Why are Marxism and Communism seen as a threat and are the words "marxist" and "communists" such popular swear words in politics.
One simple explanation is: these terms scare people and one of the best tricks in politics is to instill fear of "the others" in your electorate.
A second feature that is very helpful politically is, that Marxism and Communism are clearly associated with revolution
and in particular with the loss of property and a redistribution of wealth in a way that a lot of people don't like to see happening.
Those Commies want to share everything equallly, no private property, no inequality, and if you try to deviate from that.... oh dear....
It is true that Marxism and Communism are closely associated with revolution, anti-democratic suppression of the people, arresting and even killing dissidents.
On the other hand when in 1989 the Berlin Wall fell and and the Eastern Bloc fell apart, the Western World took the attitude of....I told you it wouldn't work, ...ha ha....your own fault....and so on.
It was the rise of neo-liberalism in the Western World: Greed is good! This very morning there was an article in my newspaper.
In a few weeks we'll have elections in the Netherlands and a number of political parties already promote themselves
with the thesis that we should get rid of the free market economics and return to public services in public transportation, healthcare, housing, and the like.
So, what to do with Marx? How should we interpret his contribution to understanding society and its history? Is he to blame for the fact that his name gives some people shivers?
What did Marx really have to offer? The most important idea, maybe, is that only labour creates value. The next question is: who profits from this labour? To answer this question Marx developed a special interpretation of the history of mankind.
We already defined it as historical materialism. Marx saw a kind of teleological development in the history of mankind. And at every stage of this development man created a kind of theoretical superstructure to explain and justify his material situation, which was the life of a worker.
We started our project to explain why materialism as an ontology, or as we call it now, physicalism makes sense. From that perspective I have come to the conclusion, that the ideas of Marx weren't so revolutionary or special at all.
His ideas were a product of the times he lived in and in that sense he was right. The material world we live in and create, is also the source of our ideas and beliefs about that world.
I'll explain the process: Homo Sapiens presents at a given moment in history an interpretation of reality and uses it as a justification for your actions. We'll get to it later, but it is like the stages of development Marx saw.
Described in terms of materialist ontology, you could say that the human brain, based on its primary motivations like the drive of survival, safety, the need for food, the will to reproduce, avoidance of pain, and the pursuit of pleasure, invents a story to realize and justify all that.
This story, which Marx called the superstructure (I am not sure if this is the word used in English for it) we call culture and in a more specific sense: religion. It is simply a product of human creativity and phantasy,
but it offers everything we psychologically and morally need: explanation and justification, a meaning of life, a perspective, (false) security. Thus life goes on.
And what is the contribution of Karl Marx to all this? In fact nothing new, but he put the spotlight on the fact, that labour creates wealth, but not for everyone. We'll talk about the historical context next time.
But the claim that it is labour, that creates the wealth on this earth isn't new at all. It is in fact even biblical: Genesis 3:19.
"By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return." If you ever have read a better explanation of materialism, let me know.
Thank you for your attention ......
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
The Discussion
[14:19] herman Bergson: You are stunned or fell asleep :-))???
[14:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Stunned...
[14:20] Max Chatnoir: I haven't thought much about social structure in the Bible, but it must have been written by somebody who COULD write and was therefore probably not part of the working class. So is Genesis justifying that labor?
[14:21] herman Bergson: Difficult question....:-)
[14:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): this person did he have sweat on his face?
[14:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think not
[14:21] herman Bergson: I just was wondering, Beertje :-)
[14:22] Max Chatnoir: Doesn't seem likely.
[14:22] herman Bergson: But maybe we should recall what we talked about last Tuesday....the relation between use-value and exchange value
[14:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's easy to tell the working class what to do
[14:23] herman Bergson: The writer could have been a book seller .
[14:23] herman Bergson: Which gave his work an exchange value
[14:23] herman Bergson: Differentaition of labour....
[14:24] herman Bergson: I am not sure how he would fit into Marx's point of view.
[14:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[14:25] herman Bergson: Marx saw only two classes: bourgeoisie and proletariat
[14:25] herman Bergson: No idea what class that writer would belong to :-)
[14:26] Max Chatnoir: Well, it had to fit into the "will of God" or something.
