It is about 1700 in Europe. Unrest in Europe due to the reformation and religious wars. Governmental power was questioned and looked for justification.
It is the time that arose an increasing interest in the justification of power based on and deduced from the natural rights of the individual.
You may remember Thomas Hobbes, who claimed that the natural state of humans was one of each is a wolfs for his fellowmen.
That is what we learned from his 1651 book Leviathan. The political problem John Locke inherited from Thomas Hobbes was
to produce a theory of natural rights that would not preclude the possibility of entering peacefully into civil association.
The problem, as it was portrayed by Hobbes, is that he grounds political existence on an uncompromising theory of natural right.
Every individual has a natural right to whatever he or she conceives to be useful in assuring his or her preservation. There are no moral limits to what one’s rights will justify.
Therefore civil association cannot come about without invoking the coercive power of absolute sovereign authority.
The problem with that, Locke insisted, is that absolute political authority transforms citizens into slaves.
The most widely accepted interpretation of Locke’s political philosophy today takes him to have responded to the challenge of Hobbes's philosophy by re-invoking the pre-Hobbesian natural law tradition.
In its broadest outlines, Locke's natural law theory is that man is able to use his reason to verify that God exists as our creator
and that we, living under his authority and infinite power, are obligated to do what is right according to reason.
This leads to a serious question. It is simply assumed that we have right as human beings. But what does that mean: a right?
Let's assume that we have passive and active rights. To have a passive right is to have a right to be given or allowed something by someone else,
while to have an active right is to have the right to do something oneself. As example, I am entitled to a salary and I have the right to cross the street.
The distinction between the two is not always as clear as it might be, as there is at least one common theory about rights the implication of which is that all rights have at any rate a 'passive' component.
This theory is that all rights entail and are entailed by duties on other people to secure the possessor of the right that which he has a right to.
Thus my"active" right to walk about the street correlates necessarily with a duty imposed on other people to allow me to do so,
and thus to have a right to walk about the street is simply to have a right to be allowed to walk about when I want to do so. Any active right can thus be re-phrased as a passive right of this kind.
If any right can be completely expressed as a more or less complex set of duties on other people towards the possessor of the right,
and those duties can in turn be explained in terms of some higher-order moral principle, then the point of a separate language of rights seems to have been lost and with it the explanatory or justificatory force possessed by references to rights.
In other words, the whole debate about natural rights would become a debate about (moral) duties we have towards each other.
Don't expect me to clarify this problem here and now. The only thing I want you to become aware of is, that the word "NATURAL RIGHT" is easily used,
but that it is quite some question what the word means, refers to.
Thank you for your attention....
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
The Discussion
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:17] herman Bergson: This all may sound a bit complex to you
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:17] herman Bergson: But the point is....what does the word "natural right " mean
[13:17] oola Neruda whispers: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you
[13:17] herman Bergson: is it something special that exists on its own
[13:18] herman Bergson: or is it another word for duties of others towards us and visa versa
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it sounded complex but that traffic crossing thing cleared it up
[13:18] herman Bergson: yes oola....
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed oola
[13:19] herman Bergson: the right to hear the truths means actually...the duty of the other not to lie
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hm
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): some forget that easily
[13:19] herman Bergson: I can give you a hint....
[13:20] herman Bergson: although you have this (moral) duty......
[13:20] herman Bergson: you could say...ok, but I still have the liberty to ignore it
[13:20] herman Bergson: and that does not make my right disappear
[13:21] herman Bergson: I hear your brainds grind all this...
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes:)
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmmm
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): grinding like your telex machine GRRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWIIIIIII
[13:22] herman Bergson: but just think of what RIGHTS you have....and what that means
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but i think im with u
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and indeed
[13:23] herman Bergson: You sa ...I have the right to live
[13:23] oola Neruda: laws?
[13:23] herman Bergson: yes oola
[13:23] herman Bergson: what does the right to live mean?
[13:23] herman Bergson: That others have the duty, obligation not to kill you
[13:24] herman Bergson: Or is it a logical consequence of your existence
[13:24] herman Bergson: What does that right mean when you live alone on an island, for instance
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm interesting idea
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): do you have the right to leave life too?
[13:25] herman Bergson: Do you have rights when you live alone on that island....does that make sense?
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): dont be mean to visitors?
[13:25] oola Neruda: duty to the environment
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if there are any coming by
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes don't pour poison around u
[13:26] oola Neruda: so you do not perish by destroying it
[13:26] herman Bergson: that would mean that the environment has rights oola
[13:26] herman Bergson: which is a current belief today
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well u sound not destroy ecosystems right, plus the place would look like crap afterwards
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and that u might not want to live in
[13:27] oola Neruda: or even be able to live in
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but do we have the right to leave life?
[13:27] herman Bergson: I find this pretty difficult issues myself :-)
[13:27] herman Bergson: Interesting point Beertje!
[13:28] herman Bergson: Are we entitled to our own death?
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): are we?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Euthanasia....?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Difficult one Beertje
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): do I have the freedom to go?
[13:29] oola Neruda: it implies giving up responsibility we have to others...
[13:29] herman Bergson: I have a friend....she will become 101 in a few days....
[13:29] herman Bergson: for years she already praises the day that she won't wake up...
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:30] herman Bergson: but every morning she still has to open her eyes
[13:30] bergfrau Apfelbaum: wow 101
[13:31] herman Bergson: She is not complaining about it....just asking for the meaning of her next day after so many years
[13:31] herman Bergson: That meaning is so hard to find for her
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): my mother in law is now more than 102...she is so tired
[13:31] herman Bergson: But she is not entitled to her own death...she has to wait for it
[13:32] herman Bergson: what is a right of nature here?
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): she can't go either
[13:33] herman Bergson: Such difficult questions, these cases
[13:34] herman Bergson: In the 18th century the debate on natural rights was a hot item....
[13:34] bergfrau Apfelbaum: but you have euthanasia in the netherlands.... if i don't want to live anymore, i come! it is my decision. my life
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what profit so yu have from freedom is you can't go at 102?
[13:34] herman Bergson: How can we live our freedom to enjoy our rights
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:35] herman Bergson: That is not how it works here Bergie...
[13:35] herman Bergson: There has to be evidence of unbearable pain and suffering
[13:36] herman Bergson: otherwise no euthanasia
[13:36] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Yes, i am assuming a serious illness. if i'm healthy i don't want to die
[13:37] herman Bergson: when you are 101 you may have other thoughts about that Bergie
[13:37] bergfrau Apfelbaum: in Austria there is no euthanasia... no matter how sick you are
[13:38] herman Bergson: I call that cruelty
[13:38] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes
[13:38] herman Bergson: here again...what are your rights and who decides what are your rights?
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: the rights make the laws
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: no?
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Well not Putin or Mr T for sure!
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont) is online.
[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: wbBeertje
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im free im happy and should stay so
[13:40] herman Bergson: Werlcome back Beertje ^_^
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wb Beertje
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): dankjewel
[13:40] herman Bergson: oola...keep your eye on the clock! :-)
[13:40] oola Neruda: am
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :)t
[13:41] herman Bergson smiles
[13:41] herman Bergson: ok
[13:41] oola Neruda: pushing the limits
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:41] herman Bergson: Well. I guess we pushed the limits here today already, oola :-)
[13:41] oola Neruda: be well all
[13:41] oola Neruda: poof
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hugs oola
[13:41] herman Bergson: time to give our brains some rest
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:42] herman Bergson: She had an appointment :-)
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you Herman and class
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): did I miss a lot?
[13:42] herman Bergson: So...take a brain pause and I'll see you next Thursday
[13:43] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
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