Wednesday, February 3, 2021

899: The New Approach....

 In the previous lecture, we took stock and are now trying to develop a new vision. So the question is how to proceed. 

Which path could we take? This path will be described here primarily from a European perspective. In addition, we can see to what extent the United States could follow the same path. 


Let's start with the fact that the liberalization of our lives had positive consequences. Overall, we are healthier, 


more independent, more liberal, better educated, more entrepreneurial and more democratic than half a century ago. 


At the same time, the reality of everyday life shows that we still want to be part of a community, help our fellow human beings and contribute to a better society. 


Consequently, we face two major challenges in the search for a new order of living together. 


The first is how we find an acceptable balance between the exercise of coercion and state power on the one hand and celebrating individual freedom on the other. 


The value of the latter is indisputable, but we realize that the deployment of state power is bitterly needed in certain situations if only to protect those freedoms. 


The second challenge involves finding an acceptable balance between Competition on the one hand and Cooperation on the other. 


We have seen that both tendencies are part of human nature and that the absolutizing of one tendency is therefore nonsensical. 


Combining these two choices makes it clear that we can, in principle, organize living together in four ways, depending on whether one puts the emphasis on coercion or freedom and whether one puts cooperation or competition first. 


The diagram behind me lists these possibilities with a single keyword. 


We immediately see why classical forms of socialism and liberalism are mutually exclusive. 


Old socialism, while emphasizing the element of cooperation and community building, believes that it requires the power of a strong state. 


Ancient liberalism advocates individual freedoms but believes that this always requires competition and market forces. 


Both philosophies now seem outdated to me, precisely because of the positive developments that have taken place over the past half-century. 


A lot has already been said about the third philosophy. As a combination of state coercion and competition, New Public Management will not help us much either. 


This leaves only one working method that can be used to tackle current problems in a credible way.


This is referred to in the diagram at the end as a cooperative working method, a management philosophy that mainly concerns the voluntary cooperation of social actors. 


Many will reject such an arrangement of coexistence as utopian, but I personally believe that it fits well with the specific nature of Homo Sapiens.


Thank you for your attention again...



MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Gabriel van den Brink:"Ruw Ontwaken uit een Neoliberale Droom",, 2020


The Discussion


[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:28] Laila Schuman: lobbyists basically bribe decision makers.... money seems to be...

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well seems to be the only good solution to me too among those 4

[13:28] Laila Schuman: the root of all quote a famous source

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): freedom + cooperation = good

[13:29] herman Bergson: I agree Bejiita :-)

[13:29] CB Axel: The problem is, as I see it, is that when people have freedom they start competing.

[13:29] herman Bergson: We really have to drop these capitalistic drives...

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): problem is the greed

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the MORE MORE MORE syndrome

[13:30] Laila Schuman: agree

[13:30] CB Axel: They'll cooperate up to a point, but they always seem to want to get ahead of others.

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): competition is a basic drive for us too i guess

[13:30] herman Bergson: Competing hasnt to be a problem.....the balance  between competing and cooperation is

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why would we othervise have sports

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and contests

[13:31] herman Bergson: yes Bejiita

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but when that bleed into the markets we have a problem

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the Status issue

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): who have the most and the best

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): most

[13:32] herman Bergson: Well..brings to my mind Reddit....screwing the hedgefunds.....

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe its sooo right! (i guess)

[13:32] herman Bergson: Hedgefunds are the cancer of capitalism in my opinion

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they give back to those making money on others missfortune

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i don't know really how i should set into it

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bad thing, or good thing?

[13:33] herman Bergson: they do nothing...just manipulating what enrich the rich...

[13:33] Laila Schuman: Capitalism encourages presenting certain qualities as preferable... to make MONEY.... but people take those "goals' to heart...

[13:33] Laila Schuman: manipulation

[13:33] herman Bergson: not a single positive contribution to society

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the crazy thing is indeed how u can outside of a buisness itself make them more money

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when ur not even working there

[13:34] CB Axel: Investing in the stock market gives companies money to use for research and development, but there do need to be regulations.

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its like i would boost salaries at say IBM while as now i work in a golf equipment company

[13:34] herman Bergson: Stockmarket is ok to me....

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and have nothing to do with IBM

[13:35] herman Bergson: but what hedgefunds do by going Short has nothing to do with creating money for R&D

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): up to a point stock market is ok i guess but the runaways

[13:35] CB Axel: True. We do need regulations.

