I am not convinced that morality needs to get its weight from above. Can’t it come from within? This would certainly work for compassion, but perhaps also for our sense of fairness.
In a previous project, I already showed you this short video clip...take a minute to watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo
As you see the Capucin will happily perform a task for cucumber slices until they see others getting grapes, which taste so much better.
The cucumber eaters become agitated, throw down their veggies, and go on strike. A perfectly fine food has become unpalatable as a result of seeing a companion get something better.
Frans de Waal labeled it inequity aversion, a topic since investigated in other animals, including dogs. A dog will repeatedly perform a trick without rewards but refuse as soon as another dog gets pieces of sausage for the same trick.
When you see the reaction of this Capucin, you tend to think: wait a minute, this seems like human behavior. How can a monkey behave too in a way, that it seems to understand unfairness in rewards?
Maybe we have to conclude that we as a species have some unique qualities, admitted, but from a general point of view, we are not that unique at all under primates.
Many philosophers, however, use a specific line of reasoning regarding moral truths. Even if they don’t invoke God, they’re still proposing a top-down process in which we formulate the principles and then impose them on human conduct.
The question we have to answer here is: is our morality deduced from "higher" principles or commandments, or does it come from within like we observe in other primates.
Concerning morality we run into the big question: when we have discovered these "higher" principles, then explain where they come from.
From a physicalist point of view, we simply conclude that it has been our brain or if you like our mind that has figured out how social behavior functions
and from there philosophers constructed all kinds of top-down theories to explain and justify moral behavior.
But the real trick was to disconnect these principles from the real source, our mind, and thinking, and put them in the mind of some transcendent being.
And then homo sapiens projected parental care on this being and thus we became "the"children of god". A lot of people feel comforted by this idea and believe that they have a father in heaven.
This is an effective and multi-purpose product of our reason, but we started out as social animals with moral sentiments and intuitions, which is also where we find the greatest continuity with other primates.
Rather than having developed morality from scratch through rational reflection, we received a huge push in the rear from our background as social animals.
Thank you for your attention again....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - Th Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
The Discussion
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe in earlier days is it a matter of surviving, to behave
[13:20] herman Bergson: I know, little to question here :-)
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): otherwise you were send away from the group
[13:20] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje....,simple as that I guess
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think so too
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and a loner couln't survive at his own
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): mothers mostly
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some things are unique to us and other things we inherit
[13:22] herman Bergson: no Bejiita...we didn't inherit these features....we SHARE them wit other primates
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): agree
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or to say it in OOP terms (object Oriented Programming) We are a subclass of the primate base class. We have all or most of their general behaviors but then we add some of our own to the human subclass
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that is unique to only us
[13:23] herman Bergson: true...we have some unique characteristics
[13:24] herman Bergson: but the quintessential issue here is...where does morality come from
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): how high up in the class tree does it belong
[13:24] herman Bergson: And as a physicalist philosopher I want to show you that it is part of nature...
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): where does it begin
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sort of3
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): primates have morality also i guess in some way, however maybee not like us
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): idk
[13:25] herman Bergson: No...animals have no morality
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a dog can feel ashamed
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it knows it has done wrong
[13:26] herman Bergson: the don't ponder about the good or bad of their acyions...they respond simply to their individual needs
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed , that they dont do i think
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yrue Bejiita...have seen that too :-)
[13:27] herman Bergson: but that is a response to a negative reaction, not a moral sentiment
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wheh they have made a total mess of the kitchen
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:28] herman Bergson: Have your fun on Youtube with that indeed
[13:29] herman Bergson: What interests me more is the fact that homo sapiens wants to be a "child of god"
[13:29] herman Bergson: Wants the parent - child relation...
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): doens't want the reponsibility of his actions
[13:30] herman Bergson: that is the point,,Beertje!
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): sorry for my english:)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this is not programming, i get u, even if i make analogies to that
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:31] herman Bergson: Nice Dutch english, by the way Beertje...no excuses needed
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its interesting stuff this,
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol, thank you
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm was nothing wring with that sentnece
[13:32] herman Bergson: no
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's easier staying a child
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): your english is better than you think beertje
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :))
[13:33] herman Bergson: ok...so far....morality seems to come from within because we are social animals
[13:34] herman Bergson: Leaves us with the funny question...why are social animals?
[13:35] herman Bergson: I guess that is the equivalent question to a stone...why are you a stone :-))
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is always that question
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think morality comes from fear....to survive we need food...and that's easier to get in a group
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think it comes from mothers need to control children
[13:36] herman Bergson: Survival indeed Beertje
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and expands to the group
[13:36] herman Bergson: yes..parental care, gemma
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:37] herman Bergson: The feature of living together in a group increases chances of survival, so it must be an evolutionary feature
[13:38] herman Bergson: So, we saved the world again today...
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and then group behavior
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a little anyways
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): everyone want's a group to survive...criminals too
[13:39] herman Bergson: Thank you all for your participation agan
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you! Herman and class
[13:39] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay
No comments:
Post a Comment