Today not exactly a philosophical lecture, but more a lecture on what is going on right now in the world, which scares the hell out of an atheist, I assume.
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And not only an atheist, but everyone who has some doubts about the benefits of religions.
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The first thing I’d like to mention is what I read in my newspaper this morning. It was a report of the presentation of the first official candidate for presidency in the United States.
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It was Ted Cruz, a right wing Republican from Texas. He is 44 and was elected for the Senate in 2012. And as the article says:”He immediately stood out by his aggressive style.”
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When you combine this with what he said: ”Our rights are not from man but from God Almighty.”, you can imagine,
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that I felt a little relieved, when I read: “As an exponent of radical right Cruz is not currently considered a major contender.”
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But there is another example, where religion is used for political goals. China and India, the two superpowers of Asia, are contending for influence in the region.
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They are not trying to gain this influence by showing off with intimidating military power, but by use of the soft force of religion.
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So both countries try through promotion of their Buddhist heritage to win allies in the predominantly Buddhist countries in East and Southeast Asia.
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The lndian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is known as a very religious Hindu. You may wonder why he is willing to promote Buddhism and not his own Hinduism.
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There are two explanations. For many Hindus Buddha is an avatar of the god Vishnu, which makes him a member of the Hindu pantheon.
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Modi is a follower of a kind of Hinduism, that easily incorporates aspects of other religions, except christianity and islam.
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The second explanation is that Hinduism is too much India, could even be regarded as Indian imperialism, where Buddhism is the more widespread religion in the region.
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The method is to pay attention to Buddhism at every possible occasion to imprint the ideas upon the public,
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like in Russia the public gets to watch Putin every day on TV. General marketing techniques, I would say.
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In 28 years Modi is the first prime minister of India who recently visited Sri Lanka again. And what does he do?
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He pays a visit to Anuradhapura. the most important Buddhist pilgrimage on the island.
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The attention to Buddhism is a part India's diplomatic strategy since about four years , and thus it all stems already from before Modi.
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However, it is not an originally Indian idea. It was a reaction to policies of China. Beijing, that has a rich Buddhist past has started about ten years ago,
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by loaning religious objects to countries in the region for exhibitions and organizing international conferences on Buddhist themes.
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One problem for China is the Dalai Lama, the official spiritual leader of Buddhism and exiled from Tibet to India. And as we know, Tibet is a big political problem for Beijing.
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One of the problems is the next Dalai Lama, for he has to be a reincarnation of the present one. But the present one has said on many occasions, that he is not willing to reincarnate in China.
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And most peculiar is, that the atheist communist party wants to direct this proces of reincarnation. Chinese bureaucrats justify this by referring to historical traditions.
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In 1799 the Chinese emperor Qianlong set the rules for reincarnation in consultation with the Tibetan ruler. When there is more than one candidate, the choice is determined by lot.
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Slips of paper with the names on it were dropped in a golden urn under supervision of a government official. Then the name picked from the urn was the reincarnation of the previous Lama.
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And it now happens to be, that such a golden urn exists in the Yonghegong temple in Beijing. This temple is the biggest Tibetan temple outside Tibet.
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In 2007 there even seem to have been created legislation to specify the juridical procedures regarding reincarnation.
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In case of reincarnation on village temple level you need approval of the municipal Bureau of Religious Affairs.
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It is 2015. The separation of church and state was declared in 1795 in The Netherlands, which was then named the Batavian Republic.
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And while Allah still rules in the Arabic world, is Buddha promoted in the China - India region and is god offered a job in the US, if he votes for Ted Cruz.
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Thank you….. the floor is yours… ^_^
Max Chatnoir: legislating reincarnation seems quite strange.
herman Bergson: Such a weird story indeed Max....
Bejiita Imako: hmm
Max Chatnoir: It's like predicting who your kid will be.
CB Axel: I heard the Dali Lama is thinking of not reincarnating right away just to show up China.
Max Chatnoir: Although I guess that is part of the Jesus story.
herman Bergson: As it is weird that a Dalai LAma tells us that he doesn’t want to reincarnate in China...
Max Chatnoir: He can't reincarnate while he is alive, can he?
CB Axel: No, but apparently he doesn't have to come back immediately.
Max Chatnoir: And how does that work if he picks a successor?
herman Bergson: noono...he has to die for that :-)
Max Chatnoir: Oh, maybe it's after he dies that the candidates are chosen?
CB Axel: He doesn't pick a successor.
CB Axel: Yes.
herman Bergson: Yes...
herman Bergson: the procedure is like this...
Max Chatnoir: OK, I see. So he can't solve the problem by dying without an heir.
herman Bergson: after his death monks go searching for a child...a special child....
CB Axel: He's celebate, I believe.
herman Bergson: and for some reason they KNOW which child is the reincarnation...
