Tuesday, February 3, 2015

564: Star Trek and Atheism....

Star Trek - Voyager, Season 3, episode 7 : “Sacred Ground”.
Captain Kathryn Janeway of the Starship Voyager
Commander Chakotay, First Officer
Kes, assistent of the doctor
Kes enters a Holy Shrine of ancestral spirits out of curiosity and is hit by a force field and fell into a coma. Only knowledge of the nature of the force field can save Kes’s life.
The Naconians refuse to give the information, for it is  holy for them. Then we get the next conversation:
CHAKOTAY: Of course there is always the possibility that ancestral spirits really do control what happens in the shrine.
JANEWAY: To each its own, Commander, but I imagine, that if we scrap deep enough, we’d find scientific base for most religious doctrines.
CHAKOTAY: I remember, when my mother taught me about the science underlying the vision quest, in a way, I felt disappointed. Some of the mystery was gone. Maybe the Naconians have chosen not to loose the mystery.
Later Janeway is criticized by Three Wise of Naconia with remarks like this:
“If you can explain everything, what is left to believe in?”
“Even when her science fails right before her eyes, she has full confidence in it. Now, that is a leap of faith”
At the end of the episode Kes recovers from the coma and the doctor has a perfect scientific explanation for what has happened.
JANEWAY: It is a perfectly sound explanation, doctor ….. [she hesitates with an expression of clear doubt on her face] ….. very scientific.
Isn’t Star Trek educational !? All answers to the question “Why do we have beliefs?” in a nutshell: science versus mystery, belief explained away, clinging to science is a belief too, science as another religion. 
Amazing isn’t it. And the scientific Janeway leaves the viewer with a feeling of doubt, in other words “to each his own”. But although this all happens in the far future, we are already ahead of Janeway.
We live in an phase of scientific development: the age of neuroscience. And as Daniel  Dennett says, religion is a natural phenomenon. You can see it, measure it, so study it.
As an organism we are an integrated collection of problem solving devices, adaptations, that were shaped by natural selection over evolutionary time
to promote, in some way, the survival of the genes, that directed their construction. Our cells need food and oxygen. The heart solves the problem.
The blood transports it all to the cells and its hemoglobin takes care of the transportation. And the brain does the same with respect to body functions and interaction with our environment.
What we have to keep in mind is that the brain is indeed an integrated collection of problem solving devices, but that these devices go through a learning proces during development.
 And in that process all kinds of by-products may emerge, or old patterns may surface, which means it is not a Mr. Spock like brain.     
To give you an example: When was the last time you scold your computer, even hit it? When was the last time you asked your bowling ball to hit all pins in a streak?
We all know this kind of behavior. It is only one step away from talking to a crucifix or an image of some saint or god. Or isn’t it?
To answer this question we have to look at the development of the brain. One of the first psychologists, who did this, was jean Piaget (1896 -1980).
He discovered that in the cognitive development of a child between 2 and 7 there is a period of animism: the belief, that inanimate objects can be conscious.
This can be explained by an implicit understanding of the world in a child's mind which assumes that all events are the product of intention or consciousness. 
The child at that age is cognitive unable to distinguish the external world from one's internal world.
Later we develop more cognitive insights, so that we know that talking to a tree makes little sense, but this doesn’t mean, that is disappears from our mind.
And thus you could conclude that the religious behavior with respect to idols, images, crucifixes and the like is a by-product of this feature of the cognitive mind.
like reading and writing is a by-product of our ability to use language and music is a by-product of our ability to hear differences in pitch.
When I say that the old tree in front of your house will do your taxes, clean the table and do the dishes, you probably would feel a bit sorry for me,
But what do you feel  when I say: “Go outside and tap the tree three times. Then do a wish and your wish will come true”? 
Bad luck for you if you haven’t such a tree in your yard, of course.
This animistic trait in all of us is one step away from all kinds of ritualistic and religious behavior, but this is only one of the traits of the brain, which can lead to beliefs.