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and all profit to shareholders instead of the workers

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it goes overboard that's the issue

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with the stock market

[13:36] CB Axel: Every regulation has been put there because a bad actor has taken advantage of someone else.

[13:36] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is offline.

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like a runaway chernobyl reaactor

[13:36] herman Bergson: So in next lectures I'll going to elaborate on what cooperative thinking means....

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BOOOOOOOM WOOOOSHH

[13:36] CB Axel: But the money people complain that there are too many regulations.

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and then it crashes and everyone lose their work

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like in 2008

[13:36] CB Axel: And as soon as a regulation is removed, they go back to their old ways and start screwing people over.

[13:37] Lai Fallen (laila.streeter) is offline.

[13:37] herman Bergson: S has happened indeed CB

[13:37] herman Bergson: As

[13:37] herman Bergson: Nothing has changed since 2008  in the financial markets

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they still want MORE and MORE

[13:37] Lai Fallen (laila.streeter) is online.

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no limit

[13:37] herman Bergson: theyy still are totally alienated from the real economy

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that is the issue

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): inded

[13:38] herman Bergson: here is an extra e, Bejiita :-))

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the real economy is i guess the REAL sales by those working at the specific companies

[13:38] herman Bergson: indeed :-))

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): while stock market is based on external speculation

[13:39] herman Bergson: indeed

[13:39] theo Velde is offline.

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): people not even working on that company or having any knowledge about its products

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): can stil alter its value

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just by buying and selling shares

[13:40] herman Bergson: I loved the GameStop action...

[13:40] Laila Schuman: hee hee

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa it was a rightful thing right

[13:40] herman Bergson: One hedgefund list 6 billion dollars by it :-)

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because making money on missfortune of others is not nice

[13:41] CB Axel: Yeah. My heart bleeds for them. NOT!

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and thats whaty they relvolted against as i get it

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the lower the company value the more money that got from the shares

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): don't remember the name of this practice

[13:41] CB Axel: All the Gamestop guys did was the same thing hedgefund managers do every day.

[13:42] herman Bergson: And they got a piece of their own cake this time :-)))

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:42] herman Bergson: I loved it...

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and its already going to the movie screens and bookstores

[13:42] CB Axel: But since the Gamestop people aren't those rich people it made them mad.

[13:43] herman Bergson: Yes...for in isn't fun at all....

[13:43] herman Bergson: it is revealing the aberrations of the capitalist system

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): here we see black on white the issues

[13:43] herman Bergson: as such capitalism isn't a bad thing....

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a system out of control based on speculation and endless profit with no real value

[13:44] herman Bergson: but these extremes are

[13:45] herman Bergson: the liberal idea that economy runs based on demand and supply isn't a bad thing...nor making a profit in that system. It is not immoral

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nope

[13:45] herman Bergson: The second step is does a government regulate the system so that all benefit from it

[13:46] herman Bergson: And in that there is a difference between Europe and th eUS...

[13:47] Laila Schuman: not letting big money bribe those who make the laws

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:47] herman Bergson: In Europe sharing is more accepted than in the US for instance

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:48] Laila Schuman: get rig f fox news....

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in us its more its your own fault not been born with silver spoon

[13:48] CB Axel: But that's socialism! There can be no socialism in the US!!

[13:48] herman Bergson: So the idea of cooperation can lead to some interesting discussions coming lectures

[13:48] herman Bergson: lol....CB....quite right

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm how do we solve this issue so everyone gets happy

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): U DAMN SOCIALIST!

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): now lets be more social and

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): * PLUPP *

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :9

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this can indeed be interesting

[13:49] CB Axel: I'm afraid it's going to take education.

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true CB

[13:50] herman Bergson: No...I could say...I am a Christian....Just read the sermon of the Mountain...I in Marcus

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its not just done like CLICK

[13:50] CB Axel: But paying for everyone to be educated is socialism. :)

[13:50] herman Bergson: and what is wrong with socialism CB?

[13:51] herman Bergson: is it immoral...infringing on human rights?

[13:51] Laila Schuman: K-12 is paid for by LOCAL taxes... you pay for the tow you are in

[13:51] herman Bergson: what is the problem with it?

[13:51] CB Axel: Americans are taught that we fought the cold war against socialism, so socialism is bad.

[13:52] Laila Schuman: and the towns are not all rich or all poor

[13:52] CB Axel: We can only change that idea with education.

