The bitter and groundless ad hominem (against the person and not the issue) attacks on the great materialist thinkers is a recurrent theme. We can't nor won't deny it, that atheism is a logical consequence of materialism.
So, now and then it inevitably will be part of our discourse here and with reason. As the principal theoretical challenge to theistic doctrine and religious practice, materialist are seen not only as philosophical opponents but as ethically degenerate is various ways.
If attacks by enemies are the measure of a materialist philosopher's significance, Epikuros ( 341 - 270 BCE) is very important indeed. He is said to have written 300 books, but all that is left are some maxims and three letters on the philosophy of nature and morality.
Diogenes Laërtius, who lived around the first half of the 3rd century in Anatolia and wrote "Vitae Philosophorum" ,generally reports philosophical teachings without attempting to reinterpret or expand on them, which means his accounts are often closer to the primary sources.
Due to the loss of so many of the primary sources on which Diogenes relied, his work has become the foremost surviving source on the history of Greek philosophy.The letters and one set of maxims can be found in his book "Vitae Philosophorum" .
He begins the account on Epikuros after some biographical details with a list of authors who have bitterly attacked Epikuros and accused him of all kinds of base behavior.
The reason for these bitter attacks was, that Epikuros argued that the goal of life was the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain. From a biological point of view the most obvious observation.
But Epikuros met the same fate as the adherents of Carvakas materialism. Their conceptions of the purpose of existence were exaggerated to make it seem immoral, of course according to the views of the religiouslsssy motivated critics.
He was an atomist like Demokritos, but not an atheist. The people in India were explicitly criticizing the dominant religion. Epikuros had another interpretation of the soul and gods.
According to him. like everything else, the soul consists of atoms, differing from other atoms only in being smaller and subtler. These atoms are dispersed at death and the soul ceases to perceive. Maybe Epikuros saw the mind and the soul as one and the same thing.
The gods too are built of atoms, but they live in a less turbulent region, immune for dissolution. They live happy lives, untroubled by concern for human beings.
For that reason belief in providence is superstition and religious rituals a waste of time. The gods neither impose necessity nor interfere with our choices.
So, the gods live their happy lives and are not al all interested in the lives of humans. And here we go again, of course... The religious find his conception of the gods as material entities
and the idea of their being indifferent to mankind and completely uninvolved in the world of humans, utterly unacceptable. To have them written out of the story makes the assertion of their existence, in the eyes of the religious, utterly hollow.
Epikuros thought that religion was responsible for the fear of death that troubles so many people. In particular the threat of hell, or the wrath of god or gods displeased with man's efforts in life, makes men tremble.
As with the teachings of Carvakas/Lokayata, Epikuros believed the senses could be reliable as sources of information, but as Demokritos recognized, false judgements may arise from observations. Reason must play its part in the process of gaining knowledge from perception
The pattern is clear: from India to the Roman Empire at least some people had come to the conclusion that all there is, is what they experience with their senses, something you can, see, feel, taste, smell or hear.
Furthermore using common sense is a big help to organize these experiences which lead to the conclusion that we live in a material world. That's it.
On the other hand there is this fear in homo sapiens of not knowing, having no answer to what he experiences. That goes two ways, on the one hand he makes up all kinds of stories
that reduce the fear of the unknown and on the other hand he hates people who say that those stories are based on nothing. History shows that those who believe in the stories have always been the dominant group. Let's see how this dominance develops...
Thank you for your attention again...
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thankyou Herman'
[13:18] herman Bergson: I find epikuros really funny regarding his ideas about the gods
[13:19] herman Bergson: They are there but not at all interested in us :-))
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): just "living "their lives elsewhere
[13:19] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:20] herman Bergson: I really don't understand his reasoning....
[13:20] herman Bergson: no place to go....
[13:20] herman Bergson: for on the other hand...for him there is no afterlife for the soul
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the reasoning is human, the only living creature that has fantasy
[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes....maybe he thought like this....
[13:22] herman Bergson: I haven't seen a single result or effect of any ritual or prayer...
[13:22] herman Bergson: but people like and believe in gods....so let them have them as they are...uninterested...
[13:23] herman Bergson: and thus I am politically correct :-)
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and cursing at the welding machine cause i did get stuck all time helped nada also
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it was just me to tired for proper control
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im sluggish
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not the machines fault, its just a power supply
[13:24] herman Bergson: Ahh Bejiita...that are atavistic behaviors related to our inclination to animism
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[13:24] herman Bergson: Ascribe life to lifeless things
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just got a bit mad cause i wanted FLOW, then TIG welding is like meditation
[13:24] herman Bergson: We do it all the time
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like the manufacturer of the machine i use, KEMPPI states in their slogan "The joy of welding"
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well when all works its a joy
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for sure
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:26] herman Bergson: ANyway...the scene of materialist thinking has been set by the Old Indian people and continued till the Roman era....
[13:26] herman Bergson: It never gained popularity
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:27] herman Bergson: Maybe next time :-))
[13:27] herman Bergson: So let's get ready for Thursday :-)
[13:27] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....
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