The scene is now set for a new chapter. The year is 1850. A new economic theory emerges and eventually gets the title: "socialism". Of course, this line of thinking is closely related to Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.
Let's recall our basic question of this project: We want to know why capitalism has become the dominant economic system. And we can add the question: Why is socialism often so unpopular?
One of the reasons is, of course, the perceived failures of many 20th-century socialist states, which only seemed to confirm capitalist critiques of the system.
Let's begin with a definition: socialism is a social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources.
According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another.
Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it.
Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.
This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership of the means of production and allows individual choices in a free market to determine how goods and services are distributed.
Socialists complain that capitalism necessarily leads to unfair and exploitative concentrations of wealth and power in the hands of the relative few
who emerge victorious from free-market competition, people who then use their wealth and power to reinforce their dominance in society.
Because such people are rich, they may choose where and how to live, and their choices in turn limit the options of the poor.
As a result, terms such as individual freedom and equality of opportunity may be meaningful for capitalists but can only ring hollow for working people, who must do the capitalists’ bidding if they are to survive.
As socialists see it, true freedom and true equality require social control of the resources that provide the basis for prosperity in any society.
There are a few interesting issues, with which we'll deal in the coming lectures. In the first place, the fact that Karl Marx is not the primary creator of socialist thoughts,
and secondly the fact that economic thought has been part of moral philosophy and theology for centuries. Why was that? The answer, as we'll see, lies at the heart of the debate: it all concerns the position of private property.
Thank you for your attention again...
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im more socialist than capitalist for sure, esp now with this AI craze only serving to enrich the tech gigants
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we others cannot even have new computers anymore
[13:24] herman Bergson: At the heart of this matter lies the phenomenon: private property
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): things like that an more
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: I have a related question. Capitalism also seem to produce a class that can operate outside of the law without consequence. I would like to discuss that sometime. Not necessarility today.
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yea
[13:24] herman Bergson: Can you think of a reason why economic thought fell in the realm of moral philsophy and thology for centuries?
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well that is indeed true I say
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: Is getting rich a sign of moral superiority or favor with God?
[13:25] herman Bergson: Interesting point Max
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because greed is a primary human drive it seems i say at least for many
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): always been like this
[13:26] herman Bergson: There is some cult in the US that claims this indeed Max
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just wanting more more and more
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): n stop
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no
[13:27] herman Bergson: The rich can operate outside the law without consequence....
[13:27] herman Bergson: How to explain this.....
[13:27] herman Bergson: In fact the US has a president who made it his trade mark....
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: I would once have thought that the american legal system would not allow that to happy, but now I am beginning to wonder.
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: happen
[13:28] herman Bergson: Richness is power....
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed i saw really creepy things about trump and the epsteinn files the about ultra rich rapists and caibals secretly ruligg the world because they stand outside the law
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cannibals
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when i saw some of the images i just YEP that is how it is!
[13:28] herman Bergson: Let me give you an example of Trumpian tactics.....
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so much evil everywhere
[13:28] herman Bergson: please Bejiita...
[13:29] herman Bergson: Trump starts a building project and then he pays contractors not the full bill but only 85%....
[13:30] herman Bergson: Then the contractor says...I have to sue you for the remaining 15%....
[13:30] herman Bergson: Trump then always said OK (I have plenty of money to pay lawyers, you haven't so the suit wil bankrupt you.....:-)
[13:31] herman Bergson: So the contractor drops the law suit, for in deed he can't pay those legal bills
[13:31] herman Bergson: That was T's tactic
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: Still is, apparently.
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats how they do indeed
[13:32] herman Bergson: The rich have way more resources to fight in courts and thus delay and delay and delay....(another Trump Tactic)
[13:32] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hmmm... can the plaintiff not hope for a fair judge?
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: That's the question, Bergie!
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes, but he is obliged to follow the procedure...
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the judges are paid by trump
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trump just fires them and replace them with trump loyalists
[13:33] herman Bergson: no no BEERTJE...
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): = above the law
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even noone should be
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but money...