[13:52] Laila Schuman: but thy are often one or the other

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): socialism like Nazism and russian socialism

[13:52] CB Axel: But education for all is socialism.

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess

[13:52] CB Axel: And socialism is bad.

[13:52] herman Bergson: Then they are wrongly educated....

[13:52] Laila Schuman: in big cities it is areas around a school

[13:53] Laila Schuman: that is why i do not like the private school system that has grown so fast

[13:53] herman Bergson: The Cold War was a war against totalitarianism....against a dictator and murdered named Stalin

[13:53] Laila Schuman: poor neighborhoods can't afford it ... little tax money comes from low wages

[13:53] CB Axel: Right. But would-be dictators in the US want us to believe it was against socialism.

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes and that have gotten wrongly the name socialism

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): guess the Nazism might have been a big reason as it stands for National Socialism

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and thus socialism = evil

[13:54] Laila Schuman: nods

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats my theory

[13:54] herman Bergson: The US is preparing itself for a would-be dictator....Trump...he is working on it...believe me....unless some Reps grow some spine

[13:54] CB Axel: And now here in Iowa the governor is trying to get a law passed that allows state money to pay for private schools.

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gaaaah

[13:55] Laila Schuman: ohno

[13:55] CB Axel: Taking even more money from public schools.

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sigh"

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shakes head)

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmmm not good

[13:55] CB Axel: Why should the Republicans grow a spine when they expect to profit by backing a dictator?

[13:55] herman Bergson: State money for private idiotic do you want to have it?

[13:56] Laila Schuman: i went to public school in Iowa... a one room country school with all 9 grades in one room ... and one teacher

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed thats INSANE

[13:56] Laila Schuman: dreamed of going to town school where they might have magnets and other "fancy stuff? for learning

[13:57] herman Bergson: amazing Laila....

[13:57] CB Axel: They say that they want to give parents a choice as to where their kids go to school, so we have to give them money to go to a private school.

[13:57] Laila Schuman: book mobile brought a change of books for our library... which was one small shelf

[13:57] Laila Schuman: each month

[13:57] Laila Schuman: music lesson over the radio

[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:57] Laila Schuman: every body sing along to this song...

[13:58] herman Bergson smiles....

[13:58] Laila Schuman: little Joe the wrangler will wrangle never more....

[13:58] herman Bergson: You make me recall old memories ....from primary school

[13:58] Laila Schuman: he got killed while herding cattle

[13:58] Laila Schuman: great song for elementary school kids

[13:58] CB Axel: lol

[13:59] herman Bergson: lol

[13:59] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ..toen den hertog Jan kwam Vaaaaharen..te peerd parmand al triomfant...

[13:59] herman Bergson: lol

[13:59] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): elemantairy school...

[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): heehe

[13:59] Laila Schuman: we would dream of real libraries

[14:00] herman Bergson: Waar de blanke top der duinen glinstert in de zonnegloed....:-)))

[14:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol

[14:00] herman Bergson: oh my goodness...

[14:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i didn't understand a word of those songs

[14:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but we had to sing it

[14:00] herman Bergson: Well....getting back to our infancy is a bit off may be a good moment to end our discussion :-)

[14:01] CB Axel: :)

[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):

[14:01] herman Bergson: Thank you all again....

[14:01] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[14:01] herman Bergson: Any questions left?

[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): can you sing it for us please?

[14:01] herman Bergson: Still waiting for Lux's question :-))

[14:01] CB Axel: Maybe he can play it on his cello!

[14:02] CB Axel: How is the cello, Herman?

[14:02] herman Bergson: No dismissed ^_^

[14:02] CB Axel: Thank you, class. :)

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes how do that go?

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the cello

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[14:02] herman Bergson: Practicing every day CB...

[14:02] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class:-)

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lets

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): * PLUPP *

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[14:02] CB Axel: Good for you. You're far more disciplined than I.

[14:02] bergfrau Apfelbaum: lol

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i like the cello sound

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its sort of mighty

[14:03] CB Axel: Me, too.

[14:03] herman Bergson: That is because you have no cello, I guess CB :-)

[14:04] herman Bergson: Hmmm...maybe I can put a short video on my FB page...:-)

[14:04] CB Axel: That would be nice.

[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[14:04] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): whisper it to the wind and the world can hear it...

[14:04] CB Axel: In the meantime, I'll see you all Thursday. Bye.

[14:04] herman Bergson: ok...will be working on it  :-)

[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa cu CB

[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

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