Thursday, January 17, 2019

752: Prelude to a New Era.......

The Black Thursday crash of the Exchange on October 24, 1929, was one of the signs on the wall, that there was something wrong with the world.
After an enormous speedy development in many fields of physics, which led to all kinds of material prosperity, the optimism seemed to come to a halt.

A man who expressed his pessimism in several books was Sigmund Freud (1856 - 1939). In "Zukunft einer Illusion / The Future of an Illusion" (1927), he criticized organized religion as a collective neurosis. 
Freud, an avowed atheist, argued that religion has tamed asocial instincts and created a sense of community around a shared set of beliefs, thus helping a civilization. 
Yet at the same time, organized religion exacts an enormous psychological cost on the individual by making him or her perpetually subordinate to the primal father figure embodied by God.
In 1930 another book by Freud  about the relationship between psychology and culture appeared. 
With the war, the famine in Austria and the uprisings and mega-inflation in Germany still fresh in memory, 
now capitalism in the United States seemed to collapse and Hitler's popularity was growing. 
Wherever you looked, the title, "Civilization and Its Discontents / Das Unbehagen in der Kultur", was consisting with the facts! 
Freud enumerates what he sees as the fundamental tensions between civilization and the individual. 
The primary friction, he asserts, stems from the individual's quest for instinctive freedom and civilization's contrary demand for conformity and repression of instincts. 
Freud states that when any situation that is desired by the pleasure principle is prolonged, it creates a feeling of mild contentment. 
Many of humankind's primitive instincts, for example, the desire to kill and the insatiable craving for sexual gratification, are clearly harmful to the well-being of a human community. 
As a result, civilization creates laws that prohibit killing, rape, and adultery, and it implements severe punishments if these rules are broken. 
Thus our possibilities for happiness are restricted by the law. It is a fundamental paradox of civilization:
it is a tool we have created to protect ourselves from unhappiness, and yet it is our largest source of unhappiness. 
People become neurotic because they cannot tolerate the frustration which society imposes in the service of its cultural ideals. 
Freud points out that advances in science and technology have been, at best, a mixed blessing for human happiness. 
He asks what society is for, if not to satisfy the pleasure principle, but concedes that as well as pursuing happiness, 
civilization must also compromise happiness in order to fulfill its primary goal of bringing individuals
into peaceful relationship with one another, which it does by making them subject to a higher, communal authority.
He was not the only one, who addressed the issue of uneasiness with western civilization.
It was in those years, not in the least due to the rise of psychology, that the emphasis and focus was on the Individual.
This focus we certainly have inherited form the 20th century. Coincidentally there was an article in my morning newspaper today. The subject was depression:
-QUOTE- "In my opinion, depression is not something that comes from the outside, but from the inside: 
we all participate in a lifestyle that pushes us in the wrong direction, in a culture that is depressogene, as I call it.
We live in an ultra-liberal time. Since the sixties we have placed the individual and his egoism more and more on the throne, 
our economic system is based on this, first we have liberated ourselves and then the market. It now has us by our throat. 
Not that we are potential consumers, no, our definition of the good life is being controlled by it,
and so it seems as if we have become swaying islands that tend very quickly to depression. " -END QUOTE- Bert van den Bergh, Trouw 15 jan 2019 -
-QUOTE- "Half of all mental illness begins by the age of 14, but most cases go undetected and untreated.
In terms of the burden of the disease among adolescents, depression is the third leading cause. 
Suicide is the second leading cause of death among 15-29-year-olds. -END QUOTE-
This info comes from the World Health Organization...
Thank you for your attention again....