[14:26] herman Bergson: But the meaning of the Genesis quotation only shows that we are all matter :-)
[14:28] Max Chatnoir: Well, and Jesus at some point suggests that rich people might divest themselves of a lot of their wealth. I'm not sure that he also suggested what they should be doing instead.
[14:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): matter in the form of dust?
[14:28] herman Bergson: Yes, dust :-)
[14:29] Max Chatnoir: Wasn't that where Adam came from in the creation story?
[14:29] herman Bergson: This Jesus wasn't in favor of the rich, I think
[14:30] herman Bergson: More a kind of sharing guy, feeding the hungry, dress the poor.....
[14:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[14:31] herman Bergson: Yes Max, Adam came from the clay :-)
[14:32] herman Bergson: In fact this Jesus was a kind of socialist avant la lettre :-)
[14:32] Max Chatnoir: Jesus was a bit of a revolutionary himself.
[14:32] herman Bergson: right....
[14:33] herman Bergson: But people that call themselves Christians like to interpret it a little different :-)
[14:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[14:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm ok well
[14:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[14:33] Max Chatnoir: So where is the break between the proletariat and the bourgeosie?
[14:34] herman Bergson: that is a relation between oppressors and exploited people.
[14:34] herman Bergson: The only value a worker has to offer is his ability to work
[14:34] Max Chatnoir: What does that word come from? Proletariat?
[14:35] herman Bergson: The oppressors are those who possess all means of production
[14:35] herman Bergson: the factories etc
[14:36] herman Bergson: The word is derived from the Latin word "proletarius"
[14:36] herman Bergson: IIt was the name of the poor in Rome in the 2nd century
[14:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa ok
[14:37] herman Bergson: The people that didn't possess anything else but their life
[14:37] Max Chatnoir: Not property owners, then.
[14:37] herman Bergson: right
[14:37] herman Bergson: they only had their work force....
[14:38] herman Bergson: And that was exploited by the bourgeoisie
[14:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): nothing changed
[14:38] herman Bergson: Well, if you look at the times Marx lived in in england.....
[14:39] herman Bergson: Soon we can watch again "A Christmas Carol"and meet Scrooge :-)
[14:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaaa yes
[14:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[14:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed the factories using their workers for nothing
[14:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): more or less slave labor
[14:39] herman Bergson: I don't agree with you Beertje, that nothing has changed....
[14:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): till they dies often
[14:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): died
[14:40] Max Chatnoir: So where does the aristocracy fit in? They're not part of the bourgeoisie, are they?
[14:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was not fun being a factory worker at those times
[14:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why Herman?
[14:40] herman Bergson: That happened indeed Bejiita, and child labour for instance
[14:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[14:40] herman Bergson: They are Max
[14:41] herman Bergson: In sofar they havent been killed in the revolution or disowned
[14:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lot of awful stuff, no safety features on machines ect. People getting crushed like in Stephen Kings film The Mangler
[14:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the manager just laughing "OH DAMN! WELL BRING IN ANOTHER ONE!"
[14:42] Max Chatnoir: Well, even recently, people were stingy about letting workers get water in hot weather.
[14:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[14:42] herman Bergson: In Western Countries child labour is forbidden, workers have united in unions ...things like that
[14:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[14:43] herman Bergson: Even voters standing in line ...you were not allowed to give them water in the US
[14:43] Max Chatnoir: Some people in the US have been arguing for reduction of the working age.
[14:43] Max Chatnoir: To allow younger workers.
[14:43] Max Chatnoir: I'm sorry, I can't remember who.
[14:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however now Tesla have shown they dont want unions ect anywhere and everyone in Sweden working at Tesla are now on strike, U dont mess with the Swedish model
[14:43] herman Bergson: yes, I heard something like that too Max
[14:44] herman Bergson: `Something has changed Beertje :-)
[14:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i noticed:)
[14:44] herman Bergson: Maybe not enough...
[14:45] herman Bergson: And that is maybe that scary part of Marxism.....
