Let's begin with tackling, maybe, the most difficult philosophical problem, that you can think of the Mind - Body problem. We have already covered quite a distance and come to the conclusion,
that the main assumption of materialism / physicalism is that every phenomenon in this world can be explained by the natural laws of physics and by the other sciences, like chemistry, biology, and so on.
This leads to the conclusion, that homo sapiens also should be explainable by the standards of modern science. Medicines have already proven that our body responds perfectly to all kinds of pills.
But what to do with our thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Can we explain those too using all knowledge and insights of science? That means, are there material descriptions and explanations for these features of homo sapiens?
The first headache already comes with the term "explanation". That we find neurophysiological correlates of all kinds of brain activity with emotions, feelings, sensory input, etc can hardly be understood as an explanation of these phenomena.
Then there is the second problem, which I already referred to in an earlier lecture: we assume that man is like nature in that he consists of the same materials that are studied by physics and natural science.
This should lead to a complete account of what a homo sapiens is, but the term "materialism" isn't tenable anymore for modern physics has shown that there is more than just matter. The line between matter, energy, and force is anything but sharp.
This changed the term "materialism" into "physicalism". The word"physicalism" seems more flexible. It merely suggests that man, whatever he is, can be described adequately with terms and concepts used by the science of physics.
Sounds good but here comes the bummer. We all will assert that we have a mind. It is really something: I think so I am Descartes already concluded. He made it easy for himself by postulating that the mind is a substance on its own.
No empirical proof for that, but whatever. It explains the situation. What explanation would a physicalist suggest? Where and how do we find a physical explanation for mental terms?
Several answers are possible. The first is the answer, which I chose to graduate in philosophy in 1977. My starting point was the essay "The 'Mental' and the 'Physical'" first appeared in 1958.
Herbert Feigl (1902 - 1988) was a prominent philosopher who developed a theory of mind-body identity in the mid-20th century.
His mind-body theory was a type of physicalism, which holds that mental states are identical to physical states in the brain.
According to Feigl, mental states are not separate entities from physical states, but rather they are identical to them. He argued that mental states can be reduced to physical states in the brain and that there is a one-to-one correlation between them.
I must confess that I have to study some more on Feigl's ideas, now that I am revisiting his ideas. What I find in the literature is not exactly, what is stored in my memory.
What is meant by a one-to-one correlation between between the mental and the physical is, that statements concerning the experience of pain can be explained by the firing of certain neurons in the brain having the same denotation.
I mean, when you talk about a piece of rock and a stone, the two words have the same denotation: that material object in your hand, like I said in the previous lecture:
the statement "dopamine and oxytocin are measured in the blood of person X" has the same denotation as the statement of person X "I am in love", namely his physical constitution at that moment.
I have to look deeper into this issue. I always regarded it as a semantical issue. Well, I'll keep you informed. I have to look more into this matter.
Thank you for your attention....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Maybe the article of Gemma is a great help
[13:26] herman Bergson: The main point here is that statement A (about mental states) and statement B (about physical states) have the same denotation
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not sure but adds to the issue
[13:26] herman Bergson: I'll defenitey have a look at it....
[13:27] herman Bergson: But most of the time, when you see such announcements in the press, it is more air than substance
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it looks like science is definitely making progress in discovering the physical and mental working together
[13:27] herman Bergson: A mind body nexus.....
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i guess its like with a computer that the mental stuff alanogous to data is caused by physical states of the brain just like with the physical state of a CPU, transistors changing state and in the brain chemical signals fore between neurons to create the mind
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats hwo i imagine it works sort of
[13:28] herman Bergson: Just listen to what you say Gemma!!!!!
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:28] herman Bergson: the physical and mental working together
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:28] herman Bergson: That implies two entities
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bad idea i guess
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the mental part is the data and the physical part is like the transistors/neoruns changing state
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): neurons
[13:29] herman Bergson: it implies that the mental has some kind of existence next to the physical
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that;s how i imagine it works
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not materialistic
[13:29] herman Bergson: indeed
[13:30] herman Bergson: But....!
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but
[13:30] herman Bergson: Take for instance the concept of SPEED or VELOCITY
[13:30] herman Bergson: We can say that VELOCITY exists...we can observe it...
[13:31] herman Bergson: but for it to exist you need other objects...a stationary one and a moving one
[13:31] herman Bergson: so, ontologically, velocity exists in the sense that it is the relation between two objects
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): pure physics
[13:32] herman Bergson: so....
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): these are properties
[13:32] herman Bergson: when you have the brain.....
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): of physics
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): values that can be measured
[13:32] herman Bergson: billions of neurons and synapses and electricity moving through it.....
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and in case of a computer stored in variables in program code for use later
[13:33] herman Bergson: cou;dn't we apply the same ontological reasoning here too?
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly Herman
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): maybe?
[13:33] herman Bergson: if you talk about a mental state and its existence....
