Tuesday, November 23, 2021

957: Let the Sun shine.....

 Don't ask me for an exact mathematical explanation, because math is not my forte, but maybe I can show you a little of the ingenuity of Homo sapiens.


Sometimes planets move backward and that seems to contradict Plato's thesis, that all celestial bodies move in perfect circles around the earth.


What had Ptolemaeus thought? Ok, that star doesn't move backward. That appears only to be the case. It rotates in a small circle, which rotates around the earth in a larger circle.


And seen from the center, therefore, it sometimes looks like it moves backward, The diagram behind me shows you how this would look like.


Copernicus (1473 -1543) designed a mathematical model of the universe that placed the sun in the middle instead of the earth.


As we all know, Rome didn't like that idea. Tycho Brahe (1546 -1601) had another idea, that as we say, saved the cabbage and the goat.


True, the planets turn around the sun, but that whole bunch turns around the earth. And this was supported by mathematical calculations.


Then came Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642) an outspoken supporter of the heliocentric viewpoint. He built his own telescope and saw a lot of new things in the universe.


His little book about his observations "Siderius Nuncius" (1610 ) made him famous all over Europe, and Rome was not amused, as we know.


He was 68 when he was placed under house arrest and banned from ever publishing anything again.


It should be noted that Galileo does not seem to have applied an empirical cycle in his astronomical work, whereas Kepler did. 


While Galileo's impressive observations strongly challenged geocentric assumptions about the cosmos and supported the Copernican system,


Galileo did not test the Copernican system's predictions against planetary positions. It could be argued that Galileo's aim was merely to reject the geocentric worldview, which does not require an empirical cycle. 


Galileo mainly wanted to show that the Earth moved, and was, therefore, less interested in calculating the precise, quantitative consequences of the Copernican model. 


Kepler, on the other hand, wanted to find out the divine plan for the cosmos, which he believed was accessible to human reason.


Kepler thus had theological motivations and strived for the greatest possible accuracy in calculating planetary positions, for which an empirical cycle was indispensable. 


Moreover, Galileo came from a different scientific tradition than Kepler. While Galileo had grown up with the music-scientific experiments and string laws of his father Vincenzo Galilei, where the patterns can be generated, 


Kepler had a background mainly in philology, where the patterns in the available manuscripts, just as in the astronomical phenomena cannot be evoked but can only be observed. 


Galileo was thus familiar with the empirical cycle in the experimental science of musicology, while Kepler was familiar with the same cycle in the non-experimental science of philology. 


In other words, Galileo didn't use the empirical cycle in astronomy because he couldn't generate new patterns there. 


What he could do was link the observed patterns to an underlying theory, namely his theory of the heliocentric system with the moving Earth. 


Thus we see that two different starting points respectively disciplines with manipulable patterns versus disciplines with non-manipulable patterns. , can lead to two different ways of working.


Kepler had theological motives and motivations for his astronomical zeal, but what motivated Galileo anyway? Pure scientific integrity or did he hate the Jesuits, who followed Brahe's model?


Thank you for your attention again....

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rens Bod: "Een Wereld vol Patronen".  2019

The Discussion

[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I can imagine that Galileo hated the Jesuits:)

[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he was a brilliant man

[13:21] herman Bergson: Possible

[13:21] herman Bergson: In Keppler you still see the link between theology, astrology and astronomy....

[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): which Rome loved I guess

[13:22] herman Bergson: Not with Galilei

[13:22] herman Bergson: His views were accepted, be it that only few people really knew them

[13:23] herman Bergson: That was different with Galillei....his observations and Siderius Nuncius made him a real popular guy

[13:23] herman Bergson: and thus a threat to those who are in power

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but to give them house arrest

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wasn't that too much ?

[13:24] herman Bergson: I don't know the details of his life

[13:25] herman Bergson: Maybe he had a big mouth :-))

[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):

[13:25] bergfrau Apfelbaum: or star eyes

[13:25] oola Neruda: do you know where he lived

[13:25] herman Bergson: Well...matter is that Urbanus VIII became pore in 1630 or so and he was a freind of Galilei

[13:26] herman Bergson: He allowed him to publish about the heliocentric viewpoint

[13:26] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Italia, florence

[13:26] oola Neruda: thank you

[13:27] herman Bergson: Galilei wrote a book..il Dialogo in which two people discussed the Ptolemaean and Copernican views...

[13:27] herman Bergson: The Ptolemaean speaker was named Simplicio....

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he was allowed to publish his book, but did the church accept his view?

[13:27] herman Bergson: Well the choice of name is already telling

[13:28] herman Bergson: That book pissed off Urbanus, because it seemed to have been clear that this Simplicio character resembled Urbanus

[13:28] herman Bergson: I guess Galilei made no friends there ^_^

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :))

[13:29] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Simplicio sounds like a good red wine:-) Simplicio Rosso

[13:29] bergfrau Apfelbaum: cheers

[13:29] herman Bergson: Maybe there even exists such a wine Bergie

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why is the church so hard on science?

