The idea of political freedom, which means not being enslaved by a tyrant or some king, but free to decide on your own political situation had been absent for more than a millennium.
The scholars of the Renaissance re-discovered the philosophy and wisdom of the ancient Greeks and Romans, one of which was Cicero, revived by Petrarca (1304 -1374).
It is amazing to see how a single man introduces old political philosophies to the discourse of his time
and that these ideas have such an impact, that they shape the ensuing history of Europe.
Cicero was not an atheist. On the contrary, since he was influenced by contemporary Stoics,
Cicero believed that there was a divine reason which governed every aspect of the universe, as I mentioned in the previous lecture.
And as I said before, for Cicero, this divine mind designed and ordered the universe.
He asserted that all things are implanted with a function and end towards which they are directed by the dictates of their own nature;
this is called law. To Cicero, “law in the proper sense is right reason in harmony with nature.”
In other words, we are morally subjugated to the laws of nature.
We differ from animals due to our possession of the interrelated faculties of reason and speech. Reason allows us to perform four main functions.
Firstly, it enables us to infer causal relationships between external objects. We do not just see that dominos fall, but rather we understand that they fall as part of a chain of events.
Secondly, reason equips us to remember events, thus allowing us to accumulate knowledge and increase our understanding of the world throughout our life.
Thirdly, our capacity for reason allows us to moderate our behavior; unlike animals who are slaves to their passions, humans can act civilly around others and be considerate.
Lastly, and most importantly from Cicero’s perspective, is humanity’s quest for truth: “above all, the search after truth and its eager pursuit are peculiar to man.
” We have the urge to uncover the divine order of the universe in all fields of life, whether it be through logic, astronomy, mathematics, or philosophy.
Each human is endowed with two personas. The “first persona,” which is common to all people, incorporates our capacity for speech and reason.
Cicero believed that reason is the highest good, for “what is there, I will not say in man, but in the whole of heaven and earth, more divine than reason?”
The “second persona” is individual to every person. It is composed of our talents, our personal tastes, and our respective duties assigned to us based upon our individual abilities.
This is the "persona" derived from Cicero's works and introduced in the discourse of his time: the description of a free person, that shapes his life according to reason.
This may be regarded as the first steps in the individualism, that nowadays dominate our culture in most places,
the transition from sheep under a good shepherd to an individual guided by his reason.
Thank you for your attention again...the floor is yours.
The Discussion
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:18] herman Bergson: I always have wondered where this individualism in our culture came from....
[13:19] oola Neruda: some of us need a good shepherd.....
[13:19] herman Bergson: many cultures don't know this western individualism
[13:19] oola Neruda: having been a teacher, myself
[13:19] herman Bergson: there the group, tribe or family is the pivot of the social structures
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:20] herman Bergson: But it must have originated among the Greeks
[13:21] herman Bergson: Cicero admired the Greeks and introduced it into Roman thinking
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well sounds like a good origin point for sure as with the ideas of democracy they go hand in hand sort of
[13:22] herman Bergson: Indeed Bejiita
[13:22] oola Neruda: thinking of the anti-vaxers... tribalism
[13:22] herman Bergson: One man one vote needs some understanding of individualism
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes oola....those old atavistic behaviors haven't disappeared
[13:23] herman Bergson: We still love the US verses THEM thinking
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least some of us do
[13:24] herman Bergson: It is a matter of priorities, it seems....
[13:24] herman Bergson: yo what do you want to belong to?
[13:24] herman Bergson: Your fasmili
[13:24] herman Bergson: Some group
[13:24] Somedirtycat Saule: Woke ppl seems not to endowed with Ciceros two distinctions from animals as much as they think they are lol
[13:24] herman Bergson: SOme religion
[13:24] oola Neruda: "nobody can tell me what to do"
[13:24] herman Bergson: are primarily and in first place to yourself....?
[13:25] herman Bergson: or
[13:26] herman Bergson: the concept of freedom is closely connected with individuality
[13:28] oola Neruda: trauma... lots of trauma... will help a person to find what is good in life..... the safety, kindness, respect... etc. that allow one to feel ... ok
[13:28] herman Bergson: Beginning in the Renaissance individualism will become the leading principle in the social organization of society
[13:28] oola Neruda: falling flat on your face will also help at times
[13:28] oola Neruda: been there... done it all
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:28] herman Bergson: Saule was testing it, oola:-)
[13:28] oola Neruda: to me... that is woke
[13:29] herman Bergson: I have no idea what this woke ado really is...
