According to Cicero true law is right reason in harmony with nature and nature is the divine design, that is the foundation of our existence,
How homo sapiens knows this, I don't know, but it may have to do with common sense, Having every issue decided by the right of the strongest, isn't beneficial for a peaceful community.
Coming to an agreement, sharing resources, being reasonable.... I think homo sapiens has learned a lot about himself during evolution,
so that he has discovered a pattern in his behavior, which leads to living in a peaceful community. Maybe from that experience, he has deduced this idea of a divine design.
This led to the description of the individual as we saw in the previous lecture: the truth-seeking, reasonable individual, aware of time and causality.
This gave Cicero’s philosophy a strong sense of individualism. This is most evident in his approach to one of the most characteristic features of the individual: private property.
Agreeing with the Stoics, Cicero believed that God gave the world to man for his own use. However this does not mean that we share everything in common,
for Cicero argued that every creature has a tendency to preserve itself, but the difference between human and beast lies within man’s capacity to plan for the future.
Thus, private property is important and necessary as it allows people to live in peace. Every person is expected to appropriate for themselves and their family what they need to survive.
Cicero held that one of the reasons people united in the state of nature was in order to preserve what was already in their possession.
For Cicero, property has always existed, even in the state of nature, i.e., in the absence of a governmental body.
Cicero did not claim that ownership of property is a natural right, but rather believed that it was established through a mixture of convention and consent.
Even though property is not a natural right, it is a logical extension of our nature. One of the main features of Cicero’s natural law theory is the concept of “to each his due.”
If the state is authentic in its conduct, adhering to the principles of natural law, that is, to reason, then it will formalize and protect what each person has legitimately appropriated from nature.
How these ideas survived the centuries we see, for instance, in the United States. America’s Founders understood clearly that private property is the foundation not only of prosperity but of freedom itself.
Thus, through the common law, state law, and the Constitution, they protected property rights, the rights of people to acquire, use, and dispose of property freely.
Private property has become one of the basic rights of the individual and almost the symbol of his freedom. The most extreme view is perhaps, that private property is untouchable: hands off....this is MINE.
Of course, this isn't a tenable position in society, but in our capitalist system freedom means to have the freedom to accumulate wealth without a limit.
However, this private property also leads to the growing gap between the poor and rich in our world and especially between who has and who hasn't political power.
And the "individual" with an unlimited amount of private wealth doesn't need to be just a person. It also can be a big company.
You will understand that the relationship between private property and the right to liberty if you think for a moment, turns into one big political hornet's nest.
To give you an example: Charles and David Koch, American billionaire businessmen, long claimed to belong to a system of belief based on the freedom of the individual,
unimpeded trade and lives lived free from the intrusion of tax, drafts, business regulations, welfare support, and laws designed to curb free expression.
To that end, in particular, they participated in financing the Tea Party revolution (2009), an American fiscally conservative political movement within the Republican Party.
Thank you for your attention again....the floor is yours....
The Discussion
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:27] oola Neruda: thinking of slavery
[13:27] herman Bergson: The concept of freedom to accumulate private property unlimited is questionable
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i guess the owners did not read cicero
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the richer u are the more you should also share. For ex if i made millions and millions i wopuld donate at least wome of these to global welfare and similar. I would accumulate for sure but just what i felt i would really need
[13:28] herman Bergson: Let alone to have human beings as private property
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the rich instead even evade taxes putting all their wealth in tax paradises
[13:28] herman Bergson: It is not THAT simple Bejiita....
[13:28] oola Neruda: thinking of lobbyists
[13:29] herman Bergson: If you posses billions and you donate them to.....??????
[13:29] herman Bergson: Yo whom or what???
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some here do herman
[13:29] oola Neruda: or buy favors
[13:29] herman Bergson: That is a highly political matter
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Gates
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): for example
[13:29] herman Bergson: The Koch Brothers do
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gates donate so im ok with him he contributes to others
[13:29] herman Bergson: and Gates, yes
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there aare a whole group that signed an agreement
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to donate over a certain amount
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and they do
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): every year
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a good thing
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): which is also to their benefit
[13:30] herman Bergson: But those rich people that donate influence society, but aren't democratically elected....
[13:30] oola Neruda: there is a book... report from iron mountain... a bit outdated because it is Viet Nam War period... but makes a point
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the important thing is to not be like MINE MINE ALL MINE ONLY MINE
[13:31] herman Bergson: Those rich people should only donate to the democratically elected government of their country, I'd say
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Warren Buffett, the third richest man in the world, also the most charitable – he has donated more than 55% ($46.6 billion) of his wealth to philanthropic causes. Denise Coates, the best-paid woman in the world, is the most philanthropic female billionaire, publicly donating around 2.7% ($120 million) of her earnings to charitable causes.
[13:32] herman Bergson: All they money the earned they took from society...so return it
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:33] herman Bergson: What do they influence with these donations?
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): another thing is how u earn your wealth, like Jeff Bezos sacrificed his employees to a tornado for profit
[13:33] herman Bergson: Like the Koch Brothers financed the Tea Party...and look what it has brought us
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ouch yes
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): NO U CANT LEAVE
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): SMAAASSH
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and everyone gone
[13:34] oola Neruda: Senator Whitehouse called the senate menmbers... the house of mammon... because of bribes from lobbying
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:34] herman Bergson: Such donators rule the world, not us the peole
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:35] herman Bergson: so private property is not just some objective something.....
[13:35] herman Bergson: It has big political consequences...the way we define it....
