Thursday, October 17, 2019

805: The Narcissist......

Let's begin with clarifying what is meant by narcisme. It is a concept of the psychoanalytical theory. 
Narcissism is rooted in deprivation and unmet need, is a complex amalgam of grandiosity and fragile self-esteem, of fantasized omnipotence coupled with feelings of inferiority, 
of emotional self-sufficiency yoked to raging hunger for acclaim, admiration, It is the case, for instance, when someone calls himself a stable genius with great and unmatched wisdom.
A man who had a keen eye for what was happening in the 1970 was Robert Christopher Lasch (1932 – 1994), an American historian, moralist, and social critic who was a history professor at the University of Rochester.
Lasch's most famous work, "The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in an Age of Diminishing Expectations " (1979), became an unexpected bestseller.
In the Preface he writes: "This book, ..., describes a way of life that is dying - the culture of competitive individualism, 
which in its decadence has carried the logic of individualism to the extreme of a war of all against all, the pursuit of happiness to the dead end of narcissistic preoccupation with the self. (...)
Economic man himself has given way to the psychological man of our time - the final product of bourgeois individualism."
First of all he excoriates the consciousness movement. Because people have no hope of improving their lives in an essential way, 
they have convinced themselves that it is about psychological improvement: coming into contact with your feelings, 
eating natural food, taking ballet or belly dance lessons, immersing yourself in the wisdoms of the East, jogging, overcoming the "fear of pleasure". 
Whenever you can't coop with life, there is psycho-therapy. Therapy has become the successor of religion. 
The new narcism means that people are more interested in personal change than in political change. 
So we all go to encounter groups, all kinds of consciousness training. In a narcissist society it is about the creation of celebrities of the "famous to be famous" type, 
the degeneration of sport into commercialized entertainment instead of heroic effort; the permissiveness in schools and courts, 
where the need for 'personal development' is put above old-fashioned virtues of knowledge acquisition and punishment.

Lasch’s bestseller The Culture of Narcissism had, beyond doubt, a significant impact. It was even read in the White House, when Jimmy Carter was president.

Today it is not only still frequently taught and referenced, there are also still empirical studies conducted which try to verify Lasch’s assertion of the preponderance of the narcissistic personality. 
For the assertion of the preponderance of the narcissistic personality we don't need to do much empirical research these days.
Did this narcism of the Me Decade of the 1979s-1980s become our legacy? Are we still focused on our belly button?
A concluding observation. The post-war period till the 1970s was a time of cooperation and a sense of social solidarity.
Due to the increasing welfare and prosperity this disappeared and shifted, also due to strong neo-liberalism, to the Me decade, to the narcissist individual.
However, the greed, self-indulgence and arrogance of those, who we could call the elites, is criticized more and more. There always is hope for a better world....