Max Chatnoir: I think so.
Bejiita Imako: ah
Max Chatnoir: So somebody gets to be regent while the kid grows up.
Max Chatnoir: well, clearly it's Ted Cruz!
herman Bergson: I have no knowledge of the details ...
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol Max
herman Bergson: Oh my....! Max
CB Axel: He's not a ruler. He's just a priest, so he's taken to be raised by monks, if I remember correctly.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): poor child...
Bejiita Imako: ehehe
herman Bergson: yes I think so too CB...
Bejiita Imako: hmm indeed i d not want to be selected like that just because
Max Chatnoir: true. I guess the Dalai Lama is more of a role model than a dictator.
Bejiita Imako: might be
herman Bergson: in a way it is a constructed situation....prefab...:-)
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): You are save bejiita I suppose you are not a child anymore...
CB Axel: Anyway, people are using religion to sway our votes.
herman Bergson: The Dalai Lama has no political role at all....
Bejiita Imako: he is like the king in Sweden
herman Bergson: he is something like the pope in roman catholic church is
Bejiita Imako: just a commercial figure
CB Axel: And it's not just atheists that need to worry. It's anyone who doesn't subscribe to the ruling religion.
CB Axel: Good analogy, herman.
herman Bergson: Indeed CB...
Bejiita Imako: ah
Max Chatnoir: Can the Dalai Lama speak ex cathedra, like the pope?
herman Bergson: Yes ..he often does
herman Bergson: And then a lot of people think that it is very special what he says...:-)
Max Chatnoir: No kidding! So he can sort of set policy?
herman Bergson: Oh yes...
herman Bergson: As an exile from Tibet....he has a political connotation...
Max Chatnoir: But if he started spouting actual evil, what would happen?
CB Axel: I follow the Dalai Lama and the Pope on Twitter. °͜°
Max Chatnoir: The pope is on Twitter?
Max Chatnoir: No!
herman Bergson: Buddhism is a non violent religion Max....
Bejiita Imako: yes he is
CB Axel: Yes. Of course.
herman Bergson: He would never suggested the use of violence
Bejiita Imako: I like Buddhism indeed
CB Axel: Everyone who is anyone is on Twitter. LOL
Max Chatnoir: So the Dalai Lama can't go beyond the Buddhist traditions.
herman Bergson: Then I am nobody CB, for I am not on Twitter :-))
CB Axel: Max, since he's raised by Buddhist monks, the thought of violence is probably abhorrent to him.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): me either...
Max Chatnoir: I would hope so.
herman Bergson: He is the spiritual leader of Buddhism, Max, not a political figure
CB Axel: But because he's Tibetan, he has become political.
Max Chatnoir: Because he is in exile.
herman Bergson: That IS the tricky part indeed
herman Bergson: Btu as far as I know he never has interferred with the political issues between Tibet and China
CB Axel: I think all he's done is express hope that Tibet will become free from China.
herman Bergson: yes, could be
herman Bergson: But what I wanted to show you today was, how religion still is used by political powers to their ends
Max Chatnoir: I'm thinking of a Jeb Bush/ Ted Cruz ticket..... I can't imagine anything scarier, except maybe Cruz/ Palin. But it's not impossible.
herman Bergson: Cruz/Palin.....OMG!
CB Axel: I can't understand why American Christians are so afraid of sharia law when they want to imposed their own version of it.
Bejiita Imako: hehe
Max Chatnoir: Which is what is so scary.
CB Axel: I'd love a Cruz/Palin ticket because I don't think they'd get elected.
Max Chatnoir: Well, you have a point.
herman Bergson: You know what the most rroublesome is MAx...
herman Bergson: The Americans get the president they vote for...
CB Axel: Oh, yes. We have the congress we deserve, I'm sad to say.
Max Chatnoir: I don't know what the democrats are going to do. There are still a lot of people who hate Hilary because she is a Clinton and because she is a she.
CB Axel: I'd like to see a Clinton/Warren ticket. °͜°
Max Chatnoir: I can't see her getting elected.
Max Chatnoir: Ah, there is an interesting idea.
CB Axel: Double barreled estrogen!
herman Bergson: Women have been great presidents....
Max Chatnoir: But TWO women would really bring out the crazies.
herman Bergson: Whatever you may think about her but MAgret Thatcher was THE woman....
herman Bergson: and now in Germany..Angela Merkel rules the waves
herman Bergson: So I think it is time for the US after a non Caucasian president, that there should be a woman
CB Axel: I love when I hear people ask, "Is America ready for a woman president?"
herman Bergson: lol
CB Axel: Every other country in the world seems to be ready.
CB Axel: Why not the US?
herman Bergson: I would nt mind a second....
