We are told that we are intelligent beings. If you look up the word in some dictionaries you get definitions like "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills", or
"the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations" or "the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (such as tests)."
And here we do not even talk about something like emotional intelligence or social intelligence. Those are completely new areas.
What we have seen of artificial intelligence so far, doesn't come close to what the human brain is capable of. You can feed AI with billions of data and it will tell you that event A always or almost always occurs with event B.
That is it: correlations, but does that mean too that event A is the real CAUSE of event B or visa versa? That is the magic of the human brain. We look at the world as being a system of patterns: cause and effect.
That is what creates new knowledge, even though we hardly understand what causality means. David Hume related it to our sense of custom. We simply assume that the sun will come up every day after every night.
And all is based on the assumption of the uniformity of nature. That is too what AI assumes. That is why it can calculate correlations between events but is unable to see causal relations.
The strange thing is however that we all have a strong feeling of causality. Events cause events to happen. When two events happen we are still able to ask the question...ok...the one after the other, but was the one the CAUSE?
The empiricist approach to causation isn't too convincing. Even David Hume had that feeling, which led to the approach of using counterfactuals to establish real causality between events.
Immanuel Kant (1724 -1804) wasn't happy with the explanation of causality that David Hume had given.
According to him, Hume's approach leads to a psychologization and subjectivization of causality. After all, every person deduces cause-and-effect relationships from personal experiences.
It makes causality, according to Kant, a subjective concept. It simply depends on what people consider as cause-effect.
Kant wants to investigate which ideas are necessary to acquire knowledge about the world. According to Kant, we have two types of knowledge, knowledge that we acquire through sensory experience
and knowledge that we can acquire independently of experience, for example that 2 + 2 is four. He called those two forms "a posteriori" (after) and "a priori" (before).
It may be getting a bit complicated now, but we are still talking about the extent to which AI can generate NEW knowledge.
Well, let's save the hard part for next Thursday then :-)
Thank you for your attention again....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
The Discussion
[13:12] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:12] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman!
[13:12] herman Bergson: The point is...
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well computers CAN generate new knowledge, one good exaple was how a fluid dymanics simulation software discovered the so called trench effect that lead to the Kings Cross fire disaster
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): noone knew about this but since the program had all known data about fluid dynamics it just put things together and voilla. a real life experiment then confirmed this phenomenon
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however thuis was not AI even
[13:14] herman Bergson: what we call causality is related to insight of a necessary relation between to evens
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it was a simulation
[13:14] Max Chatnoir: was it discovered before the fire?
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no
[13:14] Lecturehall: 2024-04-23 [22:14] inkaku Capalini
[13:15] Lecturehall: 2024-04-23 [22:15] Jag Ravenheart
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no one could explain the suddenly explosive fire thrower like eruption into the ticket hall before they used that computer software
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): used
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ant it solved the mystery
[13:15] herman Bergson: Really questionable Bejiita
[13:15] Max Chatnoir: At least it might prevent another one
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but as said, this was not really AI but a VERY specialized simulation software
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that "knew " everything about flud dynamics
[13:16] Max Chatnoir: Does AI ever suggest experiments to test hypotheses?
[13:16] Lecturehall: 2024-04-23 [22:16] Jag Ravenheart
[13:17] ๖̶̶̶ۣۣۜۜ͜ Kimmy Jannings ღڰۣڰۣ- (kim1987.wirefly): hey sorry im late
[13:17] herman Bergson: Computers can enerate knowledge based in what we input as data,,,,so...nothing new
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hi Kimmy
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Herman
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): computers can assist based upon what we enter into them but generate new knowledge by their own
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not really
[13:18] herman Bergson: But I know computers programs came up with nre ideas todeal wirth an issue bu tyet stll based on what we already knew
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or depends on, like in my previous example but that was more it laid a puzzle from already known facts and formulas
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and made a new conclusion
[13:20] herman Bergson: If vomputers would comme up with new knowledge they need imagianation and creativity
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in this example it combined the 2 phenomenons fire flashover with the coanda effect = trench effect
[13:20] Jag Ravenheart: The best use of AI is to crunch data we give them
[13:20] herman Bergson: Rig Jag
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): computers are great at crunching data fast and exact
[13:21] herman Bergson: We are not able to oversee billions of dat...a comuter can in a short time
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as long we feed them the right input
[13:21] Max Chatnoir: So what does that tell us about creativity?