[13:29] herman Bergson: I read the weirdest things about it
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe nobody knows
[13:30] oola Neruda: depends on your point of view
[13:30] herman Bergson: sometimes I get the impression that white people have to excuse themselves for being white...that it makes them guilty of whatever
[13:31] oola Neruda: most of them don't feel guilty
[13:31] Somedirtycat Saule: It's like the political version of religious cults.
[13:31] herman Bergson: should be woke ??
[13:32] oola Neruda: who is right?
[13:32] Somedirtycat Saule: Think it comes out of Frankfurt School.
[13:32] oola Neruda: opinion
[13:32] herman Bergson: You think so Saule
[13:32] herman Bergson: I thought it was a typical political correct American idea
[13:32] Alejandra Loza 24c (kotori24c) is offline.
[13:33] Somedirtycat Saule: that too
[13:33] oola Neruda: opinion
[13:33] herman Bergson: Well...maybe one day I'll wake up and say..I woke :-)
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (sets alarm bell for Herman)
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:34] herman Bergson: You always can google on "woke" and learn about it...guess I'll do that
[13:35] herman Bergson: Thank you Bejiita ^_^
[13:35] Somedirtycat Saule: It looks strange when american Universities limit free speach that they really need and if some 'anti vaxxers' debate them they should easily win. But no. We ges Bolsjeviks.
[13:35] herman Bergson: I guess we are done for today...nothing controversial
[13:36] Somedirtycat Saule: Woke is hardly individualism, to connect to the subject
[13:36] herman Bergson: I'll check it out, Saule
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:37] herman Bergson: Unless someone still has a question or remark...?
[13:37] herman Bergson: If not....
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:37] herman Bergson: Thank you all again......
[13:38] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a good one again
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Woke (/ ˈ w oʊ k / WOHK) is an English adjective meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination' that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion ...
[13:38] oola Neruda: I apologize if i hurt somebody's feelings
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): found it on Wiki
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ok
[13:38] oola Neruda: I just believe in being kind to others.
[13:38] herman Bergson: Interesting Beertje
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a good thing oola
[13:39] oola Neruda: i know what is it like to be treated as a .... whatever...
[13:39] oola Neruda: and do not want to do that to others
[13:40] oola Neruda: they are all ... everywhere... skin, bones etc. just like me
[13:40] herman Bergson: the problem is in the brain , oola :-)
[13:40] oola Neruda: that is why i said war teaches us how to act
[13:40] oola Neruda: you been there... done that... you thnk it over
[13:41] oola Neruda: do unto others... as you would have them do unto you.... to quote a famous source
[13:41] herman Bergson: the Golden Rule....Kant already supported it
[13:42] herman Bergson: Bit unfortunately the rule isn't waterproof
[13:42] herman Bergson: Let me give you an example
[13:43] herman Bergson: You don't lie to others and the rule says that thence others shouldn't lie to you too
[13:43] herman Bergson: but suppose your friend knocks on your door
[13:44] herman Bergson: the KGB or some assassin is chacing him.....
[13:44] herman Bergson: You hide your friend and the KGB knocks at your door....
[13:44] herman Bergson: They ask...is your friend here?
[13:45] herman Bergson: If you don't lie they will kill your friend
[13:45] herman Bergson: If you lie you do something you wish others won't do to you either
[13:45] Marja Haven-Zeimer (ladyy.haven) is online.
[13:45] oola Neruda: what is the higher truth?
[13:46] herman Bergson: the rule says that you shouldn't lie
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): protecting your friend
[13:46] herman Bergson: you have to lie to protect the life of your friend who is innocent
[13:47] Somedirtycat Saule: You could spice that up by making your friend is hunted because something you relly dont support
[13:47] herman Bergson: you see a child....seriously hungry and almost dieing....
[13:47] oola Neruda: what if he is not innocent.... and at that, in whose eyes is he guilty or innocent?
