How to continue our quest? As a first pass, physicalism is the doctrine that there is nothing over and above the physical. Much recent philosophical work has been devoted to spelling out what this means in more rigorous terms and to assessing the case for the view.
Nothing over and above the physical. Particles are physical, but we also have to be able to deal with entities that are irreducible to physical entities in some important sense,
provided they depend on and are determined by physical entities in the right way. You could think of gravitational fields, maybe magnetism, and of course mental states.
I finished my academic studies with the Mind-Body Identity theory. That was in the late 1970s. In 1977 my detailed study of this subject came to a halt as I got a job as an educator.
The professional philosophers continued, however, their work. The Identity Theory was of course not the end station. In other words, now I run into completely new approaches to the theme of materialism.
One thing we already have learned. We don't call it materialism anymore. To be in tune with the modern and current views we speak of physicalism: nothing over and above the physical.
And now I have to study what has been developed by professional academic philosophers in the past 45 years. Well, they must have had enough time to come up with clear answers to our questions.
I can tell you, that is not the case. Some of the literature I read, I hardly understand. Especially analytical philosophers love to be as abstract as possible occasionally. Besides that, I run into new ideas that were produced in these past 45 years.
I have to learn a new concept in relation to physicalism: "Supervenience" and the verb "to supervene". The real philosophical interest in the term began in 1982 and the following years.
In that period I was completely absorbed by information technology, database design, and computers. So I never noticed the new developments in the philosophy of mind.
The use of the term is strictly philosophical and thus has its specific philosophical meaning. Let's see what the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy says:
A set of properties A supervenes upon another set B just in case no two things can differ with respect to A-properties without also differing with respect to their B-properties. In slogan form, “There cannot be an A-difference without a B-difference”. --END QUOTE--
Supervenience is a central notion in analytic philosophy. It has been invoked in almost every corner of the field. For example, it has been claimed that aesthetic, moral, and mental properties supervene upon physical properties.
It has also been claimed that modal truths (this is possible or necessary truths) supervene on non-modal ones and that general truths supervene on particular truths.
I am still dealing with the question: what offers this idea of supervenience? What does it mean that A supervenes B, that the mental state supervenes the physical state?
What kind of relation is there between A and B. Do we have to understand it as a causal relation? And in what sense does this supervening have an explanatory function regarding the relation between the physical and the mental?
At the moment I am working my way through the literature in search of answers and I hope I can find them. That you will discover soon .......
Thank you for your attention....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
The Discussion
[13:12] herman Bergson: To be honest.....
[13:12] herman Bergson: I still have no clue what to do with this new term :-)
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I take it as to mean sort of tightly coupled, i cant change one without change the other
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if i get it right
[13:13] herman Bergson: I mean...what kind of relation is it
[13:13] herman Bergson: That is right Bejiita
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but indeed
[13:14] herman Bergson: But what new fact does it tell us....?
[13:14] herman Bergson: Mental states supervene brain states
[13:15] herman Bergson: I am still studying on the question.....what does that mean, what does it tell me about the relation between mental and physical states
[13:15] herman Bergson: Neuroscience tells me more
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): tries to find an analogy hmm i get the concept
[13:16] herman Bergson: But philosophers are writing complex articles about the term....
[13:16] oola Neruda: I can't help but wonder if natural reflexes aren't part of this mix
[13:17] herman Bergson: yes I think so, oola
[13:17] herman Bergson: So...you have to be patient....
[13:18] Bree Birke is offline.
[13:18] herman Bergson: Thursday I'll know more
[13:18] oola Neruda: it does look like a real quagmire
[13:18] herman Bergson: But what I am reading atm doesn't give me much hope.....
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in programming terms i see it like the opposite of overriding a so called superclass (the class that the current class inherited from) in that every change u do in the class will also change the superclass and not be an independent (overridden) change for that class. If u are not familiar with object oriented programming this analogy is a bit tricky to grasp however
[13:19] oola Neruda: can we harken back to one cell entities
[13:19] herman Bergson: quagmire? What is that oola ?? :-)
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just the closest analogy for me
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said tightly coupled vs independent
[13:19] oola Neruda: something hard to get through ... like a swamp
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i need to look this up more
[13:19] herman Bergson: Yes that is correct Bejiita
[13:20] herman Bergson: Well...a swamp it is ^_^
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i plunged into a swamp when out turfing yesterday with my friend. got mud all over me
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): FLUMP
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:20] oola Neruda: think of a single celled life form...
[13:20] herman Bergson: The fact that you have a specific term does not yet imply that it has a clear reference to something that exists
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess thats true
[13:21] oola Neruda: what would the basic moves or whatever sign of life there is in a single celled thing
[13:21] herman Bergson: I have the word Martian....I can discuss the meaning of the word...
[13:21] herman Bergson: But that does not imply that there exists something like a Martian
[13:22] herman Bergson: And this term supervenience gives me the same feelings
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a definition of something that might or might not exist
[13:22] herman Bergson: It is not used outside philosophical debates
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:23] herman Bergson: We know there is a relation between the brain and our thoughts and feelings
[13:23] herman Bergson: But we still have no clue what kind of relation
[13:23] oola Neruda: what makes a single cell entity work
[13:24] herman Bergson: So we come up with a new term....supervenience relation :-)
[13:24] herman Bergson: We dont know, I'd say oola
[13:24] herman Bergson: LIFE
[13:25] herman Bergson: What is the difference between animated and unanimated entities?
[13:25] herman Bergson: To say that the animated ones live, doesn't explain how this is possible
[13:26] herman Bergson: we know THAT a cell lives, we even know the cause and the processes
[13:26] oola Neruda: somehow, i cannot help but think of chemistry
[13:26] herman Bergson: yes of course
[13:27] herman Bergson: all kinds of chemical processes are active in a cell
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:27] herman Bergson: chemical
[13:27] herman Bergson: but what starts the engine?
[13:27] oola Neruda: exactly
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:28] herman Bergson: Because we could reproduce all these elements, but yet we can not create life from unanimated matter
[13:29] herman Bergson: fascinating questions :-)
[13:29] herman Bergson: especially because we have no answers
[13:29] oola Neruda: reactions to nerves/touch... is a start
[13:30] herman Bergson: Well....I'd better leave you pondering about these questions for a while :-)
[13:31] herman Bergson: So, let me dismiss class :-)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:31] oola Neruda: this is a really hard one
[13:31] CONNIE Eichel is online.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Yes oola....we walk along the borders of our knowable world
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmmm true
[13:32] oola Neruda: nods...
[13:32] oola Neruda: i cannot help but think that chemistry fits in there somewhere
[13:33] herman Bergson: It isn't suprising that through history sought refuge in religions and ideologies
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true oola
[13:33] herman Bergson: It does oola
[13:33] herman Bergson: Our brain is one big chemical factory :-)[13:34] oola Neruda: also the "last man standing"... in various "experiments"
[13:34] herman Bergson: And we put pills in our body to influence its chemistry
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): many processes in life are chemical, like hormones, also moving your muscles is done chemically, a substance called ATP and Acetylcoline
[13:34] oola Neruda: exactly
[13:35] herman Bergson: what we already know about that chemistry is amazing
[13:35] oola Neruda: whatever did not perish... whatever came out alive
[13:35] herman Bergson: it brought us Big Farma for instance :-)
[13:36] herman Bergson: Anyway....thank you all again :-)
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