Next lecture will be on one of our strongest mental inclinations: dualism, the belief that body and mind are two separate entities.
That is very interesting from a Star Trek perspective, for the transporter system there only decompose and compose the molecules of the physical body…..?!
Thank you …. the floor is yours….. ^_^

The Discussion

[2015/01/27 13:16]  Daruma Hermine Boa  claps
[2015/01/27 13:16]  .: That is very interesting from a Star Trek perspective, for the transporter system there only decompose and compose the molecules of the physical body…..?!
[2015/01/27 13:16]  Max Chatnoir: I always say thank you to my car for turning on the dome light at night.  There's animism.
[2015/01/27 13:16]  Gemma Allen  GIGGLES!!
[2015/01/27 13:16]  Gemma Allen ...LOL...
[2015/01/27 13:16]  .: Thank you …. the floor is yours….. ^_^
[2015/01/27 13:16]  Bejiita Imako: heehe
[2015/01/27 13:17]  herman Bergson: /me grins...
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Corona Anatine: yes and there is the question of how the SL transporter would be safety tested
[2015/01/27 13:17]  science24: LOL
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Thank you Herman
[2015/01/27 13:17]  CB Axel: I wish my tree could do my taxes.
[2015/01/27 13:17]  herman Bergson: almost everybody is animistic....has animistic beliefs it seems
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Abinoam Nørgaard  needs that tree
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Max Chatnoir: I guess I'm really thanking ... the designer and builder of the car.
[2015/01/27 13:17]  science24: does it contain some DNA :)
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Ewa Aska: is online.
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Corona Anatine: so did kent hovind
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i would just like to point out that people to not pray TO a crucifix or statue or picture... It is only a symbol of what they believe they are praying to
[2015/01/27 13:17]  Abinoam Nørgaard nods
[2015/01/27 13:18]  CB Axel: Good point, Gemma. It helps to concentrate the mind.
[2015/01/27 13:18]  herman Bergson: Yes Gemma....you can look at that in several ways...
[2015/01/27 13:18]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): exactly
[2015/01/27 13:18]  Bejiita Imako: transporters re impossible since your own mind would forever disappear and you would die and another independent mind with no past memories would emerge instead at the other location
[2015/01/27 13:18]  Corona Anatine: then why is facing that symbol important?
[2015/01/27 13:18]  Bejiita Imako: you die and he is born in that moment
[2015/01/27 13:18]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): focus
[2015/01/27 13:18]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): reverence
[2015/01/27 13:19]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): why do people keep photos of paintings of those they love
[2015/01/27 13:19]  Corona Anatine: but if 'god' is everywhere it shouldn’t matter which direction faced
[2015/01/27 13:19]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): same thing
[2015/01/27 13:19]  herman Bergson: You could say that, but yet we use these statues and images....
[2015/01/27 13:19]  herman Bergson: not a white piece of paper for instance
[2015/01/27 13:19]  Corona Anatine: indeed so - proving god is not god
[2015/01/27 13:20]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): or a word as in meditation
[2015/01/27 13:20]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): like the buddhists
[2015/01/27 13:20]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): we are creatures who like to employ symbols, symbolism is an important human characteristic. homo symbolicus and all that
[2015/01/27 13:20]  Bejiita Imako: ah
[2015/01/27 13:20]  herman Bergson: yes....a meaningless word even...
[2015/01/27 13:20]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): exactly
[2015/01/27 13:20]  herman Bergson: True Abinoam....
[2015/01/27 13:21]  herman Bergson: There are theories about this ritualistic behavior...
[2015/01/27 13:21]  herman Bergson: We'll get to them , I assume
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Max Chatnoir: Is it like the superstitious pigeons?
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Ladyy Seiling (ladyy.haven): is offline.
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): however i am not trusting the tree calling 911 on the advisor
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): lol
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Bejiita Imako: your theory of left over animism can indeed be an explanation of religious belief
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Janette Shim: is offline.
