Wednesday, April 29, 2015

582: Let's worship the Devil.....

This world of ours is a world of opposites. There is light and shade, there is heat and cold, there is good and evil, there is God and the Devil. 
The dualistic conception of nature has been a necessary phase in the evolution of human thought. We find the same views of good and evil spirits 
prevailing among all the peoples of the earth at the very beginning of that stage of their development which is commonly called Animism. 
But the principle of unity dominates the development of thought. Man tries to unify his conceptions in a consistent and harmonious Monism. 
Accordingly, while the belief in good spirits tended towards the formation of the doctrine of Monotheism, the belief in evil spirits led naturally to the acceptance of a single supreme evil deity, 
conceived as embodying all that is bad, destructive, and immoral. Monotheism and Monodiabolism, both originating simultaneously
 in the monistic tendencies of man's mental evolution, together constitute a Dualism which to many is still the most acceptable world-conception.
In the early days of mankind, when man had hardly any understanding of the laws physics or any other rational explanation of reality, man was inclined to regard everything as living and alive.
Everything had an anima, a ‘soul’, thence the  term “animism”. This inclination to attribute consciousness to inanimate objects is still present in our brain.
It is only since a few centuries, that we understand and interpret evil, natural and moral evil, from a more rational and scientific point of view.
But evil exists as long as mankind does, you might say and when you try to understand the origins of religions,
there seems to be no exception to the rule that fear is always the first incentive to religious worship. Fear, caused by all kinds of evil that can threaten your survival.
So, the best god to pray to and try to please is not some creator, but the spirits or spirit that threatens your life, the devil himself.
It is remarkable to observe, that in a number of religions, in which the awareness of evil was strong, one way to please evil was committing the greatest evil: human sacrifices.
Like mankind evil has its history. So it might be an interesting idea to study the history of evil, the history of the devil, to get some insights in the subject.
The first candidate as a worshipped god of evil is the Egyptian god Seth (about 3000 BC). In Egyptian mythology, Seth is portrayed as the usurper who killed and mutilated his own brother Osiris. 
Seth was a sky god, lord of the desert, master of storms, disorder, and warfare, in general, a trickster. Seth embodied the element of violence and disorder within the ordered world. 
Seth is an equal among equals. In a world, where you have hardly any defense against  diseases, disasters, invading enemies,
maybe this reflects how people experienced evil in those days: a phenomenon equal to all other phenomena, an equal part of their daily life.
Thank you…if you have any questions or remarks, feel free….the floor is yours ^_^

