It is not surprising that explicit socialist ideas and ideals emerged in the period of 1820 -1850. The Industrial Revolution is in full swing. Society is transforming from a primarily agricultural society to one of industrial mass production.
These changes also exacerbated the great social inequality, one of the key characteristics of capitalism.
This was certainly felt and ran counter to a sense of fairness and equality that people also harbor. There was resistance to the "sins" identified by Thomas More: pride, envy, and greed, which I mentioned in the previous lecture.
In this historical period, we see attempts to demonstrate that things could be done differently. Take, for example, Robert Owen (1771-1858).
Owen first attracted attention by operating textile mills in New Lanark in Scotland, which were both highly profitable and, by the standards of the day, remarkably humane: no children under age 10 were employed.
Owen’s fundamental belief was that human nature is not fixed but formed. If people are selfish, depraved, or vicious, it is because social conditions have made them so.
Change the conditions, he argued, and people will change; teach them to live and work together in harmony, and they will do so.
Thus, Owen set out in 1825 to establish a model of social organization, New Harmony, on land he had purchased in the U.S. state of Indiana.
This was to be a self-sufficient, cooperative community in which property was commonly owned. New Harmony failed, however, after a few years.
While Owen's was an early attempt, the impulse to create such communities continued throughout the 19th century.
Also in the Netherlands, we see an attempt to create a community where cooperation and equality had to be the standard.
Writer and psychiatrist Frederik van Eeden (1860–1932) is best known as an author. However, he was also an idealist. In 1898, he founded his own colony near Bussum: Walden.
This was intended to be a peaceful community where the socialist ideal was pursued. The utopian persevered for a long time, but Walden ultimately collapsed in 1907.
He is called a utopian, a name derived from the book "Utopia" (1516), written by Thomas More. However, in fact, Marx and his longtime friend and collaborator Friedrich Engels
were largely responsible for attaching the label “utopian,” which they intended to be derogatory, to Owen and other idealists, whose “fantastic pictures of future society” they contrasted to their own “scientific” approach to socialism.
Unlike Owen's focus on small, isolated communities, Marx's 'scientific socialism' analyzed the inevitable internal contradictions of capitalism itself,
arguing that change would come on a society-wide scale through class struggle, not through peaceful, cooperative examples.
The attempts to establish communities based on socialist principles proved generally unsustainable. Therefore, we must investigate how Karl Marx's scientific approach could offer a sustainable alternative.
Thank you for your attention..The floor is yours...
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why are those communities so unstable?
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: Yes, why did they fail?
[13:29] herman Bergson: Good question Beertje!
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indee
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): d
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:31] herman Bergson: What I know about Frederik van Eeden is, that in 1907 the bakers of the community left,, because all profits of the bread production were invested in the community and probably not in their wages
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they had to work harder then the other members?
[13:32] herman Bergson: Just remember the Flower Power period from the 70s...also a period were emerged lots of communes...all gone
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but we grew older and got other intrests
[13:33] herman Bergson: The peculiar thing is that all such attempts to create some kind of community based on mutual equality doesn't seem to be sustainable...
[13:34] herman Bergson: That makes me think of social animals....
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: Do they all run out of money or something like that?
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: Oh, Sorry!!
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
[13:34] herman Bergson: their group most of the time has a hierachical structure...
[13:35] herman Bergson: van Eeden did indeed Max
[13:35] herman Bergson: Only the bakery was profitable
[13:36] herman Bergson: Even chicken have a picking order...
[13:37] herman Bergson: So, absolute equality and no defined leader, all decide by vote, doesnt seem to work
[13:37] herman Bergson: What is quintessential in human nature???
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: Gotta have a boss to break the ties?
[13:38] herman Bergson: Sharing is one aspect...but not too much please ㋡
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so if you don't earn money you are no use for the group?
[13:38] herman Bergson: Seems so, Max
[13:38] herman Bergson: Anarchism never has worked
[13:39] herman Bergson: It appeared that money was the problem Beertje
[13:39] herman Bergson: I don't know the details
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: So in these communities, nobody worked outside of the community?
[13:40] herman Bergson: I don't think so, Max...they wanted to be self supporting
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: Did any of the communities try working with other communities?
[13:42] herman Bergson: So now it is up to Marx to tell us how socialism really works...
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's hard to be self supporting..there are year that it was too wet or to dry for crops to grow
[13:42] herman Bergson: and that create tensions in the group, Beertje, indeed
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there are always meembers in the group that know things always better, that create tentions too
[13:43] herman Bergson grins
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: So in an industrial society, communities aren't inclusive enough.
[13:44] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje...such a group experiment is not my thing at all, for instance
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): mine either:)
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): because I know better:))))
[13:44] herman Bergson: ㋡
[13:44] herman Bergson: I know :-)
[13:44] bergfrau Apfelbaum: lol
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:45] herman Bergson: Unfortunately we know history and the result of Marx's ideas....
[13:46] herman Bergson: But to some extend I give him some credit for the rise of socialist parties in our memocracies
[13:46] herman Bergson: democracies
[13:47] herman Bergson: for the political will to seriously look after the less fortunate and poor in society
[13:48] herman Bergson: So, vamos a Marx el proximo jueves :-)
[13:49] herman Bergson: Next Thursday is Marx on the menu ㋡
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: njam njam :-)
[13:49] herman Bergson: Then , I thank you all again ...
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again Herman!
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ...
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty Herman and class
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank yu Herman