Thank you for your attention....
The Discussion

[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:21] herman Bergson: Do  you think this preoccupation with the self and self deployment is still dominant, or is it just materialistic greed?
[13:21] herman Bergson: development, I meant
[13:21] herman Bergson: Look for instance at the phenomenon of social media
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and everyone bombing out selfies and chasing likes
[13:22] herman Bergson: That  looks like narcissism
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats narcissism Id say indeed
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): LOOOK AT ME LOOK AT MEE LOOOK AT MEEE CLICK CLICK CLICK!
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sometimes even going so far as falling of a cliff and dies
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): while taking selfies
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that's stupid
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (sighs)
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sure I can take one now and then but then I try show something meaningful that I do at moment
[13:24] herman Bergson: Do we live in a world of extreme individualism?
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and not just bombing out omages for likes
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): images
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes I think so Herman
[13:26] CB Axel: I agree to a certain extent. I still see some individuals getting together for good causes.
[13:27] herman Bergson: I was  thinking of the young people demonstrating against climate change in a world wide action
[13:27] herman Bergson: Organized by means of social media, but a show of solidarity
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what about the world leaders?
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): aren't they narcissist?
[13:29] herman Bergson: More concerned about their personal position than about the people, you sometimes see
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): way too often
[13:30] CB Axel: Some leaders are narcissists, but I don't think all are.
[13:30] herman Bergson: well...we could make a list...
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a leader should lead his people and take care for them
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they use the people for own benefit
[13:30] herman Bergson: Orban (Hungary) , Kim jung un, Erdogan, Trump.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: Johnson (UK)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): are just trying to kill of their people to gain own power, they don't care if everyone dies in the process as long they gain on it
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): awful
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they don't give a shit about the people just thir own egos
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and money
[13:31] CB Axel: We (at least in the US) keep electing politicians when we need to elect statesmen who want to make a better city, state, country and not just a better place for themselves.
[13:31] herman Bergson: Ahh forgot Putin ^_^
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and did it work CB?
[13:32] herman Bergson: not when you elect politicians, Beertje
[13:33] CB Axel: It can't work as long as voters look at who's "electable" as opposed to looking at what policies the candidates have and how they mean to implement them.
[13:33] herman Bergson: But there are a few people in the US with a spine....
[13:33] herman Bergson: They are testifying now....
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yonokovich, Fiona Hill....such people
[13:33] CB Axel: No one ever seemed to care about what policies Trump wanted to carry out.
[13:34] CB Axel: Except for building a stupid wall and having Mexico pay for it, he had no policies.
[13:34] CB Axel: Yes, Herman, the rats are starting to flee the sinking ship.
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and spreading his shit on twitter
[13:34] herman Bergson: His only policy its to do whatever is needed to get reelected
[13:35] CB Axel: Twitter is not a policy.
[13:36] CB Axel: I heard some dumb ass on a radio call-in show today have the nerve to say that no Democrats have any policies and that he'll vote for Trump because Trump at least has been getting stuff done.
[13:36] CB Axel: What a moron!
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but I guess that lot's of people think
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seriously
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes he the rich from taxes....abolish a lot of environmental protection measures etc
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes he have goten a lot of BAD stuff done
[13:37] CB Axel: And reporters will say, "We asked Trump for his policies, but he'd never answer their questions."
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ow:)
[13:37] herman Bergson smiles
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): throw hon in the amazon fires
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): him
[13:38] herman Bergson: waterboarding perhaps?
[13:38] CB Axel: And then point out that he didn't answer the question and that he has no policies.
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): problem solved
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or maybe not
[13:38] CB Axel: If I typed here what I'd like to do to Trump, I'd be arrested.
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well id want to se Trump in an insane asylum and the key thrown away and door welded shut all around
[13:39] CB Axel: You're too kind, Bejiita. :)
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes CB, your only weapon is not to vote on him
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and sink that asylum in marianers trench
[13:39] herman Bergson: Bejiita ...this is a philosophy class not a slaughter house!
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha
[13:39] CB Axel: I try to convince others not to vote for him, too.
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the next president has a lot to do, to fix what trump has destroid
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its Halloween soon Herman!
[13:40] CB Axel: I think Warren is the person to do it.
[13:40] herman Bergson: I hope so too CB
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed
[13:40] herman Bergson: Not those old men
[13:40] CB Axel: She has plans and except for one time she hasn't tried arguing with Trump.
[13:41] CB Axel: She just lets him rave away and she sticks to her own message.
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): is she strong enough?
[13:41] herman Bergson: He is already becoming scared of her
[13:41] CB Axel: I heard her speak and answer questions in Des Moines a few weeks ago and became ever more impressed with her.
[13:42] herman Bergson: But I guess we are off our topic of today far enough to come to a conclusion ^_^
[13:42] CONNIE Eichel is online.
[13:42] CB Axel: My fear is that she's not enough of a dominant personality to attract a lot of voters. :(
[13:42] CB Axel: No we haven't. I'm trying to say that Warren is not a narcissist! LOL
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i mean is she strong enough to beat a narcist?
[13:43] herman Bergson: Indeed a question, CB....I wonder too
[13:43] CB Axel: See. That's on topic.
[13:43] herman Bergson: But she can grow
[13:43] herman Bergson: Good arguments and hard evidence can even tackle a bully
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a narcissist doesn't listen to anyone
[13:44] herman Bergson: And maybe she even won't need to do this....
[13:44] CB Axel: I hope so, Herman, but I'm afraid that people don't care about good arguments and only care about stupid fights and Twitter wars.
[13:45] CB Axel: They don't look at substance. Only an image.
[13:45] herman Bergson: We have no idea what the outcome will be of the impeachment procedure....but the evidence against Mr. T. is growing  and growing
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:45] CB Axel: Yeah. Even if he isn't removed from office people may start to see him as the grifter and mob boss that he is.
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): which they should since longhave realized
[13:45] herman Bergson: Yes....
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I realized this first time I heard his brawling 6 months before the president elections
[13:46] CB Axel: I've known it since the early '80's.
[13:46] CB Axel: I've hated him since before it was cool. :)
[13:47] herman Bergson: youu see....there still is hope...!
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): .)
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:47] herman Bergson: So...thank you all again for your participation :-)
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and the rest of your list Herman?
[13:47] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:47] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): now im gonna burn some more hours and then sleep
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what shall we do with them?
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye bejiita:)
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fire
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu all!
[13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and Class!! love being here
[13:48] herman Bergson: Happy burning Bejiita
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

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