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Corona Anatine: anthropomorphising is innate to humans however-so we will inevitably inbue objects with a 'soul' concept
[2015/01/27 13:21]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): have you tried? maybe it works :D
[2015/01/27 13:22]  Bejiita Imako: from the childhood period
[2015/01/27 13:22]  herman Bergson: It is already something that you doubt the tree Gemma :-)
[2015/01/27 13:22]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i not only doubt it but an fearful for the person who suggested
[2015/01/27 13:22]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): so calling 911
[2015/01/27 13:22]  herman Bergson: Yes corona we are wired with animism...
[2015/01/27 13:22]  Max Chatnoir: Didn't somebody do an experiment that made pigeons display superstitious behavior?
[2015/01/27 13:22]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): (emergency help in usa)
[2015/01/27 13:23]  Corona Anatine: its just as that science advances our knowledge base of the world - that 'god' [s] will recede into 'supernatural world'
[2015/01/27 13:23]  Ciska Riverstone: we doubt the tree but belief that the global market makes sure everyone is cared for in the right way - I'm not really sure if the tree would be less hurtful for societies
[2015/01/27 13:23]  herman Bergson: I am afraid that this "superstitious" is just our interpretation, Max
[2015/01/27 13:23]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): in defense of ritualism, there's also a component of beauty and art there. it's not all superstition, some of it has aesthetic value
[2015/01/27 13:23]  Max Chatnoir: True.
[2015/01/27 13:24]  Corona Anatine: if you believe that the global market caters for all then you do have the mind of a child
[2015/01/27 13:24]  Ciska Riverstone: well we postulate that
[2015/01/27 13:24]  herman Bergson: I am not pleading for abolishing all religious and ritualistic behavior...
[2015/01/27 13:24]  Ciska Riverstone: by doing it
[2015/01/27 13:24]  herman Bergson: that would not be realistic....
[2015/01/27 13:24]  Corona Anatine: or possible
[2015/01/27 13:25]  herman Bergson: But when a philosopher looks at atheism.....he has questions :-)
[2015/01/27 13:25]  CB Axel: I think maybe the ritual also helps to focus the mind.
[2015/01/27 13:25]  Max Chatnoir: It seems to be remarkably durable
[2015/01/27 13:25]  CB Axel: It's not just a superstition, it helps with attention.
[2015/01/27 13:25]  Corona Anatine: religion is like 'art ' impossible to surpres because innate to human minds
[2015/01/27 13:25]  herman Bergson: Yes, that may be so, CB....
[2015/01/27 13:25]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): one should always question, definitely
[2015/01/27 13:25]  Bejiita Imako: ah
[2015/01/27 13:25]  herman Bergson: But that is how we think about it today...
[2015/01/27 13:26]  Max Chatnoir: How do you think religion is different from philosophy?
[2015/01/27 13:26]  Corona Anatine: and if believe in 'god' were cleened than something else would replace it
[2015/01/27 13:26]  herman Bergson: Nobody has any idea what the future of religion will be.....in ...say a 100 years
[2015/01/27 13:26]  herman Bergson: And then....which religion?
[2015/01/27 13:26]  Max Chatnoir: They are both concerned with what exists and how we behave, and so on.
[2015/01/27 13:26]  Ciska Riverstone: it already happens corona
[2015/01/27 13:26]  herman Bergson: Hinduism, Islam, Zen, christianity?
[2015/01/27 13:26]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): and i am sure that those who loved 100 years ago thought the same
[2015/01/27 13:26]  Corona Anatine: relgion is perhaps diff in that phil offers no external hope
[2015/01/27 13:27]  Corona Anatine: philosiphy offers knowledge not hope/faith
[2015/01/27 13:27]  herman Bergson: Well Gemma...I guess they wouldnt have believed that today in th eNetherlands only 17% still believe in a god
[2015/01/27 13:27]  Max Chatnoir: At least in the monotheistic religions, there seems to be some authority figure.
[2015/01/27 13:27]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): offers a lot more questions
[2015/01/27 13:27]  Ewa Aska: is offline.
