Saturday, January 12, 2019

751: The End of an Era...

"Thank you, Herman, for reminding me of the time line of humanity." This remark by CB escaped my attention during the actual discussion,
but while editing the text of Tuesday for posting on our blog, I ran into it again and said "You're welcome CB" :-)
The apparently simple remark refers to a number of interesting aspects of our existence,
Firstly that we are easily inclined to believe that when things don't change during our own lifetime, mankind is hopelessly lost.
Secondly,  it bring to our attention that we have to keep in mind that we are somewhere on the timeline of history.
For understanding our existence not our own lifespan, but history should be our horizon.
And thirdly, when we take history as our horizon we discover remarkable things. The most important one is the speed of developments.
Only since 1650 science took over from religion and all kinds of superstition to describe the world we live in.
Before that time nothing had really changed for tens of thousands of years. And now our world view has fundamentally changed in hardly 400 years.
The Industrial revolution speeded up the changes even more and when you look at historical developments and changes today, they happen within decennnia.
The Wiener Kreis (Vienna Circle) was in that sense a kind of revolution in philosophy. It is around 1930. 
The Logical Positivists, like Carnap and Wittgenstein, proscribed metaphysics and propagated a strict empiricism. Existential questions became scientific questions.
Literature often mirrors the questions of its time. The book "The Man Without Qualities" is an unfinished modernist novel in three volumes, by the late Austrian writer Robert Musil. (1943+)
It is typically considered to be one of the most significant novels of the twentieth century. The theme of the book is what it means to be human in a scientific age. 
How should we live, if we can only believe our senses, if we know ourselves only as science knows us, 
if all generalizations and talk about moral and aesthetic values are meaningless, as Wittgenstein says? 
Musil recognizes that the religious and other metaphysical categories no longer satisfy. But what should come in its place? 
Unlike many other contemporaries, Musil was not anti-scientific. But in the literature the boundaries of rationalism could be examined.
For him, the core problem was that the soul could not be replaced by logic. The pursuit of objectivity and the need to give meaning to life were irreconcilable.
Although you may never have heard of this writer, the themes of Musil is recognizable and still current.
In the year 1924, the year that Kafka died, another writer celebrated his 35th birthday in a prison cell in Landberg am Lech.
The title of his book was "Mein Kampf"  and the name of the author was Adolf Hitler. 

His book contained all anti-semitic and racist and racial ideas of the first half of the 20th century, which we have encountered in Vienna in the 1920s.
And thus there emerged a world of before World War II and one of after World War II.
Thank you for your attention.... ^_^

