John Stuart Mill (1806–1873) was, during the middle third of the nineteenth century, the world’s leading economist and also arguably the world’s leading intellectual.
Mill's career unfolded as industrial capitalism was transforming British society, creating unprecedented wealth alongside glaring new social problems.
His work sought to reconcile the engine of economic growth with the ethical demands of a good society.
The key to understanding Mill is that he is the only leading economist in the history of economics to explicitly advocate the principle of the subordination of economics to broader social science.
To him, “economic truths,” while of great importance, were trumped for policy purposes by societal context.
Despite Mill’s deep respect for the internal logic of political economy and his insistence on its profound practical significance,
No one did more than he to denigrate the notion that classical political economy was a suitable guide to social policy when unaided by the insights of broader social science.
Accordingly, Mill often receives high praise from those who decry “economic imperialism” in social science, particularly with respect to public policy decisions.
This is a remarkable view, because you get the impression that in current politics, homo sapiens is replaced by homo economicus.
There is in politics a general attitude that if things go well economically, people will be happy, and socially, things go well. Everything is reduced to economics.
Healthcare, education, social welfare, and elderly care is always about the question of what it costs. I sometimes get the feeling that in a world of economic imperialism, we are just expense items.
There may be debate about Mill's contribution to the more techical economic theories, like his theories on value or international trade,
but few would deny that Mill’s deepest influence falls in the areas of the interplay between economics and broader social science.
Regarding his "Principles of Political Economy, whether for good or for ill, there is no doubt that Mill’s text was one of the most influential books of the last two centuries.
Mill had a reputation as an advocate for laissez-faire. However, his overall verdict on free-market capitalism was far from enthusiastic.
In fact, Mill was among the first of the major figures who, while fully recognizing the numerous virtues in free-market forces, ultimately held
that market forces also beget unacceptable drawbacks that, to be resolved, had to be addressed by government fiat.
A mixed economy in which the virtues of free market capitalism would be tempered and guided by the enlightened hand of government authority is, therefore, the logical implication of Mill’s system.
And that is still the eternal discussion in politics: where ends the free market and begins government guidance, and in particular, what are the arguments for the one and the other?
Thank you for your attention again...
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:14] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:15] herman Bergson: If you have any questions or remarks...feel free ㋡
[13:16] herman Bergson: I just was thinking....
[13:16] Korel Laloix: The line about "enlightened hand of government" comes across as almost sarcastic to me.
[13:17] herman Bergson: Time and again the performance of the American president is evaluated in the News programs...
[13:17] Korel Laloix: But then again, I am not good at sarcasm.
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well for now it feels like the billionaires are taking over, i saw some comment on YouTube that they want to kill everyone else on the planet off and then hoard all resources for themselves while sitting in a bunker somewhere, while we others burn
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): quite dystopian
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed we others are just a cost to them and lack value
[13:18] herman Bergson: Wait a minute... :-)
[13:18] Korel Laloix: That seems kind of a silly thought to me.
[13:18] Korel Laloix: They have to have us to make money.. ha
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its gotte out fo hand for sure, at least this AI craze is getting a huge backlash now
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it feels like somethig is changing, for the better finally
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they are few and we are may and as u said Herman, most people are ok
[13:18] herman Bergson: Just a minute Bejiita, please...
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): -on the good side
[13:19] Korel Laloix: From what I read, there was a backlash after home computers hit as well. Wonder if similar.
[13:19] herman Bergson: The prices of home computers and RAM chips have doubled in the last month or so...
[13:20] herman Bergson: But that was not my pont....
[13:20] herman Bergson: What I said was: Time and again the performance of the American president is evaluated in the News programs...
[13:20] herman Bergson: by the number of jobs created for instance
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm, indeed. Trump says as usual "EVERYTHING IS FINE" when the opposite is true
[13:22] herman Bergson: How would Mill read that? On the one hand it means productivity has increased.....on the other hand, unemployment is reduced....and that is a social issue...
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:23] herman Bergson: Mill puts economical issues within the field of society...He was also a moral philosopher....
[13:23] herman Bergson: So you can look at this fact of job growth in two ways...
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:24] herman Bergson: from an economical point of view...production and profits increase...and from a social point of view...unemployment decreases
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats true
[13:25] herman Bergson: And this broader view was introduced by Mill in the political and economical debate
[13:26] herman Bergson: He lived in an England where people lived in terrible poverty and were exploited in mass factories
[13:26] herman Bergson: while on the other hand a small class enriched itself
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes, the textile mills ect
[13:27] herman Bergson: So for him it was the question: what is a fair society?
[13:27] Korel Laloix: Marx wrote in such a situation as well?
[13:27] herman Bergson: And this question hasn't disappeared since ㋡
[13:27] herman Bergson: Exactly Korel....
[13:28] Korel Laloix: Marx was later though? I don't have a feel for the timeline.
[13:28] herman Bergson: He saw the same facts but approached it from a completely different perspective
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): this poverty is the near future of the US
[13:28] herman Bergson: YEs, Communist Manifest was from 1848
[13:28] Korel Laloix: OH OK.
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:29] herman Bergson: Mill died in 1873, so he may have read it
[13:29] Korel Laloix: Interesting.
[13:29] herman Bergson: Yes indeed...
[13:30] herman Bergson: I'll do some research on that....did Mill comment on the Manifest..? I do not yet know :-)
[13:32] herman Bergson: Answer: John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) and Karl Marx (1818-1883) were exact contemporaries, yet there is no evidence that Mill ever read or directly commented on Marx's work.
[13:32] herman Bergson: That is really interesting
[13:33] Korel Laloix: Wonder why.
[13:33] herman Bergson: Cognitive sissonance perhaps?
[13:33] herman Bergson: dissonance
[13:34] Korel Laloix: Or just did not know about him?
[13:34] herman Bergson: Mill was one of the leading figures in economic thought....maybe he didn't think much of Marx's ideas?
[13:34] Korel Laloix: European history is something about which I care very little, but this sounds like something I should know... laughs
[13:35] Korel Laloix: Back to RL for me... thanks for the presentation and chat all.
[13:35] herman Bergson: And why is that Korel?
[13:35] Korel Laloix: Just not my heritage...
[13:36] Korel Laloix: I care much more for the history of the Americas.
[13:36] herman Bergson: I see
[13:36] Korel Laloix: Take care all.
[13:36] herman Bergson: I do too and for Europena history too, for all those "Americans" are immigrants from Europe
[13:38] herman Bergson: Well, let's have a closer look at Mill's thoughts next Thursday....
[13:38] herman Bergson: Thank you all again...
[13:38] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting concepts indeed
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman, a bit difficult today but interesting
[13:39] herman Bergson: Oh, I am sorry Beertje...
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why?
[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: interesting again! ty Herman and class!
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well economics work i guess, as long as they dont spiral out of control
[13:39] herman Bergson: Throw it in Google Translate and it will become easier
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)))
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i need a bit time
[13:40] herman Bergson: I agree my English was somewhat more complex today
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no problem
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i just need some time
[13:40] herman Bergson: You're smart enough :-)
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
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