[14:45] herman Bergson: since it is not enough we have to change it by force...
[14:46] herman Bergson: To get a glimpse of that you should read the introduction and chapter one of the Communist Manifesto (1848)
[14:47] herman Bergson: There an thereafter you see how the ideas were converted in a religion or at least a similar dogmatism as you find in religions
[14:48] herman Bergson: And history has shown, that this religion didn't hold, like in Western Europe christian religion is in decline
[14:48] Max Chatnoir: And somehow there got to be oligarchs.
[14:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[14:49] herman Bergson: Well Max, the communist countries did accept more or less the capitalist organisation of their society
[14:49] herman Bergson: So you get the rich that exploit the poor
[14:50] Max Chatnoir: Yes, somebody was saying on the news recently that democracy doesn't always accompany capitalism
[14:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed not
[14:50] herman Bergson: No no...two different systems....
[14:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): democracy for the rich maybe but not the others, the opressed ones, the masses
[14:50] herman Bergson: Capitalism is just a way of organizing the economy
[14:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the ones getting uses
[14:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): used
[14:51] herman Bergson: Democracy is a way to organize society...
[14:51] herman Bergson: to give everybody a say in how the economy should be organized
[14:51] herman Bergson: and there is the big tension these days
[14:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[14:52] herman Bergson: who has the power.....those on top of democracy....the voters and lawmakers, or the people on top of the economy, the wich and wealthy people
[14:53] herman Bergson: In the US the rich buy their politicians for instance
[14:53] Max Chatnoir: I don't understand why we allow that.
[14:54] Max Chatnoir: Or why the SC classified it as "free speech."
[14:54] herman Bergson: In the Netherlands it is forbidden as a company to donate more than 100.000 euro to a political party and its campaign
[14:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is SC Max?
[14:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its same reason US don't like unions, so they can use people and take all their money
[14:54] Max Chatnoir: Sorry, Supreme Court of the US
[14:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ultracapitalism
[14:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you
[14:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why everyone in Sweden is mad at Elon Musk and Tesla now
[14:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and going on strike
[14:55] herman Bergson: They allow it in the US because the rich buy the politicians that make the laws....
[14:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its crazy how u can even be allowed to do a such thing
[14:55] herman Bergson: and they won't make laws that deprive them from profitable donations
[14:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its like in russia almost, bribes bribes bribes and corruption
[14:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders again)
[14:56] herman Bergson: no Bejiita....
[14:56] Max Chatnoir: True, but they should be reasonable.
[14:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok maybe not exactly like in russia but its bad
[14:57] herman Bergson: I agree Max....but you need a lantern to find rationality in at least half of Congress :-))
[14:57] Max Chatnoir: I can't believe that they don't understand it. They just want to go on profiting from it.
[14:58] herman Bergson: Indeed Max, but also because it coincides with their political points of view....
[14:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): profit is all that matters it seems in the end
[14:58] herman Bergson: Like their 5 decades of figthing Roe vs. Wade.....
[14:59] Max Chatnoir: Well, it ought to be illegal to bribe congress people and the court people, too.
[14:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[14:59] herman Bergson: It is not called bribes, it is called donations :-)
[14:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): PFFFFFS!
[15:00] herman Bergson: Well, guess we covered a lot of terrain again today :-)
[15:00] herman Bergson: Time to cool down and relax :-))
[15:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[15:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess so
[15:00] herman Bergson: So, thank you all again.....
[15:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): good discussion:)
[15:01] herman Bergson: Thank you, Beertje :-)
[15:01] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman and everybody else.
[15:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): gerne:)
[15:01] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[15:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): graag gedaan
[15:01] herman Bergson: and enjoy the weekend :-)
[15:01] herman Bergson: No homework this time :-))
[15:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay
[15:01] Max Chatnoir: ;-)
[15:02] herman Bergson: Although....it is fun to read the introduction of the Communist Manifest, written by Marx and Engels
[15:02] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[15:03] herman Bergson: Important is that you should keep in mind the social and economical position of the lowers classes and the enormous political unrest all over Europe among the poor.
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