The Discussion

herman Bergson: There is no evil in having no questions :-)
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): were there other gods then Seth?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): was he really the first???
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): evil ones i mean
Max Chatnoir: Chaos and Cosmos -- Enthalpy and Entropy.
Max Chatnoir: Who did Cain and Abel represent?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): sons of adam and eve human
herman Bergson: There certainly were others Beertje...beginning with Seth is just a choice...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah ok
Max Chatnoir: Another pair of opposed brothers.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but human?
herman Bergson: Bu tthe main point is that people gave evil an identity worship
Max Chatnoir: True.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they still do
herman Bergson: Bu tin fact it meant an attempt to escape evil...
Max Chatnoir: Creepy that they would pick an evil entity to worship.  Placate, maybe, but actually worship?
herman Bergson: for instance....
herman Bergson: disease was in those days an incomprehensible evil....
CB Axel: If you think of worshiping as sucking up, it makes sense.
Max Chatnoir: Yes, it must have been.
herman Bergson: today we do not regard it as evil...we go to a doctor..
Max Chatnoir: Break out in spots and fall over dead, or waste away.
herman Bergson: when you dont understand you are quite willing to attribute the event to some magic power...
Max Chatnoir: Hi, Stephen!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but some really believe it an illness from god
CB Axel: Hello, Stephen. How nice to see you here.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): still
Stephen Xootfly: Hi, all.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): hi
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hello
herman Bergson: YEs GEmma...and they even refuse vaccination.....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
herman Bergson: god's will should prevail...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): right
Max Chatnoir: Well, I guess if you feel truly helpless, then appealing to God's will or evil entities might be some comfort.
herman Bergson: But today the issue is that evil is turned into some god, which you should please and worship....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): very true
herman Bergson: psychologically it might help indeed Max
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i am not sure i agree with that
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): evil is to be avoided
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): for most
herman Bergson: but it is a product of our culture to behave like that
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): by appealing to a god to take it away
Max Chatnoir: But why would an Evil got want to help you?
Max Chatnoir: Evil god
CB Axel: Well, they could either pray to the devil in an attempt to placate him or pray to God to have him protect you.
herman Bergson: The other point was that it is FEAR that is at the basis of this behavior
CB Axel: Fear and helplessness.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): more common that
CB Axel: I think we're confusing worshiping with honoring.
herman Bergson: another interesting point is that the god of evil is an equal to the god of good...
herman Bergson: Seth and Osiris were brothers....
herman Bergson: Seth killed Osiris....
herman Bergson: and cut him into pieces...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): wonderful
herman Bergson: ISis the wife of Osiris put im together again.....
CB Axel: If by worship you include praying for mercy and offering sacrifices so evil will go bother someone else, then worshipping the devil makes sense.
herman Bergson: Just enoug time to mate and get a son, Horus :-)
herman Bergson: yes CB...that was the goal....please the evil god and keep him in a good mood
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): at least one part of Osiris works fine:)
herman Bergson: The Old Testament God was actually also such a nasty fellow...
herman Bergson: dont make him angry..!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
herman Bergson: or he would slay a whole t tribe...cause an earthquake or whatever
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): powerful entity
CB Axel: Sounds like good and evil weren't equal if Seth was able to kill and chop up Osiris. Isis was the powerful one, since she was able to bring Osiris back.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah
herman Bergson: I am still studyong on it...but the devil was on e the one hand not his equal like in other the Egyptian...
herman Bergson: Yes CB...maybe we might conclude that somehow homo sapiens still eventually believes in the good way of life
herman Bergson: Eventually good will win....
Max Chatnoir: So there is also a redeemer in the story.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): we will see
herman Bergson: you are somewhat skeptical about that Gemma?
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): whether good wil win out??
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): time will tell
herman Bergson: yes
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): sometimes in the past it has
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): sometimes not
herman Bergson: well...from an evolutionary point of view such a belief is understandable....
herman Bergson: good means survival..
herman Bergson: I guess you all ran out of bytes :-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yep
CB Axel: I think the evil is inside us and we just created the devil to take the heat off.
herman Bergson: SO...time to head for a nice weekend :-)
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): everyone wants to survive..why is there evil then?
CB Axel: Sometimes being evil helps you to survive.
herman Bergson: simple Beertje...:-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): the evil back in the day of seth was in everything else but us
herman Bergson: because I want to survive more eagerly than you I kill you so all the food is mine :-)
Max Chatnoir: I remember a story about a guy who studied komodo dragons.  What I remember is that the lizard attacked him and he didn't want to kill it, because it was so rare, so he didn't defend himself.  I guess he died.
Max Chatnoir: I don't know if that story is apocryphal or not.  I'll have to check it out.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Japanese have that outlook on life
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i think
herman Bergson: He'll certainly wil have died Max....
CB Axel: Nature can sometimes seem to turn against us. So nature can be seen as evil.
herman Bergson: a bite from a komodo varan is deadly
herman Bergson: the classic animistic point of view CB :-)
Stephen Xootfly: a quick infusion of antibiotics might save one. the deadliness comes from the bacteria.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it ws way back then
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i don't think nature can be evil
herman Bergson: indeed Stephen....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): now that we understand it no
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's just what it is
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
CB Axel: I don't either, Beertje, but ancients could and did.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
herman Bergson: that is what it now is about...the history of the devil....
herman Bergson: for us the devil is not in natural disasters anymore....
Stephen Xootfly: gotta run, must go teach. later all.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ah ok
CB Axel: No. Those are God's fault.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): bye
CB Axel: Bye, Stephen.
herman Bergson: although there stil seem to exist people who think that an earthquake is a punishment from god
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Stephen
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): some do
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): hope i can make it tuesday
herman Bergson: ok :-)
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
herman Bergson: Let me set you free ....
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok
herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-))
CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): see you all soon
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Gemma
Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
CB Axel: I hope you all have a nice weekend. See you Tuesday.
.: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): have a goodnight and till Tuesday
Max Chatnoir: see you all next week

Max Chatnoir: thanks, Herman

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