Before we go on with John Stuart Mill (1806 – 1873), we have already learned about David Ricardo (1772 – 1823), who pointed out the social consequences of the introduction of machinery in the production chain.
Keep in mind that we are at the start of the Industrial Revolution, which had an enormous impact on developments, socially and politically in England.
The observations of Ricardo are the same as how we experienced the introduction of computers or these days with the introduction of Artificial Intelligence.
In this context, I have to bring to your attention another economist and a reverend. His opinion about man wasn't so flattering. He held a grim view of humanity's ability to regulate itself.
His name is Thomas Robert Malthus (1766 – 1834), a British demographer, economist, and clergyman. He is known for his pessimistic but highly influential opinions.
In 1798, Malthus published the pamphlet "An Essay on the Principle of Population," in which he argued that population growth would outpace economic growth; based on a simple model, he predicted large-scale famine.
Population growth would be exponential, while food production would be linear. This became known as "the Malthusian ceiling", which describes the maximum population size relative to available land,
and "the Malthusian catastrophe," which describes the situation in which an overpopulated society restores itself to equilibrium through increased mortality.
Malthus believed that positive checks, the "natural" factors that keep the "human stock" in check, such as epidemics and war, were insufficient
to correct the exponential growth of population relative to the linear growth of food production.
Therefore, Malthus saw "moral restraint" as the only solution to overpopulation. He argued that poor people who knew they could not support a family should not start one.
This was not merely abstract theory. Malthus directed his argument at the English Poor Laws, which provided financial relief to the rural poor.
Such assistance, he claimed, only encouraged laborers to marry young and have large families, thereby increasing the very misery it sought to alleviate.
The implication was clear: poverty was not the fault of landlords, factory owners, or the new industrial system. It was the fault of the poor themselves.
In this way, Malthusianism provided a powerful moral justification for laissez-faire capitalism. If the market was left alone to set wages,
and if the state refused to subsidize the imprudent, the population would eventually regulate itself, through famine, disease, or, as Malthus preferred, the delayed marriage of the working class.
Following Thomas Malthus in the 19th century, it was the Club of Rome in the 1970s that sounded the alarm about the problem of overpopulation. However, the topic of overpopulation is hardly a topic in the mainstream media
While Malthus was concerned with the quantity of people relative to food, later economists and social critics would adapt his framework
to warn about the depletion of resources relative to industrial growth, a shift from Malthusian fears of hunger to modern concerns regarding the ecological footprint of capitalism.
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): did Malthus have children of his own?
[13:18] herman Bergson: I don't know..I even wonder if he was married.
[13:19] herman Bergson: But the interesting point is that he focuses on overpopulation...
[13:19] herman Bergson: But that the poor should be the ones who create this...?
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's easy to blame the poor
[13:20] herman Bergson: As he does...not the landowners of factory owners....
[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: Malthus had a son and two daughters
[13:20] herman Bergson: even though they keep wages as low as possible in thos days.
[13:20] bergfrau Apfelbaum: google - ai : Yes, Thomas Malthus (1766–1834) had a family. He married Harriet Eckersall at the age of 38, and they had three children. Despite his theories on population control, he was a family man himself. Sources indicate that he led a quiet family life
[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: we do live in the age of google
[13:21] herman Bergson: Nothing stays hidden :-)
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indedd
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:21] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-)
[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: what he preached though was that poor people did not have the right to children
[13:22] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:22] herman Bergson: If you can't support a family, then don't have children
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that was his statement innddeed
[13:24] herman Bergson: Nevertheless, climate change and depletion of resources is often in the news, but never the cause....too many peopleon this earth
[13:24] Stranger Nightfire: In one of his books Buckminster Fuller did a pretty good takedown of the modern Malthusians
[13:24] Stranger Nightfire: As we speak anywhere in the world where starvation You can be pretty sure there is a political reason for it
[13:24] herman Bergson: Tell us, Stranger
[13:25] Stranger Nightfire: Fuller just pointed out that enough food was being produced to feed everyone in the world
[13:25] herman Bergson: yes
[13:25] Stranger Nightfire: In fact a lot of food gets thrown away and wasted
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): true Stranger
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:26] Stranger Nightfire: Farmers or sometimes paid not to grow their crops
[13:27] herman Bergson: In 1805 there were 1 billion people on this earth, today there are almost 7 billion and there still is enough food for everyone
[13:28] Stranger Nightfire: Actually we're up to about 8 1/2 billion now
[13:28] herman Bergson: Well, I lost vcount, Stranger :-)
[13:28] Stranger Nightfire: And I suppose there has to be an upper limit of how many humans the planet can support
[13:29] Stranger Nightfire: But in many countries today actually consider it a problem that their populations are decreasing
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:29] herman Bergson: But how do we know that limit?
[13:30] herman Bergson: China made its mistake demographically with its one child politics...they are discovering its consequences now
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and they killed baby girls
[13:31] herman Bergson: So I heard
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): now they have to many boys
[13:32] bergfrau Apfelbaum: 😛
[13:32] Stranger Nightfire: I think you're thinking India where there is a problem with girls being killed or aborted
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no i'm thiknking China
[13:33] herman Bergson: It may happen in both countries
[13:33] Stranger Nightfire: I would like to see some documentation of that in China
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): google it:)
[13:33] Stranger Nightfire: Lots of negative propaganda gets spread about the Chinese
[13:35] herman Bergson: Female intanticide: The practice is most commonly reported in parts of East Asia, South Asia, and, to a lesser extent, the Caucasus and Western Balkans, with specific issues in China, India, and Pakistan.
Wikipedia
[13:36] herman Bergson: So, it seems to be even worse.
[13:38] herman Bergson: Due to Malthus, at least, we ask ourselves the question: when will this earth be overpopulated?
[13:38] herman Bergson: And then comes the sensitive question.....what should we do to prevent it?
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a little nife....
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): tech makes it possible to sustain more people for sure but
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): tricky
[13:41] herman Bergson: If you watch the mainstream media, overpopulation is not an interesting issue to report on
[13:41] herman Bergson: polution and climate change are
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's all connected together
[13:42] herman Bergson: yes but it is about the focus....
[13:42] Stranger Nightfire: well of course there is some realtionship between population and pollution
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wb Max
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): somehowe we at least need to get awai from fossil fuels, I saw just now Trump calling EUs climate report on CO2 a hoax as usual, "no connection to reality blablabla"
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sheesh
[13:43] herman Bergson: welcome back Max...abducted by aliens?
[13:44] herman Bergson: It wasn't Stranger :-)
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:45] herman Bergson: Ok, MAx left again...
[13:45] herman Bergson: Then we'll leave too :-)
[13:45] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for the discussion.
[13:45] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:46] herman Bergson: Max is fighting Star Wars, I guess
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa oo again Herman
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): goodd
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
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