[13:22] Jag Ravenheart: If we set up the data points they can do the work faster than we can
[13:22] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): does anyone know, was it a rumor that microsoft and facebook did an experiment with two different AI's talking to one another that eventually began to create a language of their own so it became a full stop on the experiment?
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Exactly
[13:22] Max Chatnoir: I have not heard that story!
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that was the very reason for the creation of the computer in the first place, a computer calculates buth much more error free and also 10000000s of times faster than humans
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): both
[13:23] herman Bergson: wasnt it that they vreated a language no one could understanm Inkaku?
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:23] herman Bergson: mega typos...sorry
[13:23] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): yes, a language no one could understand, a language they were creating on their own
[13:23] Jag Ravenheart: but don't forget garbage in garbage out
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): crap in = crap out
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: But it could be identified as a language?
[13:24] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): that is what was said but i have not had time to research it
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like i made a CNC program for my 3D printer that im gonna run later after this, the machine will make the part to what i put in , nothing else, its i who decide what the machine should manufacture, not the machine
[13:25] herman Bergson: I just found the runmour in the press to...how it ended up I font kno
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it cant give suggestions or anything it just follow the control program i put in
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): line by line
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like any CNC machine/robot
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same with AI, we put things in there and the AI use what it has
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the stuff we gave it
[13:26] herman Bergson: Anyway....
[13:27] herman Bergson: what we are investigating here is the level ov "artificial intelligenve"
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still AI of today is quite impressive, i have started to use AI to make voice dialouge for my gamedev
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its really good
[13:27] herman Bergson: So far we have come to only level one of Pearl's observation..correlations...
[13:28] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): its impressive enough to be slightly scary. even if the general programming is coming from human and possibly, especially because the programming comes from humans
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): https://elevenlabs.io/
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this one i use
[13:28] herman Bergson: No way it can identify real causal relations yet it seems
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): elevellabs
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): elevenlabs
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Herman
[13:30] herman Bergson: what do you mean Inkaku?
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that is a very difficult thing for a computer, to handle things like that it would need to actually understand what things are and no machine can do that
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they cant feel or really understand things in our analouge reality
[13:31] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): humans on the whole are not truly very kind and most dont seem to have the best intentions. AI in the wrong hands and it is everywhere could mean their main focus is to create AI as a weapon
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what an apple, a car or human ect actually is
[13:31] bergfrau Apfelbaum: the AI can ask the AI
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: AI is already being used in weapons.
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:32] Jangle McElroy: When I've used Generative AI to create images,supplying some examples to inspire the AI to create variations form. I've found that they can lack understanding of how things work. For example, including a handle, but putting it on the object backward. as the AI lacks understanding of Human usability for objects.
[13:32] Max Chatnoir: Isn't it being used to select targets by drones?
[13:32] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): yes, although, in my head i was going towards the more updated AIs that they intend to look human and then there you have it,RoboCop
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly
[13:32] Jag Ravenheart: AI only works if you can put in all the rules like in chess
[13:32] herman Bergson: I have to disagree with you Inkaku...I even did a project about " Most peole are OK"
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however a chess computer only "sees" 3 or so moves ahead and always from a fixed sequence, might have improved a bit now but
[13:33] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): wow, i even remember one of the discussions from years ago with you regarding human nature. it was very interesting. the concept of how people will inherently watch a disaster happening without being willing to help and the reasons for why
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like for ex it will first assume u make a good move then a really bad move and its a hard coded sequence
[13:33] Jag Ravenheart: No AI is now playing Go
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes but u need to use a supercomputer then,
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then it works
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but indeed the AI of today uses the entire internet so
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we have much larger and more powerful systems today
[13:34] Jag Ravenheart: perfect information, such as the game GO is perfect for AI
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): deep blue was a good example of a really powerful chess computer
[13:36] herman Bergson: I played go when I was student :_
[13:36] herman Bergson: Loved it
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i tried to learn i dont remember the actual name, japanese chess
[13:37] herman Bergson: Even memorized a game of 250 moves and could replau y it
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but all info and also every app / game i tried was japanese only
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i heard of it in Naruto
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Shogi !
