Wednesday, February 10, 2016

599: Some evolution of the Individual

What I try to achieve with this project is to obtain a kind of clear picture of the meaning of the concept “the individual”.

We take it so for granted that we are respected as an individual, that we may claim individual rights, freedom and property.

On the other hand, as soon as we claim that this is a real positive achievement and compare this with other cultures, which don’t support individualism,

in no time we’ll hear the objection that this is Eurocentric or Western thinking and values. Is this kind of cultural relativism justified?

As a working hypothesis I take the view, that individualism as it has evolved in Europe is an evolutionary step in the development of the mind.

It is rather dangerous to add in line with modern ideas like “We are our brain”, that this also relates to an evolutionary step in the development of the brain. Yet through the ages our genes have mutated.

If you value individualism and the individual, you then implicitly would be claiming that the Western brain is more evolved than the brains of people in other cultures.

But because we hardly have any idea how the mind is related to or generated by the brain and the equation BRAIN == MIND is questionable,

why couldn’t there be two lines of evolution, one of the brain and one of the mind?

Just imagine a complex machine and two operators. They both operate the same machine, but operator A gets significantly better results than operator B.

Then you would conclude that operator A is better than operator B. You could analyse how A and B operate the machine and thus discover the cause of the discrepancy.

A simple example from real life. Assume that all homo sapiens in this stage of his evolution have the same central nervous system and brain.

But we can see, that using that brain in one way is better than in another way or to say it in other words: a person with education has more chances of survival than one without education.

Thence you could come to the conclusion, that education contributes to or even influences the evolution of the mind.

One of the strong forces in how we use our brain is the WE versus THE OTHERS thinking.

Archeological findings proof, that this way of using our brain has a long history. Recently 10.000 years  old remains were discovered in Kenya.

A group of people, women, children, massacred. Crushed skulls, smashed knees, limbs, an arrowhead inside a skull.

You need little imagination to picture what must have happened 10.000 years ago…. it was US against THEM.

The diagram, which I presented you is completely based on this atavistic feeling. Just think of religious or tribal feelings……they intrinsically define THE OTHERS.

Up to the present day we see how all acts of terrorism are justified by claiming that THE OTHERS have to be killed.

And then there is Descartes, not defining his personal identity by contrasting it to THE OTHERS, but by simple reference to the consciousness of his own mind.

That is what this project is about: the hypothesis that consciousness of individuality is an evolutionary stage in evolution of the mind.

So let’s continue our research on this subject….

