Was the Hegelian dialectics something completely new in human thinking? No, not at all. In fact, it is interesting to see how the human mind works and has worked for centuries.
Homo Sapiens became a self-conscious being and began to think and we may all take it for granted, but it isn't. He brought structure to his way of thinking. That is fascinating.
Of course, it was the Ancient Greeks who did it. In classical philosophy, dialectic (διαλεκτική) is a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses).
As you see, these were the terms Hegel also used for his philosophical method.
The outcome of such a dialectic might be the refutation of a relevant proposition, or of a synthesis, or a combination of the opposing assertions, or a qualitative improvement of the dialogue.
The term "dialectic" owes much of its prestige to its role in the philosophies of Socrates and Plato, in the Greek Classical period (5th to 4th centuries BC).
Aristotle said that the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of Elea invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are examples of the Socratic dialectical method.
The Middle Ages were fascinating too regarding the way Homo Sapiens thought about how you should think properly. Just compare this to the public discourse of today...
Just look at the following procedure. This is how debates were held in the Medieval universities:
This dialectic (a quaestio disputata) was formed as follows:
1 The question to be determined ("It is asked whether...");
2 A provisory answer to the question ("And it seems that...");
3 The principal arguments in favor of the provisory answer;
4 An argument against the provisory answer, traditionally a single argument from authority ("On the contrary...");
5 The determination of the question after weighing the evidence ("I answer that...");
6 The replies to each of the initial objections. ("To the first, to the second, etc., I answer that...")
Just imagine that our politicians had the discipline to use this procedure in their public debates :-)
But whatever, The concept of dialectics was given new life at the start of the 19th century by Hegel, whose dialectical model of nature and history made dialectics a fundamental aspect of his idea about reality.
As I told you in the previous lecture Hegelian philosophy was the tophit of its days around 1880. But before continuing with Marx I have to introduce to you his closest friend: Friedrich Engels (28 November 1820 – 5 August 1895).
He was a German philosopher, political theorist, historian, journalist, and revolutionary socialist. He was also a businessman and as I said, Karl Marx's closest friend and collaborator.
In cooperation with his friend Engels Marx retooled this abstract Hegelian dialectics. Marx proposed that the most effective solution to the problems caused by contradiction,
this relation between thesis and antithesis was to address the contradiction and then rearrange the systems of social organization that are the root of the problem.
And that is where it became scary, it was this idea of rearranging the systems of social organization because this was another way to tell those in power: prepare for a revolution.
Thank you for your attention again....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
The Discussion
[13:18] herman Bergson: What you should recall from the previous lecture is that Marx didn't think of dialectics of abstract concepts like Hegel did....he meant it very materialistic.....relations between social entities, classes.
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: and also economics?
[13:19] herman Bergson: Right, Max
[13:19] herman Bergson: But economics were the product of human action and activity
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: Yes.
[13:20] herman Bergson: so what people did was quintessential to him, how they created social relations and so on
[13:21] herman Bergson: His focus was of course on economics
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:22] herman Bergson: So maybe next time we could have a look at his ideas about economics....
[13:22] herman Bergson: It still seems to scare people....being called a Marxist still isn't a compliment :-)
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed not
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:22] CONNIE Eichel smiles
[13:23] herman Bergson: But I still wonder if this is right
[13:23] herman Bergson: Marx's ideas about social relationships in labor and productivity weren't that weird....
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Well, that is just a pejorative. It isn't an argument.
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: being called a Marxist.
[13:24] herman Bergson: True Max....but it works
[13:24] herman Bergson: I was reading the Communist Manifesto lately....
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: Yes it does, but serious argument might get us further.
[13:25] herman Bergson: And I was surprised to read how Marx and engels already drew a clear picture of the globalization of productivity...and how that was a problem
[13:26] herman Bergson: Marx already describes the negative effects of free markets
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Im more marxist then randist for sure
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed its a big issue
[13:27] herman Bergson: Present day economists begin to see the negative effects too
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least when going out of control, chaing infinite growth, the stock market chaos ect
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): everyone wanting more and more
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes, a peculiar phenomenon in the behavior of homo sapiens :-)
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): never gets satisfied
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: And the difference between rich and poor getting bigger and bigger.
[13:29] herman Bergson: My idea is that existential fear and greed go hand in hand
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Oh i have 10 lambos for 10 million each but i need 2 more + 1 mansion!
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): pffffffffs!
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like that
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its the status thing i guess
[13:30] herman Bergson: :ike hoarding is an existential matter for some people....it is the extreme version of translating the fear into the safety of possessions
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: I think the fear is losing control if you start to share power.
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): your last costume has no pockets, you can't take anyting on your last journey
[13:32] herman Bergson: Maybe true Beertje, but what to do while you are still alive....find safety...and control is a form of personal safety
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: Sharing power includes sharing ideas about how to do things. That might be useful.
[13:33] herman Bergson: We try to reach this through upholding democracy as our political system
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: Yes.
[13:34] herman Bergson: The problem with communism, the real form, was that it ignored basic aspects of human nature, I guess
[13:34] herman Bergson: Like communes didn't work eventually....
[13:35] herman Bergson: homo sapiens has big trouble with absolute equality
[13:35] herman Bergson: By the way...like almost all social animals
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: I think the problem is in dealing with large communities. Primates do better with small communities.
[13:35] herman Bergson: and even chickens....:-)
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: But small communities tend to turn into tribes and fight.
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): might be
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no idea how it works but
[13:36] herman Bergson: or cults, Max :-)
[13:36] herman Bergson: as we see these days.......
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: We need a better way of making large-scale decisions than killing off whoever disagrees with us.
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes3
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true true
[13:37] herman Bergson: I think it was Churchill who said that democracy was the best of all bad systems of government
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: Yes, because if you just had off all decision making to some overlord, you're going to be starving for ideas.
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: hand off...
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: Democracy is messy, but it's better than authoritarianism.
[13:39] herman Bergson: I fully agree, Max :-)
[13:39] herman Bergson: But when money can buy politicians we still have a problem
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:39] Max Chatnoir: Even the constitutional US started off with a sort of agreed upon ruling class -- white male property owners.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then its all out of control
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bribing and shit
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: Yes, lobbyist should be outlawed.
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: I think.
[13:41] herman Bergson: Well...we still have a lot of thinking to do about these matters
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: Yes.
[13:42] herman Bergson: Maybe it could be instructive to look some more into the economic theories of Marx and how they compare to the capitalist ones of today
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sounds like an idea
[13:42] CONNIE Eichel: good to be here, but I should go now... hugs everyone, see you next time :)
[13:42] herman Bergson: I am still convinced that moderne economist still can learn from Marx's ideas
[13:43] herman Bergson: Was nice to have you here CONNIE
[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Conny:-)
[13:43] CONNIE Eichel: really nice i could join, have a good night everyone :)
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye bye
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: Did Connie get the message of no PC Thursday?
[13:43] Lukkie Sands: See you, Connie
[13:43] CONNIE Eichel: yes, im in the group, Max :)
[13:43] CONNIE Eichel: kisses!!!
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: Good.
[13:43] CONNIE Eichel: :)
[13:44] herman Bergson: yay
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: OK, Herman, have a very calming week!
[13:44] herman Bergson: ok
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:44] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for attending the lecture :-)
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: And I'll see you all next Tuesday.
[13:44] herman Bergson: Yes Max
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:44] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Thanks for the information and thank all of you for the conversation.
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