[13:47] herman Bergson: the only way to save the child is to steal a bread
[13:48] Somedirtycat Saule: what if the child is young (name a dictator with blood on his hands)
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): better bake one:)
[13:48] oola Neruda: teaching in a very bad Chicago neighborhood... all the tiime the elementary children would aski...."is it all right to steal food if I am hungry?"
[13:49] oola Neruda: and they were hungry, indeed
[13:49] herman Bergson: The Golden rule is a nice one but not a waterproof rule for ethics unfortunately
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): depends on the situation
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what is the right thing to do
[13:49] herman Bergson: It does Bejiita
[13:50] herman Bergson: So, the rule isn't a universal rule
[13:51] herman Bergson: You need the rule + the context/situation
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if friend is innicent u like him and someone want to kill him i say lying is the right thing to do cause then the KKB are the bad guys
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): KGB
[13:51] herman Bergson: Yes...
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): never let bad guys win i say
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or evil
[13:52] herman Bergson: so you need from an ethical point of view some extra standards and norms
[13:52] Somedirtycat Saule: What if your friend did something really bad?
[13:52] oola Neruda: and what if it is a relative...
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it can get VERY complicated indeed
[13:52] Somedirtycat Saule: Bothe him and KGB are bad
[13:52] herman Bergson: there you go.....
[13:53] herman Bergson: Thst is a bit the problem with this divine reason that organizes the universe.....
[13:53] herman Bergson: and the believe in natural law for the individual
[13:54] herman Bergson: If these laws really existed we wouldn't have problems like Saule brings forward for instance...
[13:54] oola Neruda: back to experience of being "hurt".... it is a good guide for caring for others... i you listen to it instead of reacting with revenge
[13:54] herman Bergson: Ethics would be a clear cut thing
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): revenge is never a solution
[13:55] Somedirtycat Saule: Lot of ppl feel their rights been violated
[13:56] oola Neruda: how seriously
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): violence feeding violence feeding violence
[13:56] herman Bergson: Indeed Saule...especially in these days with all the COVID restrictions
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats why we have these shootings among other things
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): between drug gangs revenging each other
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BOOOM BLAM BLAM
[13:57] oola Neruda: do the anti vaxers have the right to put others in danger??? whose rights are more important.... health or sickness/possible death
[13:57] Somedirtycat Saule: nods but far from limited tio that
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed trying to sabotage and such
[13:57] herman Bergson: it is a consequence of our current hyper individualism
[13:58] Somedirtycat Saule: Is your impression of the problem with anti vaxxers based in reality?
[13:58] oola Neruda: do unto others as you would have them do unto you
[13:58] oola Neruda: have you watched people die?
[13:59] oola Neruda: i have sat at two deathbeds... it ain't pretty
[13:59] Somedirtycat Saule: you are arguing with emotions
[13:59] oola Neruda: and you seem insulted by reason
[14:00] herman Bergson frowns
[14:00] oola Neruda: even facts
[14:00] Somedirtycat Saule: emotions and reason is not same as far I know
[14:00] herman Bergson: That may be questionable, Saule
[14:01] herman Bergson: We love binary thinking....
[14:01] oola Neruda: and, with several doctors ind nurses in the family..... i go with the medical facts
[14:01] Somedirtycat Saule: well, we can perhaps find examples
[14:01] herman Bergson: either this or that
[14:02] herman Bergson: When you give a reason for something it also has an emotional value and connotation
[14:02] herman Bergson: reason and emotion are not two separate entities
[14:02] oola Neruda: do we not have a responsibility to others in this life
[14:02] Somedirtycat Saule: One fact that seems forgotten is that vaccinated get covid without symptoms and spread it too.