[2015/01/27 13:27]  Corona Anatine: that is because religion is an ongoing evolving process
[2015/01/27 13:27]  Ciska Riverstone: i was referring to the economic systems societies built herman
[2015/01/27 13:27]  herman Bergson: It is Corona...
[2015/01/27 13:28]  Ewa Aska: is online.
[2015/01/27 13:28]  Max Chatnoir: So the arguments are about who is in charge of the world.
[2015/01/27 13:28]  herman Bergson: And to understand this evolution, we have to study it
[2015/01/27 13:28]  Corona Anatine: agreed
[2015/01/27 13:28]  Bejiita Imako: very true
[2015/01/27 13:28]  herman Bergson: Who do you think, Max??
[2015/01/27 13:28]  Ciska Riverstone: our beliefs? ,)
[2015/01/27 13:28]  Corona Anatine: i would say -no one in charge as such
[2015/01/27 13:29]  herman Bergson: Maybe...
[2015/01/27 13:29]  herman Bergson: I would suggest the laws of nature and physics
[2015/01/27 13:29]  Ciska Riverstone: beliefs are a logical expression of not knowing but having to built a future
[2015/01/27 13:29]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it is much too complicated for one person anyway or even a committee
[2015/01/27 13:29]  herman Bergson: And we are intelligent spectators :-)
[2015/01/27 13:29]  Bejiita Imako: indeed Physics and chemistry is the god of the world
[2015/01/27 13:29]  Bejiita Imako: nothing else
[2015/01/27 13:29]  Max Chatnoir: That sounds good to me, but a lot of people seem to care about which authority is THE authority.
[2015/01/27 13:30]  Corona Anatine: or rather getting you to agree with there one authority
[2015/01/27 13:30]  herman Bergson: There are some interesting things to say about...
[2015/01/27 13:30]  Ciska Riverstone: because we think dualistic max and lack a reference system of how it should be "right"
[2015/01/27 13:30]  herman Bergson: For instance..that some believe that THE authority transcends all laws of nature and physics
[2015/01/27 13:31]  Max Chatnoir: Yes, and that's what makes it religion.
[2015/01/27 13:31]  Corona Anatine: how would that ever be determined in a practical sense?
[2015/01/27 13:31]  Max Chatnoir: IMO.
[2015/01/27 13:31]  herman Bergson: Yes....and then there is the question....What SI religion.....?
[2015/01/27 13:31]  herman Bergson: IS
[2015/01/27 13:31]  Corona Anatine: because if it transcends then it is beyond - and if it comes into the world of physics then it isnt outside
[2015/01/27 13:31]  Max Chatnoir: Well, it can't be determined pragmatically; hence the battle.
[2015/01/27 13:32]  Corona Anatine: a good question
[2015/01/27 13:32]  Max Chatnoir: Well, I guess the SL gods are the Lindens.
[2015/01/27 13:32]  herman Bergson: I notice a battle on several fronts....
[2015/01/27 13:32]  Corona Anatine: cant it be easier determined by asking what religion isn’t
[2015/01/27 13:32]  Bejiita Imako:
[2015/01/27 13:32]  Corona Anatine: no the god of sl is script lang
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Bejiita Imako: nope thats the sl bible
[2015/01/27 13:33]  herman Bergson: the philosophical battle...like between JJC Smart and JJ Haldane is a complete different battle from the one on the neurobiological front
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Bejiita Imako: the LSL
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Max Chatnoir: In the beginning was the LSL...
[2015/01/27 13:33]  CB Axel: Script language was handed down to us by the Lindens. °͜°
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Bejiita Imako: something like that
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Corona Anatine: cna for example an army or the hells nagels MC be called a religion ?
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Bejiita Imako: and the Linden saw it was good
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Bejiita Imako:
[2015/01/27 13:33]  herman Bergson: Amen CB.....and it made us the creators
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): sounds like a writing project ...the sl bible
[2015/01/27 13:33]  Corona Anatine: the HA for example pay reverence to a concept
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Max Chatnoir: Oh, that would be a good project!