[13:35] herman Bergson: For instance.....
[13:36] herman Bergson: Who owns the earth.....the soil....the ground we walk on?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): soon someone want to own the moon
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): psss
[13:36] herman Bergson: That really scared me Bejiita...that prospect....
[13:36] oola Neruda: who owns the air... namely the future... re: climate change
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed its crazy
[13:37] oola Neruda: or the means of putting those pollutants into the air... like oil rigs...etc
[13:37] herman Bergson: There is a lost of valuable raw material to find there....
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but people find ways to make money and as long we continue find new ways to do that the moon is in danger
[13:37] herman Bergson: Who owns the moon?????
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): among other things
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): "Remember you are just an extra in everyone else's play." Franklin Roosevelt said
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nothing is spared everything can be sold for profit
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some one will try to claim it for sure
[13:38] herman Bergson: Just think about that for a minute nad it gives you the shivers
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its crazy for sure
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:38] herman Bergson: Think so too
[13:39] herman Bergson: John Locke said, the land a man can work on in one day he may call his property...
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah the land
[13:39] herman Bergson: With that idea the immigrants in the US went West.....
[13:39] herman Bergson: and started farming there
[13:40] oola Neruda: and killed the native Americans who were on that land
[13:40] herman Bergson: taking land that was inhabited by other people
[13:40] herman Bergson: that is a bizar aspect of private property creating
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:41] herman Bergson: The more you think about private property and the freedom to do with it as you like, the more complicated it becomes
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): rigth
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right that is
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly
[13:42] herman Bergson: that means....we need a society, reason and common sense to decide how to share what we call property
[13:42] oola Neruda: and russia surrounding his neighbor with troops and equipment.... whose property?????
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Putin's cause he want to recreate Soviet
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fingers crossed it is going away
[13:43] herman Bergson: Bizar oola....Ukraine is a sovereign state....how can you invade that, unless as a crime agains "private property"
[13:43] oola Neruda: i mean... it is not Russia's to claim
[13:44] herman Bergson: Just the idea that you have the right to do so....What right has a Putin have?
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in his mind
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Putin don't care if he would so nuke the planet he shall have soviet back
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): scary guy
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): really scary
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or i don't know how far he is prepared to go but nothing seems to stop him so far and his crazy idea
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all opponents jailed ect
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or even murdered
[13:45] herman Bergson: Well, I don't know....P can calculate too...and the costs are mountain high for an invasion in many respects
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully he will come to his senses, we can only hope this will sort out
[13:46] herman Bergson: Just imagine how much it must have cost to move all those troops
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:47] oola Neruda: and hundreds or thousands of private property owners...who must band together... as if it were any person who was being threated thus ... throughout history
[13:47] herman Bergson: war is not for free....
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but it on the other hand seems that when it comes to bombs and destruction no cost is too high,
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): everything else is too expennsive but not the will to blow each other up
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats scary
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): war is so unnecessary
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess it all comes down to power and world domination
[13:48] herman Bergson: the problem is that the bombs and rockets they use now are already paid for
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that drive
[13:49] herman Bergson: Problem starts when it becomes a prolonged war
[13:49] oola Neruda: back to the moon... first come first served??????? who will "own the moon?"
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to be determined
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some greedy bastard will try claiming it, Bezos maybee
[13:49] oola Neruda: no current owners to kill off
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he have already been to space
[13:49] herman Bergson: Thought about that too, oola...like children we are....I WAS FIRST !!! ^_^
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly
[13:50] herman Bergson: In fact we had the same problem with the North and South pole
[13:50] oola Neruda: nods
[13:51] herman Bergson: Who owns the top of the earth?
[13:51] oola Neruda: oil and coal companies
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep i guess
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: back then, monkeys were sent into space. now it's the rich
[13:51] oola Neruda: just ask them
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:51] herman Bergson: Same species Bergie ^+^
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and a lot wiser
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: they even pay
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: grins
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just highly evolved, on the other hand We put the monkeys in space they did not decide themselves I WANT TO GO TO THE MOON OOOH OHH
[13:52] herman Bergson: I don't know how you think about it...
[13:52] herman Bergson: but I really have to think it over: What is private property?
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and what can u own
[13:53] herman Bergson: yes..
[13:53] bergfrau Apfelbaum: now the monkeys are protected because the rich exist
[13:53] herman Bergson: yeah they are safe now....:-))
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): until Bolzonaro have cut down Amazons
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and sold the monkeys for profit
[13:54] herman Bergson: They got new jobs in the pharma and cosmetic labs to contribute to the accumulation of private property of the rich
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully that will not happen
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: "Our Inventory" of this world is owned by Linden Lab
[13:55] oola Neruda: smiles
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-)
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its their servers and system
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the creators
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but indeed its not open source
[13:55] herman Bergson: Well...for today I 'd like to end with wishing you good luck with all your private property :-) and just think it over sometime....:-)
[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we still get taxed on our private property too
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (hugs my workstation computer)
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:56] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie....pure socialism....!
[13:56] oola Neruda: is it private property if you have to pay rent
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the chocolate box
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): before throwing out some chocos for everyone to share
[13:56] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class!
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): here u go
[13:56] herman Bergson: The house is, but it isn't yours oola
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and great class again
[[13:57] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:57] herman Bergson: Ok....
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki where now?
[13:57] herman Bergson: Time to relax...
[13:57] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....
[[13:57] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
No comments:
Post a Comment