[14:03] herman Bergson: true
[14:03] oola Neruda: anti maskers are in the mix
[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[14:03] oola Neruda: do unto others...etc
[14:03] herman Bergson: Vaccinations isn't meant to prevent spreading..it is meant to keep you out of the hospital
[14:04] Somedirtycat Saule: exact, and there falls oola's argumentation
[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it protects YOU
[14:04] oola Neruda: it also helps to prevent spreading when you have fewer out there doing the spreading
[14:04] herman Bergson: other measures like keeping distance, wearing masks, avoid dense crowds are meant to prevent spreading
[14:04] Somedirtycat Saule: nods
[14:05] herman Bergson: so..if antivaxxers stick to such rules it is ok with me
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if im vaccinated but have the virus and meet someone not vaccinated i can still make that person deadly sick
[14:05] Somedirtycat Saule: Some multiple vaccinated think 'I don't need to do that as I got my shots'
[14:05] herman Bergson: when they get COVID and end up in the hospital...their bad luck
[14:06] herman Bergson: Then they are not correctly informed about the function of vaccination, Saule...or just stupid :-)
[14:06] oola Neruda: there are scientific reasons for multiple shots... boosters.... doctors and scientists are not huxters
[14:07] herman Bergson: The reason I just mentioned
[14:07] oola Neruda: i have a scientist as a husband... you would not believe the machinations they go through to be correct...
[14:07] Somedirtycat Saule: A friend with a bad disease recently went to hospital with complications that the doctors never seen. She got her shots. She is not online today.
[14:08] oola Neruda: which is also self serving because if they are wrong... then their reputations is )(*
[14:08] oola Neruda: there are many people who have complications PLUS covid....
[14:09] herman Bergson: those are the vulnerable people
[14:09] oola Neruda: in fact, pre-existing problems are dangerous arournd covid... all the more reason for others to be considerate and get their shots
[14:10] Somedirtycat Saule: My father who got three shots just got diagnosed with heart defisiensy
[14:10] Somedirtycat Saule: well cant spell that
[14:10] oola Neruda: which might be dangerous for him if covid goes on top of it
[14:10] herman Bergson: was almost correct Saule :-)
[14:11] herman Bergson: Like it is for me ^_^
[14:11] herman Bergson: Those shots won't save me....sticking to the COVID restriction rules does
[14:11] oola Neruda: pre-existing conditions make it worse
[14:12] Somedirtycat Saule: nods. But agression against those who wait with the shots untill they get all fact of it before they take them is untastefull imho
[14:12] herman Bergson: At least I survided these two years ^_^
[14:12] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because now when many more are vaccinated and such it seems to at least get better again
[14:12] oola Neruda: the doctors have been on the news...giving the facts... ALL THE TIME
[14:12] oola Neruda: and it is in print... all over the place
[14:13] herman Bergson: Yes Saule...it is based on a misconception about what the vaccine does
[14:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): restrictions were lifted last wednesday here in sweden and u dont hear all time on radio 200 dead today 800 more dead next day ect
[14:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the doomsday messages
[14:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so i hope
[14:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its going in right direction
[14:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and i have got my 3 shots
[14:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and all is ok
[14:14] herman Bergson: they gonna lift the restrictions here in the Netherlands too coming week
[14:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but better eb careful a while longer
[14:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but im hopeful
[14:14] herman Bergson: Big feasts ahead...Carnaval!!!!!!
[14:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this might finally be over
[14:14] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Alaaf !!
[14:14] oola Neruda: depends upon who is vaccinated in the places you go... and the precautions taken... that helps determine the numbers
[14:14] herman Bergson: So I satay in hiding and wait and see how things will develop :-)
[14:15] Somedirtycat Saule: ood idea
[14:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): shall we
[14:15] Somedirtycat Saule: +G
[14:15] herman Bergson: I dont thin so oola....
14:15] mika Vemo: Harvard University has proven that it doesn't matter if you're vaccinated or not, the death rate is only 0.02%
[14:15] mika Vemo de>es: La Universidad de Harvard ha demostrado que no importa si estás vacunado o no, la tasa de mortalidad es solo del 0,02%
[14:15] herman Bergson: vaccinated or non vaccinated...everyone can have covid and be a spreader
[14:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[14:15] herman Bergson: just what I said Mika :-)
[14:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but if vaccinated and u get it u will not get lethal sick
[14:16] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class!
[14:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but more like a common cold
[[14:16] Somedirtycat Saule: Thank You
[14:16] herman Bergson: indeed Bejiita
[14:16] mika Vemo: And vaccinated get the Omikron variant faster
[14:16] mika Vemo de>es: Y vacunados obtener la variante Omicron más rápido
[14:16] Somedirtycat Saule: Thanks all
[14:16] herman Bergson: Indeed Bergie....time to end our debate and verbal vaccination :-)
[14:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[14:17] herman Bergson: As I said...class dismissed ...and stay healthy :-)
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