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Bejiita Imako: hehe yes
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Bejiita Imako: sounds interesting
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i used ot have a sl prayer
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): was fun
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Corona Anatine: which transcendes the members as individuals
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Bejiita Imako:
[2015/01/27 13:34]  Corona Anatine: as does the concept of 'animal rights / earth first
[2015/01/27 13:35]  Max Chatnoir: I don't think the army can be called a religion, but I can't articulate why yet.  I guess because the authority figures are all real and identifiable.
[2015/01/27 13:35]  Corona Anatine: which are not alwasy about animals
[2015/01/27 13:35]  Corona Anatine: and there is reverence to a concept of army honour/the flag
[2015/01/27 13:35]  Max Chatnoir: Yes, like loyalty to your university.
[2015/01/27 13:35]  Mikki Louise Dover (mikkilouise): is offline.
[2015/01/27 13:35]  herman Bergson: Well at least you all now know that you are in a way religious...all of you , in your animism :-))
[2015/01/27 13:36]  Corona Anatine: but if we can determine when something is not a religion it becomes easier to define what is one
[2015/01/27 13:36]  Corona Anatine: an element of animism is the key then?
[2015/01/27 13:36]  herman Bergson: An interesting point about animism is, that it often is regarded as a primitive stage of religiosity...
[2015/01/27 13:37]  Max Chatnoir: attributing agency to objects.
[2015/01/27 13:37]  herman Bergson: yes Max
[2015/01/27 13:37]  Bejiita Imako: animism and religious belief seems logical to be connected in some way
[2015/01/27 13:37]  Bejiita Imako: at least for me
[2015/01/27 13:37]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): maybe not so much to objects, as to what animates them
[2015/01/27 13:37]  Corona Anatine: the hells angels would not be a religion because while they worship the club and colours they dont consider them to be inhabited by spirits
[2015/01/27 13:37]  Max Chatnoir: And then you expand the domain of the responsibility for this and that.
[2015/01/27 13:37]  herman Bergson: And for some reason we are only religiously grown ups when we adhere a monotheistic belief
[2015/01/27 13:38]  Max Chatnoir: Oh, one of those philosophers DID propose that God was required for all movement.  Who was it?
[2015/01/27 13:38]  herman Bergson: Aristotle did....the First Mover....
[2015/01/27 13:38]  Max Chatnoir: somebody around 17th century?
[2015/01/27 13:38]  Corona Anatine: so a question would have to be - if a tree did grant wishes -whence comes the power source for them
[2015/01/27 13:38]  herman Bergson: And in the Middle Ages....
[2015/01/27 13:38]  Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Thank you Herman, wishes everyone a good time
[2015/01/27 13:38]  Corona Anatine: the tree itself or the laws of the universe or an external 'god'
[2015/01/27 13:39]  Max Chatnoir: But this person also mean in terms of any movement any time.
[[2015/01/27 13:39]  Daruma Hermine Boa (daruma): bye chantal
[2015/01/27 13:39]  Bejiita Imako: bye chantal
[2015/01/27 13:39]  CB Axel: Bye, Chantal.
[2015/01/27 13:39]  herman Bergson: The Greek Parmenides perhaps...
[2015/01/27 13:39]  herman Bergson: Wasn’t he the guy of the PANTA REI?
[2015/01/27 13:40]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): it seems to me that animism builds on the basic perception that there is life out there, a living force that does animate, not just us human, but living beings in general. and then the nowadays strange notion of objects as somehow alive as well
[2015/01/27 13:40]  Corona Anatine: by that criterea no religion is actually grown up because we don’t actually have any monotheism
[2015/01/27 13:40]  Max Chatnoir: The person I'm thinking of was later, I think.  Trying to reconcile free will with divine determinism.
[2015/01/27 13:40]  Max Chatnoir: You think you are moving, but God is really doing it.