The Discussion
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:22] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:23] herman Bergson: In other words....the focus on individualism that was created in the 20th century, is a central issue today....
[13:24] herman Bergson: You can notice this in the decay of group phenomena like religions
[13:24] herman Bergson: Being part of such a collective has lost its meaning
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess so
[13:25] herman Bergson: The counterpart is frantically clinging to a group under a leader and denying your individuality
[13:25] Al Michigan: i thought islam is very young at hearth... and very popular among far left young adults...
[13:25] herman Bergson: The 'Strong Leader' effect
[13:26] herman Bergson: Islam doesn't  know individuality
[13:27] Al Michigan: No?
[13:27] CB Axel: No religion knows individuality. Or is there one that does?
[13:27] herman Bergson: I agree CB
[13:27] Al Michigan: i thought... the Islam is very much individualistic, because Allah is with you always.... but far away... in the end it s only between you and Allah! Is what the Qoran states very clearly
[13:28] Al Michigan: no one can tell you what Allah have to say!
[13:28] herman Bergson: the individual is completely subjected to the beliefs of the religion
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): brainwashing
[13:28] CB Axel: Then why do so many Muslims think women have to be covered? Don't women get to be individuals?
[13:29] CB Axel: And why can't Muslims eat pork or drink alcohol?
[13:29] Al Michigan: i do not know why they think that because in the Koran it s only stated for men to be covered
[13:29] CB Axel: And you must pray 5 times a day.
[13:29] herman Bergson: If that were true Al, why then are there so many imams, who tell you what Allah meant.....or Catholic priests or referents..or gurus?
[13:30] Al Michigan: well, the pork thing is weird, because you see, if you open up a pig, it smells like a human, but if you cut open another animal it doesn't t, so possibly they do not want to be cannibals....
[13:30] Al Michigan: well, that is so nice, because all the imams, are quite free...
[13:30] Al Michigan: if you know the Koran , you are allowed to say you are an imam
[13:30] Al Michigan: and the qoran is a book with a begin and an end
[13:31] Al Michigan: i know the Koran , i wouldn't t dare to call myself an imam... but still
[13:31] CB Axel: But when they say don't eat pork, they're still telling you what to do.
[13:31] Al Michigan: i see so much freedom
[13:31] herman Bergson: What is your point in this , Al ?
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): issue with islam is the image it has as a violent and woman  repressing religion
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but don't think the "original" islam is like that at all
[13:31] Al Michigan: but wait, it also said, that if there is no other way, there is the greater good and the smaller evil, also it states that Allah doesn t want your live make miserably
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some sick minds have so to say ruined it
[13:32] CB Axel: It represses pork eaters, too.
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hasn't any book a beginning and and end?
[13:32] CB Axel:  °͜°
[13:32] Al Michigan: so not eating pork is a piece off like going to church, but it s not mandatory.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Thought so too Beertje
[13:33] herman Bergson: What is your point in relation to individuality, Al?
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all religions have their own rules
[13:33] CB Axel: And I don't mind if religions have their own rules as long as they don't expect me to live by those rules.
[13:34] Al Michigan: if islam is an oppressive religion, so is capitalism, or socialism or feminism, especially today you can also consider globalism as a religion, we have now almost 100 year off ppl fighting for the globalist ideas
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same here and as long they don't blow me up or start a war here
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i don't care
[13:34] Al Michigan: and 100 years ppl figthing for the socialist affairs, it is still the  same doctrines the same fight, like the crusades 
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): don't do that or force your religion on me and i don't care
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but im not religious at all
[13:35] herman Bergson: Think we are going off topic too much now :-)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i live by science and provable facts
[13:35] CB Axel: But a government chosen by the people is better than a religion forced on us.
[13:35] Al Michigan: yes, and that s why the islam says to not make ppl to be moslim if they do not want to, that s what the Koran says
[13:35] herman Bergson: What we are discussing is what we inherited from the 20th century....
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well that s true i guess for sure
[13:35] herman Bergson: and the observation is....the focus on the individual..
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa
[13:36] Al Michigan: we inherited globalists, and frankforter schule
[13:36] CB Axel: Right. The 20th century. Let's get out of the 1st century. :-)
[13:36] Al Michigan: we inherited the BIS bank
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree
[13:36] CB Axel: Individual rights are fine until they take away the rights of others.
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes CB
[13:37] CB Axel: I'm just not sure if people know any more what happiness is or how to get it.
[13:37] Al Michigan: all identitarian policies are inherited as well from the last century, they are 100 years old!
[13:37] CB Axel: I don't understand how killing leads to happiness.
[13:37] Al Michigan: Hitler introduced them! Stalin loved therm!
[13:38] Al Michigan: The new left are now use this policies to white men!