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it was called shogi
[13:37] Jag Ravenheart: AI as we know it is only as good as the info you put in so If you try to ask it a question you did not give it the parameters for it will get it wrong
[13:38] herman Bergson: watashi wa nihon go hanashimasu :-)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that one i got however i think
[13:38] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): if it has access to data, google, the internet, records, there are no parameters
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i know Japanese a quite bit but just not the writing symbols
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i cant read it
[13:39] herman Bergson: Indeed Jag
[13:39] Jag Ravenheart: If you are able to make it smart enough to use the data it gets from google then yes
[13:40] herman Bergson: Just think ogf the source of the data...???!!
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:40] herman Bergson: Google, facebook , tiktok ....a;;; crap
[13:40] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): hahaha\
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): crap in crap out
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): = an ai that scream racist comments ect out of control
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): among other things
[13:41] Jag Ravenheart: well all we humans get from is the news and some how we can see the crap and the not so crap
[13:42] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): can we though? so many see it, on the news, on a social media and suddenly, its true
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one crazy thing i saw was AI had created some article (now deleted out of existence) about the benefits of feeding pigs broken glass
[13:42] Jag Ravenheart: Yes you are right
[13:42] Jag Ravenheart: Inka
[13:42] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): yikes to feeding broken glass
[13:42] Jag Ravenheart: That is why the meda is able to steer the masses
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it was insane reading
[13:43] herman Bergson: anyway...question was, can AI produce new knowlegde...based in our understanding of our concept of causa;ity...,y option still is ni
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: Why did it create the article about pigs and broken glass?
[13:43] herman Bergson: no
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no idea
[13:43] Jag Ravenheart: look at all the people who think it is funny to tell you to dry somthing in your microwave lol
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was just like it was feeding on chaos
[13:44] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): to steer the masses into something that isnt true and off topic of what is really an issue
[13:44] herman Bergson: Dry in a microwave?????
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this was a while ago however i think chat GPT had just been created maybe just then
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when the broken glass article was made
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: Well, as long as it's not a cat or something. In the microwave.
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so it was not very polished
[13:45] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): a terrible trend of people putting out information, such as, you can dry your objects in the microwave, and for lack of betterk nowledge, people falling for it and trying it because they dont know any better
[13:45] herman Bergson: Please Max!!!!
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes the urban legend about gransmother exploding her cat in the micriwave to dry it after bath
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): grandmother
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Ick!
[13:45] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): i wish it was urban lol
[13:45] herman Bergson: A microwave only accelerates the H2O molecules i an 0
[13:45] herman Bergson: object
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well if u don't understand how it works, that it boils things from the inside
[13:46] Jag Ravenheart: With the level of stupid we are calling public school you don't have to work very hard to convince them any thing
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): grandmothers don't know that Herman
[13:47] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): the school system here has taken a massive turn for the worse. the next generation is in deep trouble
[13:47] herman Bergson: lol
[13:47] herman Bergson: Time to end this class...
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also the microwaves are on and off at full power in intervals and not at a steady rate like in an ordinary oven
[13:47] herman Bergson: otherwise we all end up in a microwave :-)
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so even defrost mode would kill anything put inside the oven
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Trump also recommended drain cleaners against Corona....... broken glass for pigs..... Luckily there is still common sense....
[13:47] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): hahahahaha
[13:47] herman Bergson: Class dimissed....
[13:47] herman Bergson: Thank you all again
[13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you! Herman and class
[13:48] Inkaku Capalini (inkaku.capalini): Trump 2024! lets make America great again! woot!
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha yes, drian cleaner and bleach
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): VERY HEALTHY
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): NOT
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you very interesting again:))
[13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
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