[13:34] herman Bergson: doesn't it mean the (electrical) relation between two neurons, to put is in a simple way?
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something like that
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: do we dare drag dreams into this?
[13:34] herman Bergson: this would lead to the conclusion that what we call the MIND is as real as what we call VELOCITY
[13:34] herman Bergson: Makes no difference Gemma
[13:35] Anuska (anuska.loon) is offline.
[13:35] herman Bergson: Maybe we solved the Mind Body Problem here
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: body sleeping mind active?
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well dreams are the CPU let loose on its own with all stored data but there has to be some kind of "software" that controls this dream state or?
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): dreams are a bit special stuff
[13:35] herman Bergson: What we call thoughts , feelings emotions, are not "things", entities
[13:36] herman Bergson: they are realtions based on the material configuration of a brain at a given moment
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they mix stuff we have experienced during the day with totally random and crazy stuff that seems just generated
[13:36] herman Bergson: relations between neurons
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like tonight i actually had a dream i hanged out with all these Dance guys from Sunday at some weird place, was like a space station or sci fi city
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): everyone was there
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: second life interference
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): can we influence these neurons?
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lucid dreams
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i can do it sometimes
[13:37] herman Bergson: Of course Beertje...you do that all day long...
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but it depends, oi cant do it on demand
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: yes we do
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: why am i whispering
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:38] herman Bergson: all sensory inut influences your neurons....what you see, what you smell (your dogL0( etc
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because shift should be ctrl and the other way around
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no more onions for lunch
[13:39] herman Bergson: You are whispering because you must be impressed by my brilliant reasoning today Gemma :-))))
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ahha
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): oh dear
[13:39] herman Bergson: No, but seriously......
[13:39] herman Bergson: velocity exists....
[13:40] herman Bergson: exitence here means a relation between material objects
[13:40] herman Bergson: thoughts exist
[13:40] herman Bergson: which then means a relation between material objects, that is neurons in the brain
[13:41] herman Bergson: what is wrong with this logic???
[13:41] herman Bergson: it explains the emergence of the mind
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): back to hormones
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): chemistry + electricity makes the mind work
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sounds good
[13:42] herman Bergson: hormones are physical substances in the brain that affect the transmission between neurons and synapses
[13:42] herman Bergson: which leads to behavior
[13:43] herman Bergson: Well...this line of thinking is the invention of the day.....
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:43] herman Bergson: maybe the article supports it Gemma
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well it wont hurt
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and also it makes it comparable with the CPU in a computer. The old term "electron brain" is not far of even if computers actually are stupid and cant think for themselves and they also cant experience feelings or consciousness
[13:45] herman Bergson: How can I put htis reasoning put to a test.....
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but still
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and also we are analog and computers digital
[13:45] herman Bergson: I don't write atricles for philosophy magazines....
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but both run on electricity
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well maybe you should try that
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in some way
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and get some discussion going
[13:46] herman Bergson: yes Gemma....
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:46] herman Bergson: Maybe I could write a response to that article...a comment....
[13:47] herman Bergson: who knows.
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe you should do that
[13:47] herman Bergson: But to honest....
[13:48] herman Bergson: today I formulated an interpretation for the existence of mental states within a physicalistic ontology
[13:48] herman Bergson: But you know....my main adagium is...
[13:48] herman Bergson: when I can think of something....someone else already did :-)
[13:49] herman Bergson: so...is this the case here?
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): someone else thinks different
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true beertje
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:50] herman Bergson: But just imagine....
[13:50] herman Bergson: In fact I answered the ontological question about the existence of mental states...
[13:50] herman Bergson: they are as real as velocity is real
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well, you think you did
[13:51] herman Bergson: looks like it...
[13:51] herman Bergson: I don;rt know
[13:51] herman Bergson: I mean...can the answer be that simple?
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): rethinking thesis
[13:52] herman Bergson: I really have to rethink this Gemma L0(
[13:52] herman Bergson: :-)
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): questions can be complicated, answers can be simple
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats true I guess indeed
[13:53] herman Bergson: I reallywould like to find a way to put this reasoning to the test
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): other wise there would be very few philosophers in the world , past and present
[13:54] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma..it would make me very lonely ^_^
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or unique
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah
[13:54] herman Bergson: oh dear...
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:55] herman Bergson: That would make me end up in a museum, stuffed and all
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahahha
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Herman the fossil
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wonders what Tuesday will bring
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): naaa philosophy will be around always
[13:55] herman Bergson: No....I really have tot think about these ideas of today
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:56] herman Bergson: MeToo Gemma :-))
[13:56] herman Bergson: So, thank you for this philosophical inspiration.....
[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again ㋡
[13:57] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some more to think about
[13:57] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope to be here Tuesday
[13:57] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye all
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): have good weekend
[13:57] herman Bergson: Ok Gemma...thnx for the article
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ill check that
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/scientists-identify-mind-body-nexus-human-brain-2023-04-19/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=Daily-Briefing&utm_term=042023
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