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wonders about that too CB
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not logical at all
[13:38] CB Axel: And sex without caring for the other person is just an animal act. It leads to momentary pleasure and not real happiness.
[13:38] Al Michigan: nothing good came from the last century,.....
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but they say serial killers have a gene defect
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agrees on that too CB
[13:38] herman Bergson: Even the atom bomb came from it, Al
[13:39] CB Axel: Identity politics have been around forever. We have always identified with one group or another: family, tribe, race, etc.
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if i have sex with someone i want it to at least be a close friend, otherwise ill just use the person as a object without feelings, could not do a such thing
[13:39] Al Michigan: yeah it s all bad, what about the Fukushima reactors... how corruption made these safe reactors super dangerous installations that had to go up!
[13:39] Al Michigan: and they did
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): would not feel right at all
[13:39] Al Michigan: just beause some ppl wanted an extra profit
[13:40] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is offline.
[13:41] herman Bergson: That is a correct example of the ultra-liberalism and the focus on the individual wellbeing of certain people...
[13:41] herman Bergson: It all is about enriching yourself with no eye for the social context you live in
[13:41] Al Michigan: yeah!
[13:42] herman Bergson: That is present day individualism and egoism...sitting on the throne, as the quote said
[13:43] CB Axel: Yes. The "I've got mine" attitude I've mentioned before.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): greed basically
[13:44] herman Bergson: Like I get the impression that there is emerging a picture of a person who foresees huge profits in Russia and does everything to protect this perspective
[13:44] herman Bergson: after he quits his present job
[13:44] CB Axel: The "I have health care, so everything is good," and "My kids go to good schools, so why should I care about other schools?" and "I have a retirement plan, so who cares if others are unable to save any money."
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ego syndrome
[13:45] herman Bergson: Yes CB....
[13:46] CB Axel: Yes, let the rest of the country be destroyed as long as my businesses do well.
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like that indeed
[13:46] herman Bergson: like companies think that their only goal is to maximize profits and don't feel a social responsibility regarding their workers
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we see that with companies destroying nature everywhere
[13:46] CB Axel: Or the environment.
[13:46] CB Axel: Right, Bejiita.
[13:46] herman Bergson: indeed
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): rainforests cut down ect all for profit
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): polluting rivers with cyanide and acid ect
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they dot care about that as long money flows into their tax free bank accounts
[13:47] Al Michigan: yeah, like the ultra rich, that do not realize that money needs to flow, like blood in a body, if leaches take out the blood, the cow dies in the end, and it s the same with economy, the money MUST flow, otherwise a society cannot afford too much millionaires, and certainly not billionaires, trillionaires are deadly, and are causing our stagnation in the west, that you can see now on every field.
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or that others die
[13:48] Al Michigan: yeah , the corporatists!
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one of the worst examples of this is the Bophal disaster, the plant was not economical so they didn't do critical maintenance even they knew how dangerous the chemicals were and that there was an entire city nearby
[13:48] Al Michigan: but how should it be done right?
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they don't care at all about those people but let the accident happen
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): result was the worlds worst industrial disaster
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): should never have happened
[13:49] herman Bergson: That was in India, wasn't it, Bejiita?
[13:49] Al Michigan: well it was not the worst, but it was bad.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and all because the plant owners in USA only cared about profit
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they they tried to blame it on sabotage
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then
[13:50] herman Bergson: friends
[13:50] Al Michigan: yeah they tried to wriggle out off that... yeah
[13:50] herman Bergson: Again we almost saved the world another time.....
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): killing 10000s of people
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and i cant type at all today for some reason
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well well
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): another nice class
[13:50] herman Bergson: SO...let's prepare for the next time next Thursday :-)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): s
[13:50] herman Bergson: May I thank you again for your particiption :-)
[13:51] Al Michigan: participation?
[13:51] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....^_^
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you :)
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu thursday
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you!
[13:51] herman Bergson: That isn't an English word, Al?
[13:52] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[[13:52] bergfrau Apfelbaum: very interesting, as always

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