i have never heard of astrological houses

[13:19] oola Neruda: nor Oriental

[13:19] herman Bergson: was in fact most interested in himself in those days and his relation with the spiritual world, or god(s)

[13:20] Dien (djdien.bailey) is offline.

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the horoscope is the closest i mostly get to astrology that i read in the paper, funny enough it often matches

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so i have a bit of faith in it

[13:20] herman Bergson: A moment Bejiita...I'll get to that

[13:21] herman Bergson: Why did astrology disappear from the realm of science....

[13:22] herman Bergson: My belief is that man tied to understand himself in the beginning by trying to understand his god....

[13:22] herman Bergson: and his future....

[13:22] herman Bergson: and with the arrival of real astronomy the focus shifted

[13:23] herman Bergson: man got more interested in understanding nature and he began to see himself more as a part of nature

[13:23] FrannyDJ Dean is offline.

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sounds like a logical theory

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and then we started exploring space, went to the moon ect

[13:23] herman Bergson: and so he lost his belief in the possibility to tell the future

[13:23] oola Neruda: Albrecht Durer is a visual clue to the changing interests

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and concluded that there is no man on clouds up there

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just well space

[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes oola....that's a beginning of that development...

[13:24] oola Neruda: his depiction of nature changed things from the previous styles

[13:24] herman Bergson: it started in the Renaissance

[13:25] herman Bergson: it still will take  a 200 years before man begins to see himself as a machine....

[13:25] herman Bergson: and another 200 years to see himself as a product of random evolution

[13:25] oola Neruda: before that... artists set up rocks etc. in their studio as the _Model" for aspects of the landscape

[13:25] oola Neruda: did not work al fresco

[13:26] herman Bergson: Back to Bejiita and houses....

[13:26] herman Bergson: You don't read about them in the horoscope column of your newspaper...

[13:27] herman Bergson: but the houses are drawn in the horoscope wheel

[13:27] herman Bergson: I'll show you next time a drawing of a horoscope...

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess there is some connection, all i see is the text, never gave a thought into how they are actually made

[13:28] herman Bergson: there are also horoscope drawings by ...I think ....Copernicus

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the basics is i know that depending on the stars position and when u are born certain things will happen

[13:29] herman Bergson: not only that....

[13:29] herman Bergson: You take the date and time of birth of a person and use these to calculate a horsocope...

[13:30] herman Bergson: it is a drawing,,,,, a cicle divided like a pie in 12 parts...those a re the houses....

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like sectors?

[13:30] herman Bergson: and at the moment of birth the planets are in a certain position

[13:32] herman Bergson: The cicle is divides in equal parts of 30 degrees,,,,each 30 degrees belog to a different astrological sign...Aries, Taurus, Cancer, Lion , Sagitarius etc

[13:32] theo Velde is offline.

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm this somewhat seems familiar'

[13:32] herman Bergson: and the drawing you get is interpreted as the character of the person

[13:33] herman Bergson: So when your Sun is in Gemini at your time of birth it is said that you like communications

[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what about the moon?

[13:33] herman Bergson: So your horoscope tells you ewho you are ^_^

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:34] herman Bergson: The moon is the symbol for feeling, belonging to the sign Cancer/Kreeft

[13:34] herman Bergson: So they say for instance....

[13:35] herman Bergson: when you have the  moon in your first house you show easily your emotions and feelings

[13:35] herman Bergson: When in Capricorn  however, you tend to block and hide your feelings :-)

[13:36] herman Bergson: Each house stands for an aspect of your personality

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i saw in a horror game before somethink called wheel of Thanatos that is using these things

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): is that a real thing

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or just for the game

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): u turned it in certain position  depending on birth date and such and it gave info

[13:37] herman Bergson: That wheel you mention isn't an astrological item

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cant find info on google though so must just be a game item

[13:38] herman Bergson:

[13:38] herman Bergson: check this...might give some information on the subject

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed thats not what i looked for

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but something lime this

[13:39] herman Bergson: but it isn't part of astrology

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this is the game review, the wheel is descriped past halfway of the video

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): quite advanced thing

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but based on horoscope and astrology stuff no doubt

[13:40] herman Bergson: Might be...

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): funny thing is like everyone in that game im also cancer so it could have been describing me as well

[13:41] herman Bergson: But today astrology is regarded as pseudo science....amusement

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something to put in the papers now and then and wich probably is just using an app or preprogrammed random algorithm with no reference to stars or whatsoever to blurt out something to put in the papers

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like lucky cookies

[13:42] herman Bergson: But in the Rebnaissance they firmly believed that you could use it for divination...

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:42] herman Bergson: that is why astronomers works in royal courts...

[13:42] oola Neruda: no... they follow the "recipe" of planet predictions today

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i hope they actually do because as said before, oftehn what iread often matches very often

[13:43] herman Bergson: Tycho Brahe was such an astronomer

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said i have some fith in ti at least because ofthat

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): faith

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes

[13:43] oola Neruda: ambiguity

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:44] herman Bergson: I have done a lot of research on astrology in the past

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well it seems like reaching a bit into your area for sure

[13:45] herman Bergson: Have even quite a lot of books on the subject

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Nice!

[13:46] herman Bergson: it is no science and yet people believe in I wanted to know....does it work or is it fake

[13:46] oola Neruda: anbiguity counts

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm same thinking i have about these matching horoscopes of mine

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): is it just coincidence or?

[13:46] herman Bergson: indeed

[13:48] herman Bergson: the coming lectures we'll learn what was the role of astrology and how it disappeared....

[13:49] herman Bergson: So...thatnk you all again

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki

[13:49] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...

[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman, very interesting as usual:)

[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class for the interesting, star hour :-)

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