[2015/01/27 13:40]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): it seems like a primitive way to rationalize life as such
[2015/01/27 13:40]  Corona Anatine: for example the rc church is often more focussed on saints than 'god'
[[2015/01/27 13:41]  Max Chatnoir: I'll have to look it  up; I thought it was an odd idea for that time period.
[2015/01/27 13:41]  CB Axel: They don't worship the saints, though.
[2015/01/27 13:41]  Corona Anatine: that sounds like the gaia hypothesis alb
[2015/01/27 13:41]  herman Bergson: I'd say that animism is just a by-product of our cognitive development Abinoam
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Corona Anatine: but they are seen as a source of power
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): n they are considered interceders to god
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): the saints that is
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Bejiita Imako: something like that
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): because they have already made it to heaven
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Corona Anatine: but old style polytheism was often like that
[2015/01/27 13:42]  CB Axel: Yeah, Gemma. I think they're more of a conduit to God.
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): exactly
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Bejiita Imako: yes
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Corona Anatine: there were the gods and then there were the spirirts
[2015/01/27 13:42]  Max Chatnoir: Yes, that's an interesting notion, too.
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Bejiita Imako: the saints connect to god
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Roto Diesel: is offline.
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Max Chatnoir: That priests or saints or your mother can intercede for you.
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Bejiita Imako: a pathway sort of
[2015/01/27 13:43]  herman Bergson: Saints are other questionable phenomena :-)
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Corona Anatine: as did the spirits in nature connect with the poly gods
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Ciska Riverstone: (gtg - thanx herman - have a good day or night folks )
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye   
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ciska
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Daruma Hermine Boa (daruma): bye ciska
[2015/01/27 13:43]  science24: night Ciska
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Bejiita Imako: wowo all are so quick away today!
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Max Chatnoir: Why ARE there saints.?  I haven't thought about that before.
[2015/01/27 13:43]  CB Axel: My problem with Christianity as a monotheistic religion is that they worship God and Jesus.
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Bejiita Imako: lol
[2015/01/27 13:43]  Corona Anatine: there is also an argument that a lot of animism is mixed with the concept of ancestor worsj hip
[2015/01/27 13:44]  CB Axel: And the Holy Spirit.
[2015/01/27 13:44]  herman Bergson: yes indeed Max , good question :-)
[2015/01/27 13:44]  Abinoam Nørgaard (abinoam): the doctrine of trinity attempts to make sense of that
[2015/01/27 13:44]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): the church thought it was good to recognize those who hve proved themselves worthy to be with god
[2015/01/27 13:44]  Max Chatnoir: Interesting that talking about atheism raises so many questions about religion!
[2015/01/27 13:44]  CB Axel: Yeah, Abinoam, but I don't buy it. LOL
[2015/01/27 13:44]  herman Bergson: yes...attemps....but it is a total abstraction
[2015/01/27 13:44]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): and examples for the faithful
[2015/01/27 13:44]  Corona Anatine: saints are probably in part to do with ancestor worship
[2015/01/27 13:44]  Daruma Hermine Boa (daruma): I have to go also
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Corona Anatine: reverence for 'great' people
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): omg
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen GIGGLES!!
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Bejiita Imako: hehehee
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Daruma Hermine Boa (daruma): See you next week.
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen  GIGGLES!!
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen  ...LOL...
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye   
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Max Chatnoir: Oh, I love "abstraction"  Keep that word, Herman.
[2015/01/27 13:45]  herman Bergson: I think, some minds get overloaded here today :-))
[2015/01/27 13:45]  Corona Anatine: such as today we have 'celebrities'
[2015/01/27 13:45]  herman Bergson: So I'd better thank you all again :-)
[[2015/01/27 13:45]  herman Bergson: Thank you all and Class dismissed ^_^
[2015/01/27 13:46]  CB Axel: Thank you, herman.
[2015/01/27 13:46]  Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!!

[2015/01/27 13:46]  Max Chatnoir: Interesting discussion!

No comments:

Post a Comment