Max Chatnoir: Takes us a while to catch up. After all, we're only a few hundred years old! :-)
CB Axel: LOL
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a strong woman like Angela for the Us:)
Bejiita Imako: hehee
herman Bergson: YEs MAx...that may be the reason....you are still too young for so many tings :-)
herman Bergson: things
Max Chatnoir: Hope we don't suffer from infant mortality.
CB Axel: When I compare the US with Europe I always feel like we're the youngest kid on the playground.
CB Axel: But we're also the biggest, so we get to be the bully.
herman Bergson: with the biggest mouth then CB :-)
CB Axel: Too true. :(
herman Bergson: Not really....
CB Axel: Maybe it's about time we got beat up.
herman Bergson: I mean...you may question a lot of things....
Bejiita Imako: the problem is US seems to think they own the entire planet sometimes
herman Bergson: but in WWII the American young boys came to Europe..
CB Axel: And we won't let Europe forget it.
CB Axel: I agree, Bejiita.
CB Axel: I guess the problem is with me, though. I'm not cut out to be part of a super power.
CB Axel: I'd rather be part of a group of nations working together.
herman Bergson: Well...I think it is more a matter of money...
Bejiita Imako: ah ㋡
CB Axel: I blame Star Trek for giving me that outlook.
Bejiita Imako: hehehe
Max Chatnoir: There is a brouhaha in Texas about putting the confederate flag on license plates.
herman Bergson: American capital is invested all over the world....and it has to be protected...
Max Chatnoir: Yes, Star Trek was a political educator for a generation. :-)
Bejiita Imako: its good stuff indeed
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
CB Axel: Star Trek or American capital?
Max Chatnoir: Star Trek.
herman Bergson: Star Trek was revolutionary....a Woman as captain of Voyager!!
Max Chatnoir: Yes, the whole main series was wonderful.
herman Bergson: and then that pseudo spiritual nuthead of a chekotay as her first officer :-)
Bejiita Imako: ah ㋡
Max Chatnoir: Well, he didn't do too much damage.
herman Bergson: No...Janeway was the boss :-))
Bejiita Imako: syre was ㋡
Bejiita Imako: sure
Bejiita Imako: ehehe
herman Bergson: I love her role in the series
Bejiita Imako: ah
Bejiita Imako: indeed
CB Axel: She was the Angela Merkle of the time.
Max Chatnoir: Janeway for president!
Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
herman Bergson: Indeed CB lol
Bejiita Imako: hehe
Max Chatnoir: Spock can be secretary of state.
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: Quite logical
CB Axel: We almost had Spock as president in the form of Al Gore.
Max Chatnoir: Yes, if the Supremes had stayed out it, we might have.
CB Axel: But can we get back to how religion is shaping politics?
Max Chatnoir: Yes, please.
herman Bergson smiles
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: Well...number one is your Ted Cruz....
CB Axel: I'm getting fed up with people trying to tell me how to live my life based on a book of fairy tales.
Max Chatnoir: I think to some extent, politics is exploiting religion.
Max Chatnoir: The republicans have been sucking up to the religious right for decades, and I don't think it has done them a lot of good.
herman Bergson: definitely....that was the meaning of my lecture today
Max Chatnoir: The crazy people used to be democrats -- like George Wallace.
Bejiita Imako: religion + politics = BAD COMBINATION!
CB Axel: I'm still hoping Cruz gets eliminated for being born in Canada.
CB Axel: I want to see his birth certificate.
herman Bergson: Indeed bejiita :-)
CB Axel: I agree Bejiita.
Bejiita Imako: only outcome of a such combo is armageddon
Bejiita Imako: sort of
Max Chatnoir: I just hope we can keep it out of the constitution.
herman Bergson: Tat our rights come from god almighty scares me like hell
Bejiita Imako: (shudders)
herman Bergson: A president saying that!!
CB Axel: I don't mind people using their religious beliefs to help them decide who to vote for, but they shouldn't force their beliefs on every one.
Bejiita Imako: true CB
Max Chatnoir: That was pretty scary, but not much worse than Nancy Reagan's astrologer.
Max Chatnoir: It's been creeping up for some time.
CB Axel: Oh! I forgot about her. LOL
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: She had an astrologer, Max?
Max Chatnoir: I think she consulted one from time to time.
Max Chatnoir: I don't think he or she was there for breakfast every day.
CB Axel: If a person's religion is against abortion, then that person shouldn't have an abortion, but don't take that away from everyone else.
herman Bergson: There you misunderstand the meaning of religion, CB
Max Chatnoir: Yes, just when we really need population control, we seem to be doing everything we can to make it difficult.
CB Axel: If a person believes homosexuality is a sin, then they should not be homosexual.
herman Bergson: oops...that is harder to achieve :-)
Bejiita Imako: hehe
herman Bergson: The problem with a religion is its epistemological basis....