Thank you again for your attention….the floor is yours…

The Discussion

[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: interesting so you do agree then that evolution is still going on in humans
[13:19] herman Bergson: Take your time to think this over...:-)
[13:19] CB Axel: So, according to Descartes, everyone is the other. Even our own families, etc. °͜°
[13:19]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): This we and them thinking i think is a bit strange, after all we are all the same but I guess many dont think like that
[13:19] herman Bergson: of course evolution  is still going on Gemma....
[13:20] herman Bergson: No no CB
[13:20]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): On the other hand i have strong empathy for others in general as long they are kind to both me and others
[13:20] Wolfy (wolfy737): you were talking about US and OTHERS among the people...but what about an idea if there would not be any US or OTHERS but HUMANKIND and inferior SPECIES
[13:20] herman Bergson: From the Cartesian point of view there IS no other....
[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: seems to me as western thought progressed we just got into larger and larger and more horrible wars
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): back then it was tribes
[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: that is why the dada movement rejected western rationality entirely
[13:21] Wolfy (wolfy737): brain has every animal...but human mind is something special and not common to all
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): those bones were bodies attacked by another we tribe
[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: they said if the best you can give us is the horrors of WWI then the hell with you
[13:23] herman Bergson: WWII was also base don the US and THE OTHERS thinking.....
[13:23] herman Bergson: the pure race and the rest of the world....
[13:23] Wolfy (wolfy737): but I must absolutely agree with idea that the education - the "will to know" -as I call it myself in my works - gives an advantage to humankind
[13:23] herman Bergson: total collectivistic  situation
[13:24] Wolfy (wolfy737): but not all - as it calls - "races" are able to achieve the highest level of knowledge...
[13:24] Stranger Nightfire: and right now in this country we may be about to elect a vicious fascist as president, doesn't seem like we are doing such a great job of evolving
[13:24] herman Bergson: my point is that collectivism can't occur when we see ourselves as individuals...but that is the extreme point of view
[13:24]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): If i got hold of Trump i would immediately put him in the trash compactor
[13:25]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako) whispers: what an idiot that is!
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he is sure an example of oe who is an individual who can do and say what he wants
[13:25]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if he becomes president not only US but the entire world is at risk since us affect the rest of the world
[13:25] herman Bergson: There I agree with you, Stranger !!!!
[13:25] CB Axel: That would be nice, Herman, but I don't see that happening. As soon as the individual feels threatened, it seeks to band together with others who think the same.
[13:25] herman Bergson: That man is a danger to world peace...
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): agreed
[13:26]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:26] CB Axel: I don't know if we can completely pull ourselves away from tribal thinking.
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the centre will not allow it to happen
[13:26] herman Bergson: And if the American people elects him that people is too!
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i really don’t think it will
[13:26] CB Axel: I keep hoping that we can, but I'm pessimistic.
[13:26]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I see trump like Homer Simpson at the controls of their nuclear weapons
[13:26] Wolfy (wolfy737): is not Obama danger for the entire world as well?
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not me
[13:26]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): LALLALA CLICK PUSH KABOOOM BLAM
[13:27] herman Bergson: Trump is the ultimate example of the WE and the others thinking!!!!
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): where he is gaining ground is among many uneducated
[13:27]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:27] CB Axel: Perhaps, Bejiita, that is the next step in our evolution.
[13:27] Wolfy (wolfy737): the same I have noticed
[13:27]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I don’t get how people can support this bastard
[13:27] Wolfy (wolfy737): Obama+jews+niggers
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): because most of them are astards too
[13:27]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he is insane and full of shit
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bastards that is
[13:27] herman Bergson: What do you mean Wolfy???
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes wolfy??
[13:28] CB Axel: Because they are afraid and think Trump will keep them safe. They're wrong, but I think that's what they think.
[13:28]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): be safe from an idiot?
[13:28]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): They are really wrong then
[13:28] CB Axel: And our discussion has evolved into a US political talk.
[13:28] CB Axel: sigh
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:29] herman Bergson: Explain your "Obama+jews+niggers" plz, Wolfy..
[13:29] Wolfy (wolfy737): I mean that while true MAN pretends to be humanist and follows jewish orders - as called NWO the jews and niggers gets higher power over MANKIND meanwhile
[13:29] CB Axel: The people who back Trump are afraid of Muslims, socialists (even though they are socialists themselves), unemployment, high taxes... the list goes on.
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): jewish orders??
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): N>>????
[13:30] Wolfy (wolfy737): everybody knows that Obama is supported by jews who wish to own true MANKIND - NWO (new world order)
[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: well trying to wrap our head around that we are evolving into higher level rational beings kind of had to bring it up
[13:30]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm i guess so
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we dont use that language I hope
[13:30] herman Bergson: Do we have a Donald Trump in here????
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good question i think
[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: modern politics I mean
[13:30] herman Bergson: Guess you are a bit out of line here Wolfy..
[13:30] Wolfy (wolfy737): I do not care of Trump...I do care of human future...and Obama is the best weapon in jewish hands
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): unless we misunderstood
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good heavens guess we didn’t
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Obama a weapon in Jewish hands???????
[13:31] CB Axel: So you don't like Jews? I guess that's what you're saying.
[13:31] Wolfy (wolfy737): you began to talk about US and OTHERS and about knowledge and about politics
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he has been fighting with benny since he got in office
[13:31] herman Bergson: Sorry Wolfy..but  I think you need better arguments for your point of far you produce nonsense....
[13:32] herman Bergson: this is a philosophy class...
[13:32] Wolfy (wolfy737): is pretty hard to explain the ideas here by chat
[13:32] herman Bergson: we use facts and arguments for our statements....
[13:32] herman Bergson: it never has been otherwise here in class Wolfy....
[13:33] Wolfy (wolfy737): is it not philosophy to talk about humankind? about its unique brain and mind?
[13:33] herman Bergson: so..think twice before you say something
[13:33] Wolfy (wolfy737): ok... I am quiet from now
[13:33] herman Bergson: just a good advise...
[13:34] CB Axel: Yes, bigotry doesn't go over well here. °͜°
[13:34] herman Bergson: indeed it doesn’t...
[13:34] Wolfy (wolfy737): it is not about bigotry...omg
[13:34] herman Bergson: what does the word mean CB..:-))
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but that statement really was
[13:34] CB Axel: When you complain about Jews and niggers (a verboten word in the US) you are being bigoted.
[13:35] Wolfy (wolfy737): you are talking about brain and mind.... about the US and the OTHERS ... but using the wrong view by my opinion
[13:35] CB Axel: You are definitely being them against us.
[13:36] herman Bergson: in dutch Google translate it as "kwezelarij"...but I even do not understand the meaning of that obsolete dutch word....
[13:37] herman Bergson: but yet you are right CB :-))
[13:37] herman Bergson: Well...I think we all gained some new ideas after this debate....
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks the professor will edit the commentary for the blog
[13:38] herman Bergson: so...thank you all again for your participation :-)
[[13:38] CB Axel: Asterisks are our friends in editing. °͜°
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:38] herman Bergson: I will not edit a syllabi is as it is...
[[13:38] herman Bergson: I only will correct the typos...
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): see you next Tuesday I hope
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman & Class
[13:39] herman Bergson: Everyone here is responsible for his or her own remarks...
[13:39] CB Axel: I hope so, too, Gemma
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): get yourself together bergie
[13:39]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): anyway, lets dig deep into this
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
[13:40] herman Bergson: We will Bejiita :-)
[13:40]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Gemma :-)
[13:40] herman Bergson: Thank you all...class dismissed...

[13:40]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time

No comments:

Post a Comment