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): uuuh
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's what Bejiita said, he fires them and replace them
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ys
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its insane
[13:34] herman Bergson: POINT IS, WHEN THE PLAINTIF HAS A COMPLAINT, THE DEFENDENT CAN ENTER A MOTION, GO TO AN APPEAL COURT, ETC...TAKES YEARS AND LOTS OF MONEY
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said when u are rich the law dont apply to you it seems
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: and in the meantime, you are being thrown out of your house.
[13:35] bergfrau Apfelbaum: so, does that mean nobody is above T-Wappler?
[13:35] herman Bergson: The US system works steady but slowly
[13:35] herman Bergson: Trump is in great danger.....
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: There have been appeal courts that seem to be making judgments in accordance with the law.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Many lawsuits are dangling over his head...they just do't drop because he is president...
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump should have been in a padded cell 40 years ago already
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeedd reality seem finally to catch up
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope so
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes Max, and the moment Trump isn't president anymore...hell will break lose for him
[13:37] herman Bergson: He already is convicted but not yet sentenced
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i still dont get how someone like Trump can be let near white house even the first time
[13:38] herman Bergson: The rich have the power of their money
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: He was elected.
[13:38] herman Bergson: Indeed Max...simple as that
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still he was a criminal, but i guess there was no proof out yet
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yet, all what you see happening is a consequence of capitalism
[13:39] Max Chatnoir: Yes, some very rich people got behind him.
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): money talks
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ofcourse, they don't have to pay taxes
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: I'm afraid he is just a useful front for them.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: And I'm totally baffled by the inactivity of the congress.
[13:40] herman Bergson: I think kthere is a small rich ruling class in the US, but also in Europe and Asia and other places....
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): probably
[13:41] herman Bergson: I think, if you mean the Dems, Max, that they are waiting for the midterms and win majories in House ans Senate
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a bit like what i described before.
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ultra rich outside of the law secretly ruling the world
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i saw him speaking on television yesterday. te seemed to speak more quietly, he is getting older
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): are you sure that the Democrats wil win the midtermes?
[13:43] herman Bergson: There is a high probability, Beertje
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: Heck, I thought they could win the last election.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump does all he can to rig it i bet
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was even in the news a while ago about that
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: I'm not sure I can trust my own opinions.
[13:44] herman Bergson: That election was bought by Musk with 130 million dollars
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he will do it again
[13:44] herman Bergson: I hope not...
[13:45] herman Bergson: So far Reps have lst all local elections
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Well, I hope no single person has that much influence.
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he has money Max
[13:46] herman Bergson: Again a point against private property, Max
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i found the video i refered to before btw, beware , lots of creepy unsettlinng stuff, its epstein related
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_is29pkTsCU
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when i saw this i understood how bad things really was
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like YIKES
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: the members of the peacecouncil should oversee the elections..... fair elections are also part of peace 🌈
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aha
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: That peace council that Trump just put together?
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: Or some other group?
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the war council?
[13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shuddders)
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well some non evil and sane group at least
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): taking proper decissions
[13:49] herman Bergson: Bergie that Trump Peace counsil is filled with dictators anf autocrates
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as saidd, the war council
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): trump and peace are 2 diffrent things
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and he still want the peace price! duuuh
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): "ive stopped 8 wars now blablabla, why wounnd u give me the peace price!!"
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you can't get a peace prize on demand
[13:51] herman Bergson: We need to have patience
[13:51] herman Bergson: time will tell
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: If he could get the nuclear agreement with the Russians back in force, he might even deserve it.
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: It expired recently.
[13:52] bergfrau Apfelbaum: okay, then better not...... but surely there must still be some good people in positions of power somewhere
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he can't do that Max, he is the puppet on a string from Putin
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Beertje!
[13:52] herman Bergson: Enough about Trump, I'd say
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: Yes, didn't mean to get us sidetracked.
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well lets rig something else, like the card table, its more peaceful
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you think so Bejiita?
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but ineedd the fact remains
[13:53] herman Bergson: Wha we learned is that the rich have the unlimited resources to mainpulate law suits and delay them into infinity and bankrupt their plainfit
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: But we really do need a functional and fair economic system!
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true 100% herman
[13:54] herman Bergson: We'll discuss that in the coming lectures.Max, I promise ㋡
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :))
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: Yay!
[13:54] herman Bergson: Thank you all again.... again a nice talk...
[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman, intresting again:)
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok where to now?
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes another good and important one
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