CB Axel: How is abortion at least partially not a religious thing.
Max Chatnoir: I had a student once who was determined to "get over it". I often wonder what became of him.
herman Bergson: Abortion is just a biological and ethical thing...
Max Chatnoir: Yes, once you stray away from reason and evidence, anything can happen.
herman Bergson: But ethics is not the private property of religion(s)
CB Axel: Yes, but many Christians say life begins at conception according to the bible.
herman Bergson: Well not according to the manual of my computer...
Max Chatnoir: Well, life begins 3.8 billion years ago. After that, the line gets tricky.
Max Chatnoir: We clearly don't object just to killing. Texas does it several times a year.
CB Axel: If life begins at conception, why do they celebrate their birthday on the day they were removed from their mothers' bodies and not on the day she got pregnant?
CB Axel: That's the big contradiction, Max.
Bejiita Imako: hmm
herman Bergson: Interesting observation CB :-)
Bejiita Imako: never thought about that
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: My birthday is September 15....
herman Bergson: so minus 9 months....
herman Bergson: My parents jhad a great New years party.....:-)
Max Chatnoir: :-)
CB Axel: I'm going to start celebrating celebrating my birthday in November.
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
CB Axel: LOL, herman.
CB Axel: I'm going to insist my family sends me "mom got knocked up day" cards.
herman Bergson: I gonna celebrate on January 1st
CB Axel: Cool! There will be parties all over the world for you then!
Max Chatnoir: That will run you into Christmas, Hermann.
Max Chatnoir: Better stick with September. :-)
herman Bergson: Yes...when my delivery was a few weeks overdue....
CB Axel: Yeah, early January birthdays mean fewer presents.
herman Bergson: My mom was knocked up in a stable in the hay :-)
CB Axel: !
Max Chatnoir: Reincarnation!
herman Bergson: Nice expression 'knocked up'
Bejiita Imako: hehe
CB Axel: Now that I think about it, I was a month early, so I guess my parents had a happy Christmas.
herman Bergson: So maybe I am Jesus...:-))))
Bejiita Imako: hehehe
Bejiita Imako: maybee ㋡
CB Axel: And atheist Jesus. That'll be hard for people to wrap their heads around.
herman Bergson: Yes stick to MAYBE, Bejiita...:-)
Bejiita Imako: lol
herman Bergson: Well...we covered a lot of ground today...making me end up as Jesus himself...:-)
Bejiita Imako: hahaa
CB Axel: Having an atheist Jesus could change American politics quite a bit.
Max Chatnoir: That's what meddling in American politics will do to you, Herman.
CB Axel: LOL, herman
Bejiita Imako: it always takes an interesting turn ㋡
herman Bergson: I'll think about it CB.....:-)
Bejiita Imako: hahaha
CB Axel: I can't believe you beat Ted Cruz to being Jesus.
Bejiita Imako: hahaha
herman Bergson: No..he is closer to god...
Bejiita Imako: Herman is a better jesus for sure!
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: Time to dismiss class....
CB Axel: It is late.
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: if we go on like this I have to take off to heaven :-)
Bejiita Imako: hehe
Max Chatnoir: Yes, I must unlock my door now.
CB Axel: Thank you all for the discussion.
Max Chatnoir: Hi, Riger!
Max Chatnoir: Roger.
Roger Amdahl: Good evening all
herman Bergson: there....the gates of heaven are opended again :-)
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
herman Bergson: Hello Roger....
herman Bergson: victim of the Daylight saving time shift?
Max Chatnoir: See you all next week.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hi Roger
CB Axel: Oh, Bejiita, did you hear the LHC has been delayed?
Bejiita Imako: yes heard now recently
herman Bergson: And there were rumors about another new particle...
Bejiita Imako: a magnet have shorted out
Bejiita Imako: i looked forward to it starting tomorrow
CB Axel: Yes. So now they have to warm up the magnets again, find the short and cool them again.
CB Axel: I did, too.
Bejiita Imako: yes
Bejiita Imako: thats the prob with superconductors
Bejiita Imako: takes forever to fix them
CB Axel nods
Bejiita Imako: and so typical this close to startup
CB Axel: Well, I'm going to head home.
Bejiita Imako: well cu soon
herman Bergson: Thank you alll for your attention again :-)
Bejiita Imako: bye all
herman Bergson: Bye Bejiita
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): tc Bejiita
CB Axel: Thank you, herman, and everyone. This was a fun discussion even if we didn't eliminate religion from politics.
CB Axel: Bye, bye everyone.
Bejiita Imako: ㋡
Bejiita Imako: bye
herman Bergson: That will take some centuries, CB
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): have a goodnight
herman Bergson: See you, Beertje ^_^
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