Our intuitive account of ourselves as human beings seems to be implicitly a dualistic picture where the individual can stand outside the material order and make free choices.
We live in a material world, but we have a mind that feels like it is independent of this material world. We can think about this material world and feel free to do as we like.
And here we run into the biggest problem of physicalism, but how big the problem is depends on how you want to solve it. Let me picture our situation.
The difference between supervenience and emergence can be illustrated by using an analogy of a cake. Supervenience would imply that the cake’s properties or facts depend on its ingredients, but are not identical to them.
For instance, the cake’s taste supervenes its ingredients, meaning that any change in taste would require a change in ingredients, but taste is not reducible to ingredients.
Emergence would imply that the cake’s properties or facts arise from its ingredients, but are not determined by them. For instance, the cake’s shape emerges from its ingredients, meaning that shape is a new phenomenon that cannot be explained or predicted by ingredients alone.
In both cases, the property "taste" is a new property of all combined ingredients, but when you take the cake apart up to its smallest particles, you'll never find something you can call "the taste of the cake".
You could say that the taste of the cake is totally determined by its ingredients. The cake has no option to taste different from how it tastes based on its ingredients. If we apply this to the relation brain - mental states,
it would mean that we simply need a complex machine to read all brain states from which we then could deduce the supervenient mental states. I regard such a scenario as still science fiction.
The shape of the cake, however, is not 100% dependent on the ingredients. Maybe its size is. The size cannot exceed the quantity of the ingredients, but the shape is not 100% dependent on the ingredient. It will emerge from the oven.
Unless new data are discovered, here is my preliminary interpretation of this big problem. In the first place, we have no idea what the relation is between mental states like thoughts, emotions, desires, fears, and so on and the physical brain.
We only know for sure that the relation exists, All kinds of neurobiological research show us correlations between physical states of the brain and the presence of specific mental states.
Neuroscience also has demonstrated that it can create specific mental states by influencing the physical brain, but in all these situations we are confronted with a mysterious statement like: "I feel happy".
This leads me to the question, "Who is this I", It must be more than just a feeling of happiness. The only conclusion is that it must be what we call consciousness or awareness.
Maybe this feeling of happiness supervenes the presence of dopamine, oxytocin or serotonin in the brain, but the I", that is feeling this way still escapes this direct material determinism and can safely be regarded as an emergent property of the brain.
So we live on with the statement with which I began this lecture: Our intuitive account of ourselves as human beings seems to be implicitly a dualistic picture where the individual can stand outside the material order and make free choices.
Thank you for your attention.....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
The Discussion
[13:12] herman Bergson: In other words Free Will is not determined by material processes that follow laws of nature only
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something more is there
[13:13] herman Bergson: If you have any questions ore remarks...feel free...
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but what
[13:14] Dings (dings.digital): I liked the idea that it is the freedom to say "no", "I want/do something else"
[13:14] herman Bergson: I wouldn't say something more is there
[13:14] herman Bergson: Yes Dings... free will is related to choices and actions.
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or idk, but truth is what we do is just not predetermined
[13:15] herman Bergson: Indeed Bejiita
[13:15] Max Chatnoir: You can stimulate the brain by things out side of the body, like light and sound. Does that extend the mind or the consciousness also beyond the body.
[13:15] Max Chatnoir: ?
[13:16] herman Bergson: The confusing thing here is the word FREE, if you interpred the Will as the opportunity to be able to choose
[13:16] Dings (dings.digital): like is the brain a whole thing? or maybe it is both, a system of its own, and a part of a whole
[13:16] Windows Bhalti: Free will, according to what little I know, is biological. So sayeth the UN, their founder Schwab and his assistant Yuval Harari and the UN's offshoot, the WHO.
[13:16] herman Bergson: Stimulating the organism provokes responses Max, that is all, I'd zay
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well like last Thursday when i got home from work and was told by the team that WE NEED TO RUN THROUGH GRYTA! ( a community in my city- it lit means cauldron) Then the team determined my actions , i was not forced but obliged to because i wanted to upport the team
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so a combination of external and internal things i say determine what i do
[13:17] herman Bergson: What is meant by biological, Windows?
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but in the end it is upon me what I do, only I can control my own body
[13:18] Windows Bhalti: the study of living organisms, divided into many specialized fields that cover their morphology, physiology, anatomy, behavior, origin, and distribution.
[13:18] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita, Will is choices and actions
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:19] herman Bergson: Well Windows that comes close to the relation between choices and actions
[13:20] herman Bergson: Only if the biological organisms are more primitive I wouldn't speak of a Will but a determined biological response, like evading pain and seeking food and pleasure
[13:20] herman Bergson: A human being can make a choice to experience pain to a greater good
[13:20] Windows Bhalti: according to Harari, the future is here and AI will make the choices to dictate the actions for the humans who have been currently patented and the many more soon to come.
[13:20] herman Bergson: Like a soldier on a battlefield
[13:20] Max Chatnoir: But if there is more than one way to respond, wouldn't free will come into it?
[13:21] Dings (dings.digital): I am not the Borg! :)
[13:22] herman Bergson: Only if you interpret free will as an other option than the fact that you always have to choose in every situation, Max
[13:22] herman Bergson: Resistance is futile, Dings
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:22] Dings (dings.digital): or like in Life of Brian "We are all different" "I am not" :))
[13:22] herman Bergson: That is a nice one :-))
[13:23] Dings (dings.digital): My choice is: no pineapple on my pizza. I am a rebel!
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah ㋡
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, i LOVE pinapple on pizza
[13:24] herman Bergson: As you see, within the physicalist space I still see room for a free will, a non deterministic existence
[13:24] Dings (dings.digital): :)))
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Hawaii is one of my fav classics
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but we are different al of us
[13:24] Dings (dings.digital): yes
[13:24] herman Bergson: I think we are digressing and have used all our fuell of today :-)
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Like another example my mom love the swedish thing called Surströmming while i regard the cans as chemical weapons
[13:25] Windows Bhalti: :)
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): phew
[13:26] Guestboook van tipjar stand: Dings Digital donated L$100. Thank you very much, it is much appreciated!
[13:26] herman Bergson: Conclusion you can be a non deterministic physicalist
[13:26] herman Bergson: Unless neuroscience will prove the contrary :-))
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:27] herman Bergson: Unless you still have that final question or remark......
[13:27] herman Bergson: May I think you for your participation again....
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:28] Dings (dings.digital): Thank you very much, Herman
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:28] herman Bergson: You are welcome Dings:-)
[13:28] Windows Bhalti: Thank you, Professor Bergson. Your presentation, as always, is greatly appreciated.
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: Yes, thanks for posing such interesting questions.
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:28] herman Bergson: thank you Windows
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