The Discussion

[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:25] CB Axel: So racism survived into the second half of the century but our souls didn't?
[13:25] herman Bergson: Today I found an audio book version of Mein Kampf on the internet..... 19 hours of reading :-)
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: ciska
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:26] herman Bergson: I don't hope so CB :-)
[13:26] herman Bergson: Bu ton the other hand....I don't have a soul at all actually :-))
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I thought a lot about last week thinking how much the internet and social media groups like sl have changed our views
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and still wonder if new philosophical thinking wil come out of it
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): including new sociology as i said last week
[13:27] herman Bergson: Interesting.....
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): New ways of looking at the mind , brain and thoughts
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very much possible
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I really think so
[13:28] herman Bergson: dociology won't just faded ....
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): change
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fade will come back
[13:28] CB Axel: The Philosophy of Facebook?
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): something like that cb
[13:28] herman Bergson: We are mor interested in psychology and neuro sciences these days
[13:28] CB Axel: I'm not sure I could get behind that.
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not quiet
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): quite
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it has many people examining it
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not just facebook
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that may fade too
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but the new way of communicating
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no
[13:29] herman Bergson: To be honest....I have no idea what the popular themes are in present day academic debates
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): interacting
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and experiencing
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): virtual reality
[13:30] herman Bergson: beware.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: do not confuse psychology and philosophy
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): AI
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no i am not
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we will see
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): if we live long enough
[13:31] herman Bergson: things like FB and virtual reality like SL are interesting from a psychological point of view mainly
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes but i honestly believe it is also affecting philosophical thinking
[13:31] roos Gartner is online.
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): looking at the world and all it involves
[13:32] herman Bergson: Well...the existential questions I mentioned in todays lecture are still hot issues today too
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): including space travel and possible change of living
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes even more so Herman
[13:33] herman Bergson: If there are no metaphysical or religious answers...what answers do we have science the answer?
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): those will be there and more questions as usual
[13:34] herman Bergson: what are we....just a glitch of an evolutionary process?
[13:34] CB Axel: I don't know that science will ever answer questions like "why are we here?" Unless science shows that we are an experiment started by those we could call Extra Terrestrials.
[13:34] herman Bergson: Yes CB....
[13:34] herman Bergson: as I was wondering myself these days.....
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ID (Intelligent Design) you mean?
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): one theory
[13:35] herman Bergson: The Christians have their god....he is all mighty, all perfect, all knowing, all mercifull and so on....
[13:35] herman Bergson: I just wondered...if he is like that...WHY did he create man?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the problem with the ID theory is who created the ID aliens then?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): infinite chain
[13:36] CB Axel: Maybe we are AI that has become self-aware and are turning against our creators.
[13:36] herman Bergson: And if he had a reason...why did he create an imperfect product?
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the eternal question
[13:36] CB Axel: I wonder those things, too, Herman.
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it can be a she
[13:37] CB Axel: It's one of the reasons I began to question and the ultimately reject Christianity.
[13:37] herman Bergson: Makes no difference Beertje...or only that I then hate women now :-)
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): sighs
[13:38] herman Bergson: I understand CB...this whole Genesis story makes no sense
[13:38] herman Bergson: and then....when you yet believe all that....
[13:38] herman Bergson: this god becomes a mass murdered....
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:38] CB Axel: I've heard Christians say that God created us so we could honor him and sing praises to him.
[13:39] CB Axel: Seems self-centered to me.
[13:39] herman Bergson: hundreds of Egyptian soldiers in the Red sea.....30.000 Philistines by his buddy Samson
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): one thougth
[13:39] CB Axel: OMG! God is like Trump!!
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg lol
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:39] herman Bergson: Thousands of inhabitants of Jericho....
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in reality religion seems mostly be to opress others, esp women so that the men can stay in power
[13:39] CB Axel: No wonder so many Evangelicals like Trump.
[13:39] CB Axel: I agree, Bejiita.
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he is not evangelical
[13:40] herman Bergson: Today he would be indicted before a n International Court of Justice for war crimes
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks has no religion at all
[13:40] CB Axel: And, yes, Herman. If Christians think life is so precious, why does their god keep killing so many?
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he probably doesn't even have a brain
[13:40] herman Bergson: Trump has no religion but the Money Belief
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks that is true
[13:40] CB Axel: Trump is not an evangelical, but those that are back him.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree cb
[13:41] herman Bergson: amazing.....
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think some of those are reevaluating him too
[13:41] CB Axel: I'm fed up with Trump and God. Yet another similarity.
[13:41] herman Bergson: T lies, has affairs and the evangelicals pardon him for all that
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): IN GOD WE TRUST!(drops a horde of bombs from a jet) BLAM BLAM!
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and similar things
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some evanglicals are also progressive
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): justify murder with that phrase
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): over and over
[13:42] herman Bergson: But one thing is clear.....
[13:42] herman Bergson: we inherited the existential questions from the 20th century
[13:43] herman Bergson: and we have not yet found a real answer to them
[13:43] CB Axel: True, Herman. When we had no one but God to blame for the state of our lives there were no questions.
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hmmm
[13:43] herman Bergson: Indeed CB...God is a nice scapegoat :-)
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): isn't the 21 century too young for answers?
[13:44] CB Axel: And the evangelicals I'm talking about are the ones like Pence who want to bring about Armageddon so they're be raptured up the Heaven/
[13:44] CB Axel: .
[13:44] herman Bergson: Well...maybe 2019 might bring us something, Beertje :-))
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully it will
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh he is something else
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope htere is never an impeachment if we are left with him!!!!!!
[13:45] herman Bergson: That was the trick Gemma
[13:45] herman Bergson: Pence was trump's life insurance....
[13:45] CB Axel: Yeah. We have to get them both in jail.
[13:45] herman Bergson: Sending him away would leave you with much worse....Pence
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): jail may well come after he is out of office
[13:46] herman Bergson: Might be quite probable indeed
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right pence is worse in many ways
[13:47] CB Axel: Yeah. We may have to wait out Trump's full term, get them thrown out of office, and then throw them in jail when he can't pardon himself and everyone else involved.
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok i hve to go get the fishing ready!!!
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right cb
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fingers crossed
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu Gemma
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Gemma
[13:48] herman Bergson: Well...we have reached a breaking point in the 20th century with the rise of Hitler and the 21st Century we may have reached a same point in February of March when the Mueller report willl be published
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why not throw him in that asylum/jail right now
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he have already caused enough mess
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least WW3 didn't come
[13:48] CB Axel: If we try to jail him while he's still president, he'll pardon himself and get right out again.
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): eee ok
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): can he do that?
[13:49] CB Axel: Some people think so.
[13:49] herman Bergson: hehe....good plan CB :-)
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like getting away with anything?
[13:49] herman Bergson: Let me try to get away too .....Class dismissed ^_^
[13:50] herman Bergson: Thank you all again :-))
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :) have a nice evening Herman
[13:50] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:50] herman Bergson: You too Beertje :-)
[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman    sorry for being late in my mind its Wednesday today...
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu soon all
[13:50] CB Axel: See you all next week.
[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: take care everyone
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:50] herman Bergson: Interesting Ciska :-)
[13:50] roos Gartner is offline.
[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: yes I had a hell of a week so far hahahah
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you are a bit older than you think Ciska
[13:51] herman Bergson: Poor you, Ciska...

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