[13:30] herman Bergson: It does indeed ^_^

[13:31] herman Bergson: Interesting question....

[[13:31] oola Neruda: many take the word of the Bible literally

[13:31] herman Bergson: I guess because it interferes with their mind control of the masses

[13:31] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i admire these gentlemen, what they already knew and found out without a computer!!! does the computer make humanity dumber?

[13:32] oola Neruda: and the masses need it simple when they are not literate

[13:32] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie....it really is amazing

[13:32] oola Neruda: that is why Biblia Pauperum were "picture books" for adults

[13:32] oola Neruda: not literate

[13:32] herman Bergson: and the window in the churches....religious comic books

[13:33] oola Neruda: yrd

[13:33] oola Neruda: yes

[13:33] herman Bergson: But why wants a religion control the masses?

[13:33] herman Bergson: The more you think about it the weirder it looks

[13:33] oola Neruda: because they will all die... fear............. because they do not ge along... etc.

[13:34] herman Bergson: Maybe there is a biological reason

[13:34] oola Neruda: it is a way to give "law" into the control of the individual who is willing to behave

[13:34] herman Bergson: Every social animal has a social order in the group

[13:35] herman Bergson: even chickens....

[13:35] herman Bergson: for some reason there is one animal that wants to be at the top....

[13:35] oola Neruda: lol... remembering the chickens who were top chicks

[13:35] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i think a lot of people like to have an advisor to help them manage their life

[13:35] oola Neruda: farm girl

[13:35] herman Bergson: the reason?

[13:35] herman Bergson: Food....

[13:36] herman Bergson: Maximum chance on survival

[13:36] herman Bergson: the best females  to mate with

[13:36] herman Bergson: That is deeply embedded in nature

[13:36] oola Neruda: i was thinking more along the like of having to face a judge one way or another for one's behavior ....

[13:37] herman Bergson: and we, the naked apes, have the same drives, but because of culture even more sofisticated

[13:37] oola Neruda: gie them reasons to behave... or else

[[13:37] bergfrau Apfelbaum: and the females are also looking for strong boys for their offspring

[13:37] herman Bergson: indeed Bergie ^_^

[13:38] herman Bergson: and for us humans...we have discovered private property....the accumulation of wealth and the power that comes along with it

[13:39] oola Neruda: a way to comfort people re: death... or make them behave because of hell

[13:39] oola Neruda: the question was... why the church was protecting itself re: science

[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: the accumulation of wealth ..... omg! i immediately think of my attic

[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: in rl

[13:40] herman Bergson: Because science contradicts beliefs of the church and thus affect its power

[13:40] oola Neruda: yes

[13:41] herman Bergson: It is weird how many people like to have power over others

[13:41] herman Bergson: in family life, in politics..name it

[13:42] herman Bergson: hello Medusa :-)

[13:42] Medussa Reddevil: hello, all :)

[13:42] herman Bergson: and Ian :-)

[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: science can put facts on the table, the church only holy water from the parish brook :-)

[13:42] Ian Newt: Hello :)

[13:42] oola Neruda: hello...

[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hello

[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hi :-) Medusa and Ian

[13:43] Medussa Reddevil: :)

[13:43] herman Bergson: We are a bit at the end of our discussion, gentle new visitors:-)

[13:43] herman Bergson: Nevertheless welcome

[13:44] herman Bergson: But if you have questions feel free to ask :_)

[13:44] Medussa Reddevil: We thought so, but we wanted to hear a bit at least. Sorry to interrupt

[13:44] Medussa Reddevil: Sure, thank you

[13:45] herman Bergson: Copernicus, Brahe, Keppler and Galilei were the subjects I presented today

[13:45] herman Bergson: And we were more or less discussing their motivation for their scientific work

[13:46] herman Bergson: For Keppler it was clear....they were theological

[13:47] herman Bergson: He produced more than 900 pages of calculations just to get the exact positions of stars and planets

[13:47] herman Bergson: Just to learn god's plan of the universe

[13:47] herman Bergson: Funny thing is...he believed that god thought in mathematics :-)

[13:48] herman Bergson: Galilei's position is somewhat unclear....

[13:48] herman Bergson: was  he a big mouth...maybe a bit vain?

[13:48] herman Bergson: AT least he made no friends under thos in power :-)

[13:50] herman Bergson: The present project deals with patterns and principles as the basic elements of scientific thought and its development

[13:51] herman Bergson: And since the gods are above us in the sky homo sapiens began to study the celestial patterns

[13:51] herman Bergson: and the development we see is that the link between gods and astronomy gets lost through time

[13:52] herman Bergson: That is where we are now with the project

[13:52] herman Bergson: and at the discovery of the empirical cycle...

[13:53] herman Bergson: the basis for scientific research

[13:54] herman Bergson: Well...that's it for today...unless you still have that one special question :-))

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:54] herman Bergson: Thank you all again....

[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-)

[13:55] Medussa Reddevil: Thank you Herman :)

[13:55] herman Bergson: Bergie crashed?

[13:55] oola Neruda: thank you... be well all

[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bergie crashed

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