One of the weaknesses, and yet strengths, of human thought is that we like to categorize everything and, as it were, give it a certain organizational structure.
We discussed the strength of this narrative in the project on patterns. We learn to understand and control our reality by discovering patterns.
This is certainly true for our physical world. Although sociologists and psychologists do their utmost, they are only partially successful.
The biggest stumbling block here is that we tend to think binarily. That is, it's black or white, left or right, right or wrong. We love to approach our reality from that perspective.
And so we come to John Stuart Mill. His thoughts on economics are not dogmatic but move from liberalism through a gray area of nuance to new insights.
Mill writes in his Autobiography: "Their criticisms on the common doctrines of Liberalism seemed to me full of important truth;
and it was partly by their writings that my eyes were opened to the very limited and temporary value of the old political economy,
which assumes private property and inheritance as indefeasible facts, and freedom of production and exchange as the dernier mot [the last word] of social improvement."
We see here, emerging out of Mill’s intensive exposure to socialist writings and ideas, a utopian streak that would appear off-and-on, at odd moments, throughout his future writings.
A new context for viewing society was being formed in Mill’s mind. As the working classes become more educated
and as they become more mobile due to transportation improvements, it will prove impossible to prevent them from assuming a prominent place in determining the development of society.
Thus, the future of society depends greatly on whether the labouring classes “can be made rational beings” and are willing and able to support appropriate societal policies.
Mill is convinced that the labouring classes will rise to this challenge, both the men and the women.
Thus, we see how liberal thoughts evolve into socialist ideas. Not as either a liberal or socialist, but as an almost logical consequence of applying his initial principles to a new and evolving reality.
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:20] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.!
[13:21] Max Chatnoir: So if you educate the working class, they might start to get ambitious?
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:21] herman Bergson: That has actually happened in the past century. Max
[13:22] herman Bergson: Men and women have voting rights for instance
[13:22] Max Chatnoir: Yes, indeed! Do you think that is the cause of economic unrest? Darn workers are getting uppity?
[13:23] herman Bergson: Ambitious means for instance labor unions, Max
[13:24] herman Bergson: The current economic unrest is simply caused by an erratic governmet in the US
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): an unstable government
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: Why are they being erratic?
[13:26] herman Bergson: What is more interesting is how the reasozning of Mill almost logically moves from pure liberal to socialist views without this stupid black/white thinking
[13:27] Max Chatnoir: It's sort of logical.
[13:27] herman Bergson: erratic...maybe the wrong word...but what I mean is that there is no logic in it...tarrifs on, tarrifs off...and zo on
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: The consequence of education. If you encourage people to think they will start to want to invent stuff.
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: Why is this so threatening?
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thrue the years people have always invented things
[13:29] herman Bergson: They get an opinion of their own...
[13:29] herman Bergson: That is what counts
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: If competition is good, then why isn't everybody allowed to do it?
[13:30] herman Bergson: What do you mean, Max?
[13:30] herman Bergson: Who forbids competirion?
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: It's not that competition is forbidden. It's that it seems to be restricted.
[13:32] herman Bergson: By whom?
[13:32] Max Chatnoir: Suppose somebody on the production line has an idea about a different way to set it up.
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: Will it be possible to try it out or discuss it with the bosses?
[13:34] herman Bergson: I guess it will and they willl steal the innivative idea of the worker...
[13:34] herman Bergson: My son tolld me the same story...
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: Maybe that's the power of unions -- to give the workers a voice and opportunities to participate in the competition.
[13:35] herman Bergson: He had developed something special in AI and did a presentation...
[13:35] herman Bergson: And he said...well ok...the senior execs gonna show of with my idea...
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: They weren't going to credit him?
[13:36] herman Bergson: no...not really
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: Why not?
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: Well, what happeyed?
[13:37] herman Bergson: The answer is too obvious, Max
[13:37] Max Chatnoir: happened?
[13:37] Max Chatnoir: But the answer should not be too obvious....
[13:37] herman Bergson: But that is the power of unions...they can fight such situations
[13:38] herman Bergson: Answer, Max, self-interest of cours
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: What might a union do in that sort of situation?
[13:39] herman Bergson: Not much I guess, but in general it might defend intellectual ownership od a worker and sue a company for thieft...
[13:40] herman Bergson: I don't know
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if you sue a compagny for thieft you may loose your job
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: Did John Stuart Mill say anything about that possibility?
[13:41] herman Bergson: here we go Beertje...power against the powerless..therefore unions are created
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:42] herman Bergson: I don't know Max
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you can have all the rights at your sight, but the bosses can make it stressfull for you
[13:43] herman Bergson: Unfortunately sometimes it works like that indeed Beertje
[13:45] herman Bergson: But my son knows the drill...he presents innovativ ideas and the senior execs inth meeting show off with it
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Did he get rewarded at all?
[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what can he do about it?
[13:45] herman Bergson: He just gets his sallary :-))
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: Didn't get a nice raise or anything?
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): in the future he can tell them just half of his ideas...
[13:46] herman Bergson: It doen't wotrk like that here
[13:46] herman Bergson: That is an absolute meritocratic approach...
[13:47] herman Bergson: Makes individual people very competitive among each other
[13:48] herman Bergson: unhealthy HR style
[13:50] herman Bergson: Well...at least John Stuart Milll has shown us that there is a bridge between pure liberalis and socialism....
[13:50] herman Bergson: So much for today :-)
[13:50] herman Bergson: Thank